Google Stadia

Venom · 06-06-2019 8:16pm

glasso wrote: »

pricing seems reasonable enough also.

I dunno, 9.99 monthly sub + price of game + price of internet connection + cost of going over any download cap you might have + cost of controller and chromecast if you want to play on a TV, could add up to a fair bit of change per year!

AlmightyCushion · 06-06-2019 8:29pm

Venom wrote: »

I dunno, 9.99 monthly sub + price of game + price of internet connection + cost of going over any download cap you might have + cost of controller and chromecast if you want to play on a TV, could add up to a fair bit of change per year!

You only need to pay the monthly sub for 4k. For 1080p it's free. You have pay for the game and broadband anyways so no additional cost there. Most providers don't have caps now so for most people no change here either. You don't need a Chromecast for it so no extra charge there and I think you can use an Xbox or PS4 controller for it.

So, for 1080p you won't spend anything extra than you currently do to play a game.

06-06-2019 9:03pm

I have concerns over latency. I think it will be an issue for anyone accustomed to gaming on PC or console. For people coming from mobile gaming - controlling via a touch screen or playing those tilt-screen games etc ... i'm sure they will not notice latency issues.

I also have concerns over picture quality. Realtime lossy encoding at the kind of bitrates they are talking about incurs a very noticeable quality loss. Particularly with high frequency detail, particle effects, smoke etc. Again, the very casual crowd will perhaps not notice.

My understanding is that only a small selection of (mostly older) games will be free to play for subscribers. Most new AAA games will be a full-price purchase. I have concerns over game ownership and the longevity of the service. Google have a reputation for shutting products down. Okay...this is a concern with any digital purchase. It is more of a concern with Stadia because:
a) They are more likely to shut it down imo
b) A shutdown would result in full and instant revokation of owernship. If Playstation Store shut down tomorrow I at least have my digital purchases on the console until it fails

Regarding the 'free' 1080p version. It would not be financially viable for them to allow freeloaders to play a game for eternity in exchange for a one-time purchase (of which they only get a cut). So they will do something to generate revenue from you, or encourage you to upgrade. If you are a freeloader I expect they will give you a low quality game instance and a low quality video stream (resolution is not a measure of quality). And pause the game frequently to bombard you with adverts.

marcbrophy · 06-06-2019 10:56pm

So the Founders edition has a 4k Chromecast Ultra and a Stadia controller!
Do I need the CC Ultra if I already have a 4k Android TV with built in casting?
Is it just overkill?

If I can get away with just getting the controller and the Pro pass, that'd be better for me

Also have an Nvidia shield that I'm sure will have a supported app come release

Robert ninja · 06-06-2019 11:49pm

This might only be good for internet cafes or something and for countries with good internet.

AlmightyCushion · 07-06-2019 12:08am

Robert ninja wrote: »

This might only be good for internet cafes or something and for countries with good internet.

The same thing was said about Netflix years ago and now everyone and their dog has a Netflix subscription here.

Virgin Media have about 400,000 customers here. There are plenty that can get Virgin but choose not too as well. Their broadband is more than good enough. Then add up all the people who have access to SIRO, EIR fibre or EIR VDSL with a decent speeds which is a lot more. Plus, all the above are expanding their networks.

Sure some people here can only get crap broadband or no broadband at all but there are a lot of people with access to good broadband, that is good enough for this.

EoinHef · 07-06-2019 12:13am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Virgin Media have about 400,000 customers here. There are plenty that can get Virgin but choose not too as well. Their broadband is more than good enough. Then add up all the people who have access to SIRO, EIR fibre or EIR VDSL with a decent speeds which is a lot more.

Sure some people here can only get crap broadband or no broadband at all but there are a lot of people with access to good broadband, that is more than sufficient for this.

Its not only your broadband,its the location of the server your connecting too.

PCGamer saying gaming at 4k on stadia for 65hrs uses one terabyte of data.

That may be enough to start boardering on ISP's fair usage policy.

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/stadia-4k-streaming-will-use-up-1tb-of-data-in-65-hours/

AlmightyCushion · 07-06-2019 12:35am

EoinHef wrote: »

Its not only your broadband,its the location of the server your connecting too.

