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30-09-2018, 19:44   #16
Tilikum17
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Another few...
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30-09-2018, 20:08   #17
gozunda
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Originally Posted by Tilikum17 View Post
“Spotted in the wild (aka one of the busiest train stations in NYC),” Atcheson wrote. “An ad for Google Explore that implies people are searching the word vegan. Yep, times are a-changin’.”

Tilikum - remember context us everything lol. A quick experiment with Google gave me this ....

https://i.imgflip.com/2j2q24.jpg


Ps those are not my sentiments - it shows just how results of searches on Google can be misinterpreted
...

Last edited by gozunda; 30-09-2018 at 22:52.
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01-10-2018, 00:09   #18
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Nice and all, but why do they have to misrepresent things? The water statistic for beef production for instance, linking it to drought is nonsense. Almost all of the water footprint in beef production is green (rain) water that wouldn't be used for anything else. The majority of it going on grass/cereal growth. That's water that no matter that's growing where it lands, it's not being use for anything else, never mind contributing to drought relief.
Classic example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. Out of context the statement "it takes x amount of water to produce y kg of beef" sounds striking, when you investigate it, it really doesn't mean anything because it's green (rain) water and would just end up being used by whatever plant was on the ground, stored as ground water or run off into streams, gullies or rivers anyway.

In Ireland and other countries where industrial feed lots don't really exist, as close to 100% of beef water footprint is green water as makes no difference, and in the US, China and other countries with large feed lots the footprint is still well over 90% green water.
While those big numbers per KG or whatever don't tell the story I guess they are trying to get the point across that animal agriculture is stressing the worlds water resources. 10% grey/blue non green water is a lot of water for hundreds of billions of animals. Livestock accounts for 27% of global freshwater consumption, numbers are rising and the change from traditional to intensive farming is gradually increasing as well as the amount of animals farmed, this leads to increased blue and grey water usage footprints per animal when there is already great pressure on global freshwater resources (larger dependence on concentrate feed in industrial systems). Random big total figures like that are silly to me too and yes it's mostly green water, but that's not really the point.

Although most water used in growing everything is green, the values inclusive of all types show the trend, as the freshwater demand increases for them also (on average, obviously pasture is green and this thread is about the world so we use the average), from a report on water usage from waterfrootprint.org:

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As a general picture we find that animal products have a larger water footprint per ton of product than crop products. As we see from Table 6, the global average water footprint per ton of crop increases from sugar crops(roughly 200 m3/ton) and vegetables (~300 m3/ton) to pulses (~4000 m3/ton) and nuts (~9000 m3/ton). For animal products, the water footprint increases from milk (~1000 m3/ton) and egg (~3300 m3/ton) to beef (~15400m3/ton).

Also when viewed from a caloric standpoint, the water footprint of animal products is larger than for crop products. The average water footprint per calorie for beef is twenty times larger than for cereals and starchy roots. When we look at the water requirements for protein, we find that the water footprint per gram of protein for milk, eggs and chicken meat is about 1.5 times larger than for pulses. For beef, the water footprint per gram of protein is 6 times larger than for pulses. In the case of fat, we find that butter has a relatively small water footprint per gram of fat, even lower than for oil crops. All other animal products, however, have larger water footprints per gram of fat when compared to oil crops. The general conclusion is that from a freshwater resource perspective, it is more efficient to obtain calories, protein and fat through crop products than animal products. A note should be made here, however, that types of proteins and fats differ across the different products.In order to reduce the pressure on the world’s water resource associated with their consumption pattern,individuals have the option of shifting from a meat-rich to a vegetarian diet. The water footprint of an individual consumer depends to a large extent on the type of diet of the individual. Meat-based diets have a larger water footprint compared to a vegetarian diet. The average USA citizen consumes almost four times the amount of protein compared to the global average (FAO, 2009). About 63% of the daily protein intake comes from animal based products. This high level of consumption of animal-based products is directly reflected in the relative large water footprint of the average American citizen (Hoekstra and Chapagain, 2007). Replacing 50% of all animal products by an equivalent amount of high nutritious crop products such as pulses, groundnuts and potatoes will result a 30% reduction of the food-related water footprint. A vegetarian diet compared with the average current per capita food intake in the USA can reduce the water footprint of an individual by as much as 58%.


I think in general billboards are kept simple for a reason, people can only digest so much in passing, they can look into themselves afterwards.

Last edited by Tar.Aldarion; 01-10-2018 at 00:33.
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01-10-2018, 05:19   #19
klopparama
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Not as bad as the peta ones but why the need for billboards? Can vegans not just be happy with themselves instead of pushing their beliefs on others?
Pushing their beliefs ?

That’s gas.

Do you think billboards pushing the carnist lifelstyle of consuming dead animals and animal products like veal, lambs, milk and cheese are also not needed ?

Carnists pushing their beliefs on billboards - does that also upset you ?

Last edited by klopparama; 01-10-2018 at 05:36.
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01-10-2018, 05:35   #20
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Shame you couldn’t embed those Tilikum as some people won’t click on to links.

I like the ‘try never moving’ one on pigs.

The ‘milk comes from a grieving mother’


‘Their first and last day together’ is very good too.

It’s a great way to make people think about their choices.

Driving along or travelling on public transport can allow people to think about this and it will lead to change.

Especially children and teenagers as it could provoke some good conversations and let them work it out for themselves.
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01-10-2018, 07:21   #21
Tilikum17
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Originally Posted by klopparama View Post
Shame you couldn’t embed those Tilikum as some people won’t click on to links.

I like the ‘try never moving’ one on pigs.

The ‘milk comes from a grieving mother’


‘Their first and last day together’ is very good too.

It’s a great way to make people think about their choices.

