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01-05-2019, 09:54   #46
swiwi_
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I said it could be a headbutt, but much like the ref on the night I couldn't be completely sure and I'd want to hear from both players first.

I sure am generally biased towards my team but not to the point of lost objectivity. If newer footage is clearer then I'll consider that in the same light, but what I saw at the time wasn't clear cut enough for me to be sure.

I don't see what's unreasonable enough about that to warrant your previous post.
Have you watched the video a few posts up ?????

It's much closer than the intial video, and makes the headbutt as clear as day.
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01-05-2019, 10:14   #47
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So it's not reasonable to worry that if he is banned substantially mote playing for his province than any other Irish wingers, that that might happen one day in a green jersey? Right...

In fact, what you're saying is worse. If he can control himself in an international as well as anybody else, why the hell is he playing the cowboy at club level?
Substantially more!? When was he last banned and how many times in his career has he been banned. From recollection he received 2 bans in 2016 for a reckless high hit and a reckless stamp. Neither were malicious. I dont recall a ban since and have no recollection of any bans prior to that. If I'm wrong then by all means let me know, but having watched Ferg for 10 years now hes not someone I'd ever describe as dirty.
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01-05-2019, 10:24   #48
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If head butting is not considered dirty then what exactly would it take to describe a player as dirty?

My thoughts...
I'd not class a punch as dirty. Stupid yes, but not dirty.
Something like biting or gouging goes way beyond dirty.
Id have a head butt as the very definition of dirty.

Sorry but zero sympathy for him. Hope he gets a substantial ban. No place for that crap.
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01-05-2019, 10:30   #49
molloyjh
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If head butting is not considered dirty then what exactly would it take to describe a player as dirty?

My thoughts...
I'd not class a punch as dirty. Stupid yes, but not dirty.
Something like biting or gouging goes way beyond dirty.
Id have a head butt as the very definition of dirty.

Sorry but zero sympathy for him. Hope he gets a substantial ban. No place for that crap.
Let's be clear here, I'm not arguing against a ban or claiming it was anything other than a headbutt or anything remotely like that. I have no sympathy either. Seamus is claiming though that this is entirely within character for Ferg and he has always been a dirty player. This bit is simply not true. That Ferg has been suspended "substantially more" than any other winger is also not true.

A dirty act in and of itself does not make a dirty player. Heaslips knee to McCaws back was dirty. Hayes stamping on Cian Healys head was dirty. I doubt anyone would call either of those players dirty though.
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01-05-2019, 10:57   #50
AdamD
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Ferg loves a high tackle. Hardly ridiculous to call him dirty.
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01-05-2019, 11:00   #51
Buer
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Have you watched the video a few posts up ?????

It's much closer than the intial video, and makes the headbutt as clear as day.
When I first saw it on television, I could actually understand to a degree why Clancy didn't red card him (a yellow had to be given though). The footage wasn't great and he was watching on a screen a distance away. But that is pretty blatant.

He's done. He should take 6 weeks and be happy for it.

I get the impression that McFadden is raging against the dying of the light. He was always hard as nails and exceptionally combative but in the last 2 seasons, he has definitely allowed an element of foul play creep into his game. Where the hits were hard and fair early on, they've fallen on the illegal side more regularly in the past 2 years. There's an element of the game being tidied up which is a factor there too but he could have legitimately seen red twice in recent weeks and had no complaints for head on head contact both times.

Anyway, Ulster thread and all that jazz...who would win in a fight? Iain Henderson or a polar bear?
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01-05-2019, 11:02   #52
molloyjh
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Ferg loves a high tackle. Hardly ridiculous to call him dirty.
Really? How many more high tackles does he commit than others? How many of those are entirely accidental? He plays with a good deal of aggression, that sometimes means that when he gets it a bit wrong it has a greater impact. Thagt doesn't make him a dirty player. Plenty of players commit high tackles. Ringrose has been pinged for it a few times this season. Is he a dirty player too?

All that aside, it is ridiculous to say that headbutts are in character for him or to say that hes been banned "substantially more" than other wingers.
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01-05-2019, 11:02   #53
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A dirty act in and of itself does not make a dirty player. Heaslips knee to McCaws back was dirty. Hayes stamping on Cian Healys head was dirty. I doubt anyone would call either of those players dirty though.
Hayes was as filthy as he was overrated.
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01-05-2019, 11:04   #54
Paul Smeenus
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Substantially more!? When was he last banned and how many times in his career has he been banned. From recollection he received 2 bans in 2016 for a reckless high hit and a reckless stamp. Neither were malicious. I dont recall a ban since and have no recollection of any bans prior to that. If I'm wrong then by all means let me know, but having watched Ferg for 10 years now hes not someone I'd ever describe as dirty.