PCGamer saying gaming at 4k on stadia for 65hrs uses one terabyte of data.

That may be enough to start boardering on ISP's fair usage policy.

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/stadia-4k-streaming-will-use-up-1tb-of-data-in-65-hours/

Google have data centres here in Dublin.

That data usage would be lower if you drop the quality and don't have 5.1 audio (I assume you can disable that). So yeah worse case scenario you're looking at 15GB an hour. But it can be a lot less and I know plenty of people who game who don't have 4K TVs or surround sound. So, for those people the usage will be a lot lower. Not to mention Netflix uses a lot of data too (not as much sure) but still about 8GB an hour for 4K.

I know Virgin don't have caps any more. I'm pretty sure I read that Eir got rid of them too. Not sure about Siro.

The same arguments were made when Netflix came out and look at streaming video now. Loads of companies are launching streaming services now.

marcbrophy · 07-06-2019 12:44am

The only server you need to ping is googles data centre in Dublin. As long as you can ping Dublin, you're laughing.
I can ping a Dublin server from Limerick is 15ms, that's a 30ms round trip, quicker than the lag on modern TVs when not using a gaming mode, that can be up to 200ms! Or the lag of using a wireless controller is 40 to 50ms

Seriously, stop worrying about lag! Google's got you covered

PS: I take no responsibility it it turns out to be a laggy mess :pac:

EoinHef · 07-06-2019 2:13am

Sounds like you boys are sold already,ill not try convince you other wise.

At this stage no one here actually knows how well it will run in ireland so i guess we'll just see when it comes out.

I just find it strange that givin the history of streaming services that people are quite quick to believe the hype. It could turn out to be perfectly accurate but ill be waiting to see how it actually runs before i say it wont have the issues other streaming services have.

Robert ninja · 07-06-2019 2:57am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The same thing was said about Netflix years ago and now everyone and their dog has a Netflix subscription here.

Very different service. Passive media doesn't need to sync well. It can buffer, cache and preload things it thinks you're going to view next. Gaming is highly dynamic and full duplex when multiplayer or streamed. Latency issues kill it for consumers like me.
I completely skipped video streaming services I couldn't find any movie I wanted to watch on netflix. They're browsing service that suggest what to watch. That is absolutely not how I consume video games or most media. I usually know exactly what I want and I'm willing to hunt obscure engine re-implementations, mods and edit configuration files to make it play exactly how I expected it to. (FOVs are abysmal these days and some games can't even unlock the FPS).

If you think this service is appealing to you in the same way netflix is then I think it's probably further suggesting I'll never touch it.
Not trying to turn you off it btw just explaining my own aversions to it.Most new google products are duds and even if the technology & ISPs eventually get perfect with video game streaming I don't think the business model ever will. I'm already frustrated enough with "games as a service" and DRM malarkey.

AlmightyCushion · 07-06-2019 9:17am

Robert ninja wrote: »

Very different service. Passive media doesn't need to sync well. It can buffer, cache and preload things it thinks you're going to view next. Gaming is highly dynamic and full duplex when multiplayer or streamed. Latency issues kill it for consumers like me.
I completely skipped video streaming services I couldn't find any movie I wanted to watch on netflix. They're browsing service that suggest what to watch. That is absolutely not how I consume video games or most media. I usually know exactly what I want and I'm willing to hunt obscure engine re-implementations, mods and edit configuration files to make it play exactly how I expected it to. (FOVs are abysmal these days and some games can't even unlock the FPS).

If you think this service is appealing to you in the same way netflix is then I think it's probably further suggesting I'll never touch it.
Not trying to turn you off it btw just explaining my own aversions to it.Most new google products are duds and even if the technology & ISPs eventually get perfect with video game streaming I don't think the business model ever will. I'm already frustrated enough with "games as a service" and DRM malarkey.

