Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
View Poll Results: How will The Rise of Skywalker do at the box office?
Surprise hit higher gross than The Last Jedi 30 37.97%
Runaway hit highest gross beating The force Awakens 23 29.11%
Disappointing box office take less than a billion 19 24.05%
Total flop and a financial loss for Disney 7 8.86%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
31-07-2018, 10:04   #46
pixelburp
Moderator
 
pixelburp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inviere View Post
Of course, it's an important discussion point, but we don't know what unseen material Disney have of Fisher, there could be loads of unused footage for all we know...and yet, in post #3, we get "Abrams is going to screw this up", it's hard not to call that cynical.

Who said anything about a CGI character though? Abrams own words counteract this notion:
Honestly, JJ Abrams is a bullsh*t artist and wouldn't trust a word he says. Between his dissembling with Lost, or outright lies over 'John Harrison' in Star Trek: Into Darkness, I take anything he says with a generous pinch of salt. He's the master of the 'Mystery Box' trope and I'd extend that predilection to his public statements.

He says they won't use a CG character, but how else but through dubbing and/or CGI can they fill the blanks? Unless they propose that she just stands in the corner saying nothing, or by a miracle of chance the Episode IX script perfectly overlaps some convenient footage shot for Episode VII. It asks questions.

Now who knows, maybe the sum total of her appearance is simply to be killed off during the movie, instead of off-screen before the credits roll, but that still feels like a needless inclusion.

Declaring opinions as cynicism and misery isn't particularly friendly or improve discussion over something people obviously feel is a bad idea. Yes, wait n' see is all well and good but the news was announced she'd be in the film - it's hard not to discuss something intentionally disseminated for discussion

Last edited by pixelburp; 31-07-2018 at 10:14.
pixelburp is offline  
(4) thanks from:
Advertisement
31-07-2018, 10:23   #47
Inviere
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelburp View Post
Declaring opinions as cynicism and misery isn't particularly friendly or improve discussion over something people obviously feel is a bad idea.
What's a bad idea? We don't know anything though, and people are already writing off the film based on assumption, vague guesswork, and emotional bias..., it's entirely valid to call that behavior out as cynical, because it is. It shouldn't be dressed up as valid opinion, certainly not in the context of a mature debate anyway. Please don't misconstrue my posts as attacking peoples valid opinions, that's certainly not what at all what I'm doing. Opinions form the basis of discussion, that's what we're trying to establish here.
Inviere is offline  
31-07-2018, 10:46   #48
pixelburp
Moderator
 
pixelburp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inviere View Post
What's a bad idea?
Bringing back Leia. Full stop. I'd thought that was clear from most peoples' posts. I think the script should kill her off-screen and let the start of the film be the fallout of her death.

I should point out I actually LIKE Abram's work: MI:3 was great; Fringe remains one of my favourite TV shows; I even have fondness for his less celebrated work like Super 8; etc. But he has tired habits in his approach, and a precedent of waffling non-truths, that makes cynicism - heck, just basic caution - the smart play here.

Now, it's the third, 'final' part of a film series, so it'll take some work by Abrams to cram a Mystery Box into the script, but neither the franchise or director/writer is an unknown quantity here. It's not like people are immediately sh*tting on... say, a Yoda spin-off. Episode IX already has presence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inviere View Post
We don't know anything though, and people are already writing off the film based on assumption, vague guesswork, and emotional bias..., it's entirely valid to call that behavior out as cynical, because it is. It shouldn't be dressed up as valid opinion, certainly not in the context of a mature debate anyway. Please don't misconstrue my posts as attacking peoples valid opinions, that's certainly not what at all what I'm doing. Opinions form the basis of discussion, that's what we're trying to establish here.
You say you're not attacking posters, yet the previous sentence claims our 'cynicism' isn't a valid opinion Cynicism is a perfectly valid position to take. You may not like it, its dark caution may rankle, but it's only another notch on the sliding scale between "rank negativity" and "unrealistic hype". Personally, I find hyperventilating "OMG this is going to be amazing!" tedious - the recent Comic Con was like Kryptonite haha - so I'm not unsympathetic to your POV

OBVIOUSLY it's all up in the air - given this is already the second director assigned to the production, clearly a lot can still change again - but doesn't mean we can't spitball
pixelburp is offline  
(2) thanks from:
31-07-2018, 10:53   #49
Inviere
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelburp View Post
Bringing back Leia. Full stop.
There's definite scope for debate there, should it be done off screen, should they reuse unseen footage, and so forth.