He's been banned for six weeks for foul play, not including anything that might come of this.

That's a month more than Earls has been banned, a month and a half more than Bowe was ever banned, a month and a half more than Trimble was ever banned, and a month and a half more than Gilroy has ever been banned. I think it's a month and a half more than Fitzgerald has been banned, and a month and a half more than Dave Kearney has ever been banned.It's a month and a half more than Stockdale has ever been banned, but that's hardly a fair comparison, given the stages they're at in their careers.

You are aware "more" is a term than necessitates relativism? Do I think those comparisons merit McFadden being described as being "substantially more" likely to be banned than any of those players? Yes, I 100% stand by "substantially more" (not withstanding three of them have retired...)

And why are we having this conversation? Because he's been cited again. Look at the figures and the facts. Being cited three times, for a winger, is A LOT. If he's banned, that'll be three bans, which, for a winger, is A LOT.

I'm talking about verifiable numbers, you're inside Fergus' head, saying you don't think his foul play can be described as "malicious", but "reckless".
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01-05-2019, 11:07   #55
Paul Smeenus
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Let's be clear here, I'm not arguing against a ban or claiming it was anything other than a headbutt or anything remotely like that. I have no sympathy either. Seamus is claiming though that this is entirely within character for Ferg and he has always been a dirty player. This bit is simply not true. That Ferg has been suspended "substantially more" than any other winger is also not true.

A dirty act in and of itself does not make a dirty player. Heaslips knee to McCaws back was dirty. Hayes stamping on Cian Healys head was dirty. I doubt anyone would call either of those players dirty though.
I've offered, I think, fairly comprehensive comparative numbers in my previous post.

If I'm wrong, it should be eminently, objectively provable.
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01-05-2019, 11:12   #56
swiwi_
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Anyway, Ulster thread and all that jazz...who would win in a fight? Iain Henderson or a polar bear?
Henderson. Although James Ryan would take down the bear blindfolded without breaking a sweat. Munster fans would claim Beirne would be even better, but he seems to do better against provincial bears and struggles a bit against international ones.
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01-05-2019, 11:17   #57
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Henderson. Although James Ryan would take down the bear blindfolded without breaking a sweat. Munster fans would claim Beirne would be even better, but he seems to do better against provincial bears and struggles a bit against international ones.
Beirne wouldn't have the size to compete at the level of international polar bears, he'll be shown up.
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01-05-2019, 11:21   #58
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This is getting ridiculous. He'll have been banned 3 times in over 200 professional appearances. You can try and spin it any way you want, but you're clearly having a massive overreaction to this. His ban ratio would be far better than Balacounes (if I were to get similarly ridiculous), so I'm assuming you'll be keeping a close eye on him to make sure he behaves, right? 3 in > 200 is less than 1.5% whereas 1 from 12 is over 8%.
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01-05-2019, 11:21   #59
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Beirne wouldn't have the size to compete at the level of international polar bears, he'll be shown up.
I think you guys are underestimating the unseen anti-polar bear work that Devin Toner does.
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01-05-2019, 11:30   #60
Paul Smeenus
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This is getting ridiculous. He'll have been banned 3 times in over 200 professional appearances. You can try and spin it any way you want, but you're clearly having a massive overreaction to this. His ban ratio would be far better than Balacounes (if I were to get similarly ridiculous), so I'm assuming you'll be keeping a close eye on him to make sure he behaves, right? 3 in > 200 is less than 1.5% whereas 1 from 12 is over 8%.
I don't think I'm the one overreacting. This started because I said I had misgivings about Ferg for the international team. Balacoune is nowhere near the international team.

(I also had quite a detailed post above where I talked about the difference I saw between reds and bans from taking players out in the air, and tip tackles, and "dirty play". But that's neither here nor there, really. I don't want to start an endless argument about that.)

Look, I don't care. I think McFadden has become a dirty player, and if you disagree, fine. As long as he's not wearing green, it's Leinster's problem.

But I notice you've dropped your hysteria about the phrase "substantially more".
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