I actually prefer pc gaming over this and I probably won't use it outside of a bit of pricking about with it to see what it's like for similar reasons to you. It's an interesting technology though. However, just because it doesn't suit your particular use case doesn't mean it won't work. Consoles don't and they work fine for lots of people. Streaming will never be as good as having a dedicated pc on your desk but it doesn't have to be for it to work for most people. Hell, I know plenty of people who play first person shooters on their phones with touch screen controls. I'd rather get hit on the face with a brick than do that but for some people it's fine.

As for the latency and syncing issues. This is Google, they know that. They have days centres here in Ireland, if you have good broadband (Virgin, Siro, Eir fibre, Eir VDSL and others) then you will have good ping times to Google's data centre.

Vicxas · 07-06-2019 9:20am

Im confused, when you get the sub does that mean you get to play the games or do you need to buy them to stream them?

Mickeroo · 07-06-2019 9:28am

Vicxas wrote: »

Im confused, when you get the sub does that mean you get to play the games or do you need to buy them to stream them?

You can play some games I think, for a brand new game you will still need to buy it. Think of it like on amazon prime you have the stuff you can stream with your sub but you can also pay a premium to stream brand new films.

That's my reading of it anyway, could be wrong.

I also think it's free if you're happy with 1080p, the sub is only for 4k/60fps content....

AlmightyCushion · 07-06-2019 10:35am

Vicxas wrote: »

Im confused, when you get the sub does that mean you get to play the games or do you need to buy them to stream them?

Most games you will need to buy, there will be some free ones on there though (not sure if the sub will be required for the free games, I don't think it is). The sub is neccessary for 4K though. 1080P is free.

marcbrophy · 07-06-2019 10:37am

EoinHef wrote: »

Sounds like you boys are sold already,ill not try convince you other wise.

At this stage no one here actually knows how well it will run in ireland so i guess we'll just see when it comes out.

I just find it strange that givin the history of streaming services that people are quite quick to believe the hype. It could turn out to be perfectly accurate but ill be waiting to see how it actually runs before i say it wont have the issues other streaming services have.

Optimistic, more than convinced, is what I'd say Eoin

Yeah, I'm also 10% really worried it'll be a huge pile...

None of those companies had the infrastructure that Google has! Not even a fraction of it. The tech has been explained and the fact that you'll be connecting to a local Google node, not a underpowered server in the middle of Europe or USA is why I have faith! Your connection never leaves the island! Should be practically synchronous. I'm very excited haha!

Mickeroo · 07-06-2019 10:41am

I'm hoping MS will come out swinging with XCloud on Sunday now too, they also have the infrastructure to back it up and it's also in Ireland so we could be spoiled for choice if both of them manage a decent service.

AlmightyCushion · 07-06-2019 10:54am

Mickeroo wrote: »

I'm hoping MS will come out swinging with XCloud on Sunday now too, they also have the infrastructure to back it up and it's also in Ireland so we could be spoiled for choice if both of them manage a decent service.

Microsoft really are in the best position to do game streaming right and make it a success. They have the infrastructure and financial clout needed to make it work like Google have but they have experience with gaming too.

marcbrophy · 07-06-2019 10:57am

Mickeroo wrote: »

I'm hoping MS will come out swinging with XCloud on Sunday now too, they also have the infrastructure to back it up and it's also in Ireland so we could be spoiled for choice if both of them manage a decent service.

2 reasons I'm hoping for this myself!

1: I've a pretty full library, including gamepass sub, that I wouldn't mind making portable.
2: If the MS offering is in anyway sub par, it'll kill off Stadia by proxy in the mind set of most. And that'll be the end of this wave of streaming platforms

earthwormjack · 07-06-2019 10:58am

Vicxas wrote: »

Im confused, when you get the sub does that mean you get to play the games or do you need to buy them to stream them?

You buy them separately. The only game included so far is Destiny 2. More and more games will be added over time to the €10 sub is how I understood it.

TheIrishGrover · 07-06-2019 3:32pm

As for the "free" games/paid for games. Think of PS/Microsoft's paid subscription. You'll get some mid-tier games from last year, probably. But then you'll have to pay for your brand-new games.

I've ordered it out of curiosity. Will see how it goes. Here in Ireland we are probably in one of the best positions to play it (Which is why we are a launch country I suppose. In the cities we have decent broadband and some of their datacenters are based here in Ireland.