Quote:
You say you're not attacking posters, yet the previous sentence claims our 'cynicism' isn't a valid opinion
So writing off the film before shooting even begins is valid? In the Films forum? Has Disney taken over here too?

Quote:
OBVIOUSLY it's all up in the air - given this is already the second director assigned to the production, clearly a lot can still change again - but doesn't mean we can't spitball
I'll stop rocking the boat, I personally find the constant "Disney ruined my childhood", "this is going to be crap", "JJ will ruin this", "they're lying, I bet they're going to use a full on CG Leia" stuff as not very worthy of discussion.
Inviere is offline  
(3) thanks from:
31-07-2018, 11:17   #50
pixelburp
Moderator
 
pixelburp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inviere View Post
There's definite scope for debate there, should it be done off screen, should they reuse unseen footage, and so forth.

So writing off the film before shooting even begins is valid? In the Films forum? Has Disney taken over here too?
Uhm. Actually, TBH dude, I just had a quick flick across the thread and don't see anyone 'writing off' the film. In fact most related chat is broadly a "wait n' see" variation mixed with thoughts on how they'll use Leia in the story - a bit of snark all right with Sopranos comparisons, but I'm not now sure who you're actually angry at here?

By all accounts this thread has been quite tame and open ended; I mean have you seen the Last Jedi thread?
pixelburp is offline  
Advertisement
31-07-2018, 11:37   #51
Inviere
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelburp View Post
Uhm. Actually, TBH dude, I just had a quick flick across the thread and don't see anyone 'writing off' the film.
Post #3 below sets the tone (I've edited out the non misery bits )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad Professor View Post
They are full of it. This is basically CGI Leia confirmed...Abrams is going to screw this up.
I think Slydice and Drumpot hit the nail on the head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slydice View Post
The shround of the thread discontent has fallen. Begun the Episode IX discussion has!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumpot View Post
I predict there will be plenty of respectful conversations with people calmly discussing the direction Disney are taking the franchise....
Quote:
I'm not now sure who you're actually angry at here?
Who's angry?

Quote:
By all accounts this thread has been quite tame and open ended; I mean have you seen the Last Jedi thread?
Nah, checked out of that thread a long time ago, something about a wretched hive of scum and villainy comes to mind
Inviere is offline  
31-07-2018, 11:45   #52
pixelburp
Moderator
 
pixelburp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inviere View Post
Post #3 below sets the tone (I've edited out the non misery bits )
Right, well let's agree to disagree 'cos I think one swallow doesn't make a summer here, and the thread's been fine otherwise Snarky, not scarcely the trough of despair you seem to think it is.
pixelburp is offline  
Thanks from:
31-07-2018, 12:03   #53
Theboinkmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inviere View Post
What's a bad idea? We don't know anything though, and people are already writing off the film based on assumption,
You sound like David75

I haven't seen anyone write off this film yet.

However I do see people disagreeing with bringing Leia and Lando back and expressing doubt over the potentially quality of the story and execution of the film.

Perfectly OK IMO, this is a discussion forum isn't it, for a film that's not out for 18 months
Theboinkmaster is offline  
Thanks from:
31-07-2018, 12:14   #54
Inviere
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelburp View Post
Snarky, not scarcely the trough of despair you seem to think it is.
Perhaps not, yet. Though sure as the force being with a Skywalker, this thread will rival a Mos Eisley canteena before long...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theboinkmaster View Post
You sound like David75
Interesting, who is this David75 chap? He sounds like a nice person to have a reasoned debate with
Inviere is offline  
Advertisement
31-07-2018, 12:17   #55
Sad Professor
Information Retrieval
 
Sad Professor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 21,336
I wasn't writing off the film, just the use of CGI Leia, which lets be clear is exactly what they are doing here. Yes, it may be more augmented CGI than full CGI like Tarkin, but it's still CGI. What annoys me is that they said Leia wouldn't be in the film but have now done a complete 180.