Driving along or travelling on public transport can allow people to think about this and it will lead to change.

Especially children and teenagers as it could provoke some good conversations and let them work it out for themselves.
My mate’s kid is 9. Hid dad has a horrendous diet & the child knows all about it. He knows all about vegetarianism/veganism.

He recently asked me, why do you not eat meat? Is it for your health, the planet or for the animals. I smiled at him and asked how do you all that? He said, they teach us in school.

Teachers aren’t that bad after all.
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01-10-2018, 07:59   #22
gozunda
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Originally Posted by klopparama View Post
Pushing their beliefs ?
That’s gas. Do you think billboards pushing the carnist lifelstyle of consuming dead animals and animal products like veal, lambs, milk and cheese are also not needed ? Carnists pushing their beliefs on billboards - does that also upset you?
That's gas alright Klopp. The billboards are specifically pushing vegan opinions and beliefs

The funny thing is that that - there are no
billboards 'pushing a carnist lifestyle (sic) of consuming dead animals and animal products like veal, lambs, milk and cheese' lol

First 'carnists' (sic) don't exist klopp - apparently that's your favourite made up and rather silly veginista word.

Second - Billboards selling brands of cheese or beef or whatever is simply advertising designed to sell certain goods. You don't have to buy anything if yo do not wish to

Of course the various vegan organisations could attempt to 'sell' veganism if they wanted ie "tofu is great stuff" or whatever but instead they try to push their belief system at other people using Billboard sized spaces and emotive rubbish withering on on about 'baby' animals and betrayal yada yada. I find those billboards amusing in their naivity tbh

These billboards keep the messages 'simple' because that's what propaganda does - promote sound bites of a biased or misleading nature, which are used to push a specific point of view.

The last great vegan billboard campaign here went down the tube fairly rapidly ....

Last edited by gozunda; 01-10-2018 at 08:35.
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01-10-2018, 08:01   #23
aaakev
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Originally Posted by klopparama View Post
Pushing their beliefs ?

That’s gas.

Do you think billboards pushing the carnist lifelstyle of consuming dead animals and animal products like veal, lambs, milk and cheese are also not needed ?

Carnists pushing their beliefs on billboards - does that also upset you ?
I think billboards promoting a healthy, varied diet are important. Meat from dead animals, milk and cheese is part of that healthy diet so no, these billboards do not upset me. The vegan ones dont upset me either, im just making an observation
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01-10-2018, 13:12   #24
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Not as bad as the peta ones but why the need for billboards?
Well, vegans are confronted by non-vegan advertising throughout their lives, so it's a little rich to allow that and deny an opposing view.

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Can vegans not just be happy with themselves instead of pushing their beliefs on others?
I'm happy with myself, aaakev, thanks for asking!

Incidentally, a philosophy of 'do no harm' is not a belief.
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01-10-2018, 13:15   #25
davidjtaylor
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Veganism and vegetarianism would genuinely make the planet a better place.
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No. It won't.
With due respect to you both, neither of you can say one way or the other. We don't know because it's never been tried.

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It won't mitigate climate change, it won't reduce soil erosion, it won't reduce water usage in agriculture...
Many would disagree so can you provide peer-reviewed citations, please?
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01-10-2018, 13:18   #26
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What would happen all the farm animals of the whole world went vegan tomorrow?
That's a good question and worth thinking about.

As most domesticated animals are deliberately bred by humans, in a vegan world they wouldn't have been bred in the first place.

However, they're here now, we 'created' them; humans have a responsibility to look after them until they reach the end of their natural life.
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01-10-2018, 14:30   #27
gozunda
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Well, vegans are confronted by non-vegan advertising throughout their lives, so it's a little rich to allow that and deny an opposing view.
I'm happy with myself, aaakev, thanks for asking!
Incidentally, a philosophy of 'do no harm' is not a belief.
David the basic difference between the two is that one is advertising - the other isn't. I've yet to see any vegan billboards advertising tofu or wearing sandals or whatever (And yes that is a bit of tongue in cheek humour). Vegans are not obliged to buy the lovely cheese or whatever is being advertised.

Are others not allowed to comment on these billboards? Or does freedom of expression only work for select groups?

Last edited by gozunda; 01-10-2018 at 14:41.
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01-10-2018, 14:33   #28
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I honestly feel there is no need for this shock advertising.
These days, the health movement is huge, and the vegan industry (agenda) should push on the health benefits alone, along with the health concerns of too much meat.
I know plenty of my friends drastically cutting down on their meat intake, but it's nothing to do with loving animals.

Last edited by whiskeyman; 01-10-2018 at 14:42.
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01-10-2018, 18:16   #29
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I honestly feel there is no need for this shock advertising.
These days, the health movement is huge, and the vegan industry (agenda) should push on the health benefits alone, along with the health concerns of too much meat.
I know plenty of my friends drastically cutting down on their meat intake, but it's nothing to do with loving animals.
Problem is there are no health benefits to a plant only diet compared to a balanced diet.An average of 70g of red meat a day is the recommended amount , combined with chicken should be enough to keep anybody fond of meat happy.
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01-10-2018, 18:56   #30
aaakev
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Well, vegans are confronted by non-vegan advertising throughout their lives, so it's a little rich to allow that and deny an opposing view.
But its not advertising anything, its pushing a believe down people's throats and trying to make them feel bad about their choices when they have nothing to feel bad about.


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i'm happy with myself, aaakev, thanks for asking!
Im glad to hear it!

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incidentally, a philosophy of 'do no harm' is not a belief
Come on, you believe people shouldn't eat meat which is fine by the way! I believe everyone should have their own choice and if they want to eat a fillet steak and wash it down with a glass of milk they should not be judged for doing so
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