But yeah, I'd say their biggest competition, if it takes off, is going to be Microsoft. With their Azure North and Azure West virtualisation server farms in Dublin and the Netherlands they will certainly have the infrastructure.

This has been threatening for a long time. To be honest, I don't think we are 100% there yet. Many people don't have reliable 35Mbps broadband. I still believe latency will be an issue and they are gonna have to work VERY hard to keep up with demand. Imagine what will happen when the next (good) Bungie shooter comes out. I know everyone is harping on about the latency-free/gigabit speed of 5G but that will be some time in coming and even longer outside of urban areas (Signal range is very tight)

But, they are using their own farms, giving themselves priority (MS & Google) so, if it can be done, then these are the people who have the expertise and infrastructure to do it.

Edit: Yeah, subscription is 9.99 Euro a month

RasTa · 07-06-2019 5:21pm

Venom wrote: »

I dunno, 9.99 monthly sub + price of game + price of internet connection + cost of going over any download cap you might have + cost of controller and chromecast if you want to play on a TV, could add up to a fair bit of change per year!

You forgot to add the cost of electricity

marcbrophy · 07-06-2019 6:48pm

marcbrophy wrote: »

So the Founders edition has a 4k Chromecast Ultra and a Stadia controller!
Do I need the CC Ultra if I already have a 4k Android TV with built in casting?
Is it just overkill?

If I can get away with just getting the controller and the Pro pass, that'd be better for me

Also have an Nvidia shield that I'm sure will have a supported app come release

The answer to my own question is probably not!

https://www.androidheadlines.com/2019/06/no-android-tv-stadia-support.html

Looks like a CC Ultra will still be needed for that 4k60 at launch!
Might change in the future though

DopeTech · 08-06-2019 7:17am

This statement is a little worrying as many broadband plans have a 1TB FUP

"If you plan to use it a lot and don't have an unlimited data plan, you'll want to exercise caution. Even with a 1TB data plan (which is what I have from Comcast), that's 65 hours of streaming per month at 4K. And that's assuming I don't do anything else on the internet. At 1080p60, it comes to 113 hours of streaming per month, assuming no other data usage."

Source: www.pcgamer.com/amp/stadia-4k-streaming-will-use-up-1tb-of-data-in-65-hours

08-06-2019 7:49am

Sir Dosser wrote: »

This statement is a little worrying as many broadband plans have a 1TB FUP

"If you plan to use it a lot and don't have an unlimited data plan, you'll want to exercise caution. Even with a 1TB data plan (which is what I have from Comcast), that's 65 hours of streaming per month at 4K. And that's assuming I don't do anything else on the internet. At 1080p60, it comes to 113 hours of streaming per month, assuming no other data usage."

Source: www.pcgamer.com/amp/stadia-4k-streaming-will-use-up-1tb-of-data-in-65-hours

They can hardly enforce that if all you are doing is streaming games, Netflix, spotify etc and some regulat browsing. Sure that's what the service is for, they are going to have to adapt their FUPs. The problem will be for people who also "download" media as that is what will be used against you.

Mickeroo · 08-06-2019 7:52am

Eir and Vodafone have stopped enforcing that as far I know. Not sure about the others.

super_furry · 08-06-2019 9:29am

Never once heard anything from Virgin and I'd regularly hit 3 to 5 tb a month.

DopeTech · 08-06-2019 11:51am

Mickeroo wrote: »

Eir and Vodafone have stopped enforcing that as far I know. Not sure about the others.

Are you sure? It's still in the terms and conditions that if you exceed you will be charged not may be.

Shiminay · 08-06-2019 12:52pm

It won't take them long to start enforcing fair use policies when the average house starts consuming a terabyte of data every month

I can't imagine the average household goes over 10-15GB at the moment.

DopeTech · 08-06-2019 12:55pm

Shiminay wrote: »

It won't take them long to start enforcing fair use policies when the average house starts consuming a terabyte of data every month I can't imagine the average household goes over 10-15GB at the moment.

I average out around 500GB a month but that's alot to do with IPTV. To add another TB on top might be pushing it for an eir connection.

Google Stadia

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