As I've noted, though, there appears to be plenty of footage leftover from TFA that could be used to construct a decent performance with some CGI help, I just hope they don't go overboard with it and only use it at the end of the film where it will cause least distraction, but I'm very sceptical that's what they'll do.
Sad Professor is offline  
Thanks from:
31-07-2018, 12:24   #56
Inviere
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad Professor View Post
I wasn't writing off the film, just the use of CGI Leia
Ah, my bad, apologies then I misread your post.

Quote:
which lets be clear is exactly what they are doing here. Yes, it may be more augmented CGI than full CGI like Tarkin, but it's still CGI.
Why though? Do you mean to digitally take Leia out of the physical surroundings of the unseen footage shots, and place her in a more fitting environment? Or do you mean they'll actually alter her appearance? The former is probably a given (and perfectly fine imo), but what evidence suggests the latter is probable? There'd be almost universal backlash for messing with the appearance of Fisher, I find it hard to believe they'll do it.

Quote:
As I've noted, though, there appears to be plenty of footage leftover from TFA that could be used to construct a decent performance with some CGI help, I just hope they don't go overboard with it and only use it at the end of the film where it will cause least distraction, but I'm very sceptical that's what they'll do.
I reckon they'll do the smart thing, and construct a scene that plays to the strengths of whatever footage they have left, and it'll be short, meaningful, and sweet. I honestly can't see them going down any other path.
Inviere is offline  
31-07-2018, 12:41   #57
Theboinkmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inviere View Post
I reckon they'll do the smart thing, and construct a scene that plays to the strengths of whatever footage they have left, and it'll be short, meaningful, and sweet. I honestly can't see them going down any other path.
All recent evidence to the contrary I wouldn't have confidence that's what they'll do.

Smarter thing would be to have her die in opening crawl and kick off film with touching funeral scene etc. Maybe opening shot being her coffin in space shooting out of a spaceship and then amazing sweeping shot with music through ship etc. You could do it in a really great way and then get on with the story.

Remember the fan outrage and dismay when they announced Solo?! Look what happened...
Theboinkmaster is offline  
31-07-2018, 13:07   #58
Inviere
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4,284
The smarter way to do it is debatable, even from this thread there are folks who feel an opening crawl announcement would be jarring. Others, feel differently obviously. Personally, I'd prefer to see it in an opening crawl announcement, as opposed to having to deal with the difficulties of setting it up on screen. That said, does it have to be set up on screen? What I mean by that is, what's to say Leia has to die? How do we know the unseed speech they have of her, isn't someone very fitting for the end or near the end of the film, and the best tribute they feel for Leia/Fisher, is to have her remain alive, and therefore, forever alive in our hearts and minds?
Inviere is offline  
31-07-2018, 13:45   #59
nix
Registered User
 
nix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inviere View Post


Interesting, who is this David75 chap? He sounds like a nice person to have a reasoned debate with
Wouldnt get much of a debate, you could have Darth Vader reading the newspaper on a toilet seat for 2 hours and he would say its the best movie ever.

But eh, i think hes banned now


Oh and opening a star wars movie with a funeral wouldnt be the Disney thing to do
nix is offline  
31-07-2018, 13:49   #60
Sad Professor
Information Retrieval
 
Sad Professor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 21,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inviere View Post
Why though? Do you mean to digitally take Leia out of the physical surroundings of the unseen footage shots, and place her in a more fitting environment? Or do you mean they'll actually alter her appearance? The former is probably a given (and perfectly fine imo), but what evidence suggests the latter is probable? There'd be almost universal backlash for messing with the appearance of Fisher, I find it hard to believe they'll do it.
They'll have to alter her appearance otherwise she'll be wearing the exact same outfit and hairstyle as TFA and it will be obvious as hell that they are just using deleted scenes. They'll also be integrating her footage into new scenes featuring the main characters and that may require CGI to change her mouth movements, etc. Even if they cut around that, there's still going to be a lot of CGI involved and the audience will be watching for it.

I'll remind everyone of what the last attempt to CGI augment an actor looked like:

Sad Professor is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet