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15-10-2019, 08:41   #16
Niallof9
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Isn't the IRFU budget based on finishing minimum 3rd in the Six Nations each year? In which case I don't think Farrell has time to start major experiments with new players.





Much as it saddens me to say as a Connacht supporter, O'Halloran isn't at the level that test rugby demands (at the level we aspire to). He's also 29 in February.
Yes i'm aware of that, that's my point in a way, we'll just keep up this cycle of being **** at world cups (so far) if we don't stop with some of this nonsense. The public would give the IRFU and Farrell credit if he finished with a wooden spoon but had blooded guys like Larmour, Deegan, Penny, Tyler, Gibson Park, Thornberry or whoever. I certainly would.

If we do get beaten soundly in quarters, and on top of Japan i think Farrell is under serious pressure. He has been given much more responsibility since the announcement. He's not just a defence coach anymore.

My choice would have been don't announce the next coach and wait till the dust settle for the new appointment.

I think a poor World Cup will damage Irish rugby regardless and finishing third is the least of our concerns. A poor world cup is a defeat to Japan, poor v Russia and 13 plus defeat to the All Blacks (whom we clearly didn't want to face)

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15-10-2019, 09:00   #17
Sanjuro
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Still think Carberry is our best option at 15. But Larmour is coming along nicely. Addison has great potential and after that there's a couple of young lads who may step up. Jake Flannery? Sylvester from Leinster and possibly switching someone like Ringrose to fb.
Why would you switch the arguably best 13 in Ireland to full back?
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15-10-2019, 09:04   #18
Henry Ford III
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While I agree with parts of this, we need Rob Kearney. He is the best full back we have ever had, and we need him to mentor the next generation, guide them with positioning, communication etc. Do we play him all the time, no but don't just discard him.
He's old and thinks tackling is optional.

Time to move on.
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15-10-2019, 20:08   #19
Dravokivich
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He's old and thinks tackling is optional.

Time to move on.
Last time there was a lot of criticism this happened:

https://punditarena.com/rugby/thepat...-nine-seconds/

And more recently

https://mobile.twitter.com/murray_ki...21813843288066
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15-10-2019, 20:40   #20
The Lost Sheep
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While I agree with parts of this, we need Rob Kearney. He is the best full back we have ever had, and we need him to mentor the next generation, guide them with positioning, communication etc. Do we play him all the time, no but don't just discard him.
we dont if we are to look properly at 2023 and long term we dont need Kearney. He will be 34 at end of this season. We shouldn't be using him beyond this season. The next generation will benefit far more from playing with the guys that will be there in 3/4 years not Kearney who has a year or so left. We need to act differently to change behaviour especially if we do lose to New Zealand and doing the same as we've done before sint the right way to go about things
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15-10-2019, 21:03   #21
Neil3030
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We don't need to start changing the team (outside of retirement or injury) with the RWC in mind until the pools are drawn in two years time. Until then we may see Farrell begin to impose whatever tactical changes he may want on the team, but he'll be picking the strongest players to do this at a given moment, not the players he think will be peaking at the RWC.
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15-10-2019, 21:33   #22
The Lost Sheep
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We don't need to start changing the team (outside of retirement or injury) with the RWC in mind until the pools are drawn in two years time. Until then we may see Farrell begin to impose whatever tactical changes he may want on the team, but he'll be picking the strongest players to do this at a given moment, not the players he think will be peaking at the RWC.
maybe we do need to. Not like we've done it before. Far better chance to really look at others if you start further away from the tournament with dar greater ability to look at players, playing styles etc.
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15-10-2019, 21:47   #23
Shefwedfan
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Sort the FB position out, Conway - Larmour - TOH. I hope they all get a proper look in.
Kearney's on a further 1 year contract but I wouldn't let him darken the door of training sessions.

I'd love to see the likes of Deegan - Penney - Dorris get a go too.

Lots of scrum half options around too, I don't think McGrath is ahead of the likes of Cooney, Marmion, Blade and presumably Gibson-Park will be IQ soon too?

Overall though, I just hope there's more to this one many out static take and jog then flop to the floor.

Well FB is fairly easy. Conway is playing on the wing so isn't a FB and TOH is not even in the picture.

Larmour and Addison moving forward. Potentially Haley and Lowry as options.

Scrum Half is bigger issue, Murray for the moment but Cooney, McGrath, Marmion not really up to task for Blade and other options need to be looked at.
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15-10-2019, 22:12   #24
ClanofLams
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maybe we do need to. Not like we've done it before. Far better chance to really look at others if you start further away from the tournament with dar greater ability to look at players, playing styles etc.
I don’t really think so, there isn’t many in Ireland who haven’t gotten a chance over the last four years. Either way only a coach with serious credit in the bank would have the leeway to do that. Farrell can’t sacrifice results with some four year plan in mind because there’s a reasonable chance he wouldn’t be there in ‘23 if he did that.
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15-10-2019, 22:16   #25
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maybe we do need to. Not like we've done it before. Far better chance to really look at others if you start further away from the tournament with dar greater ability to look at players, playing styles etc.
Summer tours and Autumn internationals are generally the platform for coaches to do that, it's rare you'll see changes for the 6 Nations unless through injury or a player really stepping up at provincial level.

