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16-01-2019, 20:22   #61
electro~bitch
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Originally Posted by gozunda View Post
Unearthly like it or otherwise - I'm not having an argument with ya. This is a discussion board. You can think of yourself as "right" all you like - whatever that's worth ...

Btw there's is a difference in saying and calling someone a hypocrite - but you already know that.

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Like I could say "oh my god the wrongness of these posts, the inability in these posts to admit to having made a mistake", but it doesn't mean I'm saying those things about you? Cool!

Yeah veganism is definitely on the up, it seems pretty consistently. It's hit a sweet spot with a generation that is very interested in environmentalism, ethical consumerism and health, and thank goodness that time has come!

I'm vegetarian since 1989, closer to vegan these days and I'm in HEAVEN the last few years with all the nice things to eat, not having to worry about going out to eat with a group and not getting constantly preached at. One of the most common things you'd get "Sure what's the point, you're not making any difference". HA!

I'm honestly not sure about those vegan world billboards tbh, part of me thinks it's some black op thing by the meat industry. I have never seen a positive reaction to them by anyone who's not already a vegan, and I've seen so many negative ones. They're tone deaf altogether.
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16-01-2019, 20:26   #62
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I think the billboards aren't the best either, they just rile people up, there are better more effective things and less divisive things they could say imo. Only advantage is that I've heard people talking about them for a couple of years now. I think a lot of vegan people forget what it is like to not be vegan, and can't take people's mindset into account.
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16-01-2019, 20:28   #63
gozunda
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Fast food products ? Not exactly a good base for a healthy diet imo
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16-01-2019, 20:41   #64
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Like I could say "oh my god the wrongness of these posts, the inability in these posts to admit to having made a mistake", but it doesn't mean I'm saying those things about you? Cool!
Yeah veganism is definitely on the up, it seems pretty consistently. It's hit a sweet spot with a generation that is very interested in environmentalism, ethical consumerism and health, and thank goodness that time has come!
I'm vegetarian since 1989, closer to vegan these days and I'm in HEAVEN the last few years with all the nice things to eat, not having to worry about going out to eat with a group and not getting constantly preached at. One of the most common things you'd get "Sure what's the point, you're not making any difference". HA!
I'm honestly not sure about those vegan world billboards tbh, part of me thinks it's some black op thing by the meat industry. I have never seen a positive reaction to them by anyone who's not already a vegan, and I've seen so many negative ones. They're tone deaf altogether.
It's clearly stating that no one is willing to risk getting thread banned because someone or other wants to selectively quote or derail a specific topic. But no matter.

This generation of millennials or others are far from the first or only generation to have serious had thought or consideration for "environmentalism, ethical consumerism and health"

The environmental movement especially long predates the vagaries of the current vegan movement and imo it's hijacking by same. I was there first time around. Ditto health and ethical consumerism.

The unfortunate preaching re billboards etc which I'm seeing is coming primarily from a small number of extreme adherents . Much of it is in my experience misinformed or in your face and fails to promote veganism, but rather is out to attack. I think that is a big mistake tbh.

Last edited by gozunda; 16-01-2019 at 23:57.
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17-01-2019, 18:10   #65
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Fast food products ? Not exactly a good base for a healthy diet imo
For the fast food outlets, they're all about money, not health.

They know that no self respecting vegan will enter their shop and most vegetarians also unless dragged in by their drunken friends after a night out.

I think it's probably more aimed at carnivores like me (I don't frequent fast food outlets in the main) encouraging them to be "healthy" once in a while and getting in on the "vegan/vegy fad" - you can bet next months pay check that they've crunched their numbers and are making a ton of money out of the whole thing.

M&S is more about encouraging the vegan dollar into their stores - i.e. customers who wouldn't normally shop there- it's all about business and profit.
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18-01-2019, 14:09   #66
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Fast food products ? Not exactly a good base for a healthy diet imo
Clearly not but junk food every now and then is fine as a treat. You seemed to miss the point of that tweet.
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18-01-2019, 18:32   #67
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Clearly not but junk food every now and then is fine as a treat. You seemed to miss the point of that tweet.
I believe the text accompanying the list stated
"So tell me again how vegans won't make a difference?"

And I pointed out it was just a list of fast (junk) food. Ie how does that make a difference? - Fast food is fast food at the end of the day. The World Health Organisation advocates against eating same - detailing how eating such foods may lead to obesity and poor health.

I'd agree with the treat bit - but humans being humans will often eat this stuff way more than is healthy or recommended. Whether vegan or otherwise. Not something to be blowing about tbh.

Last edited by gozunda; 18-01-2019 at 18:36.
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19-01-2019, 12:46   #68
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Enough people being vegan led to large companies offering vegan options making it easier to be vegan possibly leading to more people being vegan leading to more vegan options and so on. The growing number of vegan customers and their expression of the gap in the market not being met has led to a volume of deliberately, specifically vegan options available that would have been total pie in the sky stuff ten years ago.

It's nothing to do with obesity or healthy eating.
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20-01-2019, 01:52   #69
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So say the big fast food companies and multinationals. Aye.

Last edited by gozunda; 20-01-2019 at 05:04.
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22-01-2019, 12:59   #70
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First time poster here, I’ve a background in energy and farming, not a vegan but if have no problem with veganism, if that’s right word. I would however disagree on animal cruelty for example.

I see environmental issues being cited here as a reason for going vegan or maybe just as a coincidental side effect.

Emissions is probably the biggest issue facing the farming sector in Ireland. But replacing beef with a vegan substitute is surely just moving the environmental issue? Irish beef is transported from farm to fork, say max 200km, it’s carbon foot print is tiny. Comparing it to a vegan subsitute and there’s no comparison.

To me it’s akin to biomass burners in the energy sector. Great in theory where you can supply local biomass but in Ireland we’ve to import it from South America, on a ship. You’re not quite better off burning turf but you’re not far off it.

I suppose my point is the environmental effects have to be looked at in the round and not as isolated elements
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22-01-2019, 15:04   #71
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I see environmental issues being cited here as a reason for going vegan or maybe just as a coincidental side effect
It’s a very sound reason providing you make the right choices.

As a for instance, detractors routinely and tiresomely bring up destruction of the rainforests in order to plant soya as being a consequence of the spread of veganism, when the truth is American soy goes to feed cattle.

An environmental vegan, if she wants soya, should source European products, which often have the advantage of being organic too. It’s a case of educuating oneself.

So yes, buy Irish/Eu to help reduce emissions.
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22-01-2019, 19:13   #72
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It’s a very sound reason providing you make the right choices.

As a for instance, detractors routinely and tiresomely bring up destruction of the rainforests in order to plant soya as being a consequence of the spread of veganism, when the truth is American soy goes to feed cattle.

An environmental vegan, if she wants soya, should source European products, which often have the advantage of being organic too. It’s a case of educuating oneself.

So yes, buy Irish/Eu to help reduce emissions.
And that is a miss and not the 'truth' by a wide margin. The soya fed to livestock are the left overs of processing of soya beans for soya oil -
largely used in the manufacture of highly processed human foodstuffs.

If I had a euro for each time I've seen the same rubbish trotted out I'd be retired at this point. Soya oil and its by-product soya meal contaminate a huge range of foodstuffs of both vegan and regular diets. It is in bread, it is in processed foods, in sauces, in snacks, in chocolate, you name it - it's being used as an ubiquitous cheap and imo a nasty filler. And yes this use of soya it is implicated in the destruction of rainforests.

It is this type of misinformation which genuinely turns me off from ever considering veganism as a genuine effort to improve or help the environment.

Yes buy local, buy Irish whatever diet you choose, because every air mile added to the food we eat means that the greenhouse gases from fossil fuels and transport continue to increase and that is the truth.

Last edited by gozunda; 22-01-2019 at 21:06.
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22-01-2019, 19:34   #73
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Originally Posted by davidjtaylor View Post
It’s a very sound reason providing you make the right choices.

As a for instance, detractors routinely and tiresomely bring up destruction of the rainforests in order to plant soya as being a consequence of the spread of veganism, when the truth is American soy goes to feed cattle.

An environmental vegan, if she wants soya, should source European products, which often have the advantage of being organic too. It’s a case of educuating oneself.

So yes, buy Irish/Eu to help reduce emissions.
Organic offers no health advantages and i would assume from an enviormental standpoint is a less efficient method of crop production.

If you are concerned about the enviorment you shouldn't go "organic".
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22-01-2019, 20:26   #74
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Organic offers no health advantages and i would assume from an enviormental standpoint is a less efficient method of crop production.

If you are concerned about the enviorment you shouldn't go "organic".
jh79, you’re quite welcome to ingest human-made chemicals, be my guest.

I want the choice to not ingest them, as well as at the same time support local jobs and not some distant agro-pharma.
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22-01-2019, 20:38   #75
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jh79, you’re quite welcome to ingest human-made chemicals, be my guest.

I want the choice to not ingest them, as well as at the same time support local jobs and not some distant agro-pharma.
Just pointing out the misconception that organic offers any benefits from a health perspective and you can still support local producers without going Organic.
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