I'm willing to put money on posters moaning come 6 Nations time that Farrell has stuck with a lot of the current team and have expected an overhaul of the squad with young players.
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15-10-2019, 22:21   #26
touts
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Still think Carberry is our best option at 15. But Larmour is coming along nicely. Addison has great potential and after that there's a couple of young lads who may step up. Jake Flannery? Sylvester from Leinster and possibly switching someone like Ringrose to fb.
I actually suspect Sexton may well retire after this world cup. He has struggled with injuries and just doesn't seem to enjoy playing anymore which makes me think he is playing in pain. Plus he has a history with concussion that isn't exactly ideal. One more hard bang on his head and he could be forced into retirement. He may be sensible enough not to wait until that happens. So far from being an option at FB. Carberry could we'll be our first choice Number 10 by the six nation's in February.
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15-10-2019, 22:48   #27
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I don’t really think so, there isn’t many in Ireland who haven’t gotten a chance over the last four years. Either way only a coach with serious credit in the bank would have the leeway to do that. Farrell can’t sacrifice results with some four year plan in mind because there’s a reasonable chance he wouldn’t be there in ‘23 if he did that.
I dont see it happening but it would be great if we did try something different in a world cup assuming we dont win at the weekend. How much more would it be worth if we did go further in a world cup and didn't do as well in 1/2 6 nations??

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Summer tours and Autumn internationals are generally the platform for coaches to do that, it's rare you'll see changes for the 6 Nations unless through injury or a player really stepping up at provincial level.

I'm willing to put money on posters moaning come 6 Nations time that Farrell has stuck with a lot of the current team and have expected an overhaul of the squad with young players.
so just continue the exact same way when it's likely we'll have done the same as we've done in every world cup before hand.

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I actually suspect Sexton may well retire after this world cup. He has struggled with injuries and just doesn't seem to enjoy playing anymore which makes me think he is playing in pain. Plus he has a history with concussion that isn't exactly ideal. One more hard bang on his head and he could be forced into retirement. He may be sensible enough not to wait until that happens. So far from being an option at FB. Carberry could we'll be our first choice Number 10 by the six nation's in February.
as in straight after? No chance. And ridiculous to try claim he isnt enjoying playing. And the history with concussion is bit much to try say he has to retire.
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15-10-2019, 23:25   #28
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I dont see it happening but it would be great if we did try something different in a world cup assuming we dont win at the weekend. How much more would it be worth if we did go further in a world cup and didn't do as well in 1/2 6 nations??
Yeah I never see it happening to be honest given the pressure for results. It sounds good in theory but you could easily end up with a situation like this World Cup where Ireland are going to be facing one of the top teams regardless and having sacrificed a potential six nations.

Has any country ever done it? For all this talk of four year cycles I don’t recall first choice players being jettisoned because they wouldn’t make a tournament in four years time. Not saying it hasn’t happened, just wondering.

We’re also working off a fairly small sample size of world cups where Ireland have failed to get past last 8. Ireland just weren’t good enough until at least 2007 to reach that stage, it was close in ‘91 but that would have been a freak result. 2007 got tournament approach in terms of training all wrong obviously, 2015 freakish injuries and suspension, be hard to overcome no matter what your four year plan was.


Other countries are getting to semis and finals without doing anything radically different to Ireland it seems. There may not be anything really wrong with the current approach.
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16-10-2019, 07:50   #29
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4 years is way too long a timeframe to bother trying to actively plan for. It was, to a degree, tried with Jackson during this world cup cycle for example and look what happened. Obviously a slightly unique situation but with injuries, players moving abroad etc actively focusing on some kind of world cup cycle four years out is madness.
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16-10-2019, 07:58   #30
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I was thinking about this and was going to start thread but you beat me to it....

I see we have two options.
Option 1: Focus on the 6 nations. Play your best team each year to win the 6 nations. No 4 year plans or any of that s**t. Just win as many 6 nations as possible. If England and France are focused on WC then pick up the 6 nations trophies in the mean time. We have shown we can win them regular with Joe(3 in 6) and the Irish team did admit after the England game this year they gave up on 6 nations to focus on WC....

But we could just say feck it, our money maker is the 6 nations, its not like we have won many of them. Lets win as many as possible and just see how we end up at the WC.....

Option 2: Full 4 year plan. Pick the main squad now that will be at next WC, 40 odd players. Anyone old gets cut, thanks but we have to move on. Kearney, Sexton, Healy etc if they are not going to be around then off they go. Invest in young players. So if we think Harry Byrne will be in squad bring him in now. I know Joe does bring these players in and they get to practise but bring them in all the time. They are squad. You are going to lose 6 nations. Write them off and then hope that everything comes together in 4 years

My option would be 1. I think we can't get sucked into this 4 year cycle stuff. We haven't enough trophies to do it. Let just win as much as possible. France are looking at next WC already etc.
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