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13-04-2017, 14:32   #1
Pat Mustard
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Call for reintroduction of Saint Patrick's Day alcohol ban

The Intoxicating Liquor Act 1927 banned the sale of alcohol "at any time on Christmas Day, Good Friday, or Saint Patrick's Day."

The Saint Patrick's Day ban was lifted by subsequent legislation but the ban has remained for Christmas Day and Good Friday.

Presently, there moves afoot to repeal the Good Friday ban.

However, I saw this article, in which a Cork City Councillor has called for the reintroduction of the Saint Patrick's Day ban on alcohol sales:
Quote:
I want to ask that before Fine Gael Justice Minister undoes the fine work of her colleague 90 years ago by declaring Good Friday a wet day that she would consider re-declaring St Patrick's Day a dry day once more.
In calling for the reintroduction of the Saint Patrick's Day alcohol ban, he made veiled references to domestic abuse associated with alcohol abuse:
Quote:
My concern is with what happens on St Patrick's Day once the parade is over and everybody goes home.
My own opinion is that this legislation was brought in for its religious significance at a time when the vast majority of Irish people strongly identified as Catholic. The alcohol ban served a religious purpose once but that purpose no longer exists for a great number of the population. It seems nonsensical too attempt to justify keeping that legislation on the books on the basis that it is no more than a minor inconvenience.

I presume that the Cork County Councillor is trying to draw attention to himself in some way, by adopting this unusual approach but who knows, perhaps he is serious?

Any other opinions?
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19-04-2017, 10:32   #2
Peregrinus
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I'm not sure the ban ever did serve a religious purpose - at least, not predominantly. The Catholic church doesn't forbid the use of alcohol on Good Friday, and neither does any other Christian tradition. And, although the ban was introduced by the Free State in 1927 and not by the previous British administration, it's very much part of a pattern of such bans throughout former British possessions, in many of which the Catholic church was never very influential anyway.

I think it probably has more to do with a puritan-influenced temperance tradition, which didn't like to see public holidays marked by alcohol consumption, and which focussed on the resulting social evils (as indeed does the Cork counsellor today).
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24-04-2017, 15:28   #3
Xterminator
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Heres the thing though.

Deeply religious people can continue to abstain from alcohol on good friday. they just cant force their dogma on everyone else in the country.

Seems like a simple thing really.
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24-04-2017, 15:41   #4
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
I think it probably has more to do with a puritan-influenced temperance tradition, which didn't like to see public holidays marked by alcohol consumption, and which focussed on the resulting social evils (as indeed does the Cork counsellor today).
I wasn't aware of that. Interesting to know.
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24-04-2017, 15:44   #5
 
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
I'm not sure the ban ever did serve a religious purpose - at least, not predominantly. The Catholic church doesn't forbid the use of alcohol on Good Friday, and neither does any other Christian tradition. And, although the ban was introduced by the Free State in 1927 and not by the previous British administration, it's very much part of a pattern of such bans throughout former British possessions, in many of which the Catholic church was never very influential anyway.

I think it probably has more to do with a puritan-influenced temperance tradition, which didn't like to see public holidays marked by alcohol consumption, and which focussed on the resulting social evils (as indeed does the Cork counsellor today).
Latter paragraph is very true. While Catholic Ireland was banning alcohol on one or two days, the protestant US was banning it everywhere.
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25-04-2017, 03:10   #6
Peregrinus
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Originally Posted by Xterminator View Post
Heres the thing though.

Deeply religious people can continue to abstain from alcohol on good friday. they just cant force their dogma on everyone else in the country.

Seems like a simple thing really.
No, here's the thing; it's wisest to read through a thread before you contribute to it.

As already pointed out, the "deeply religious" have no objection to consuming alcohol on Good Friday; it's red meat and fowl that they have a problem with. There's no church prohibition on drinking alcohol on Good Friday.

So, presenting the pub closure rule as "forcing dogma on everybody" is basically ignorant. There's no dogma at stake here. I think if you're going to oppose the pub closure rule, it helps to undertstand the reason it was imposed in the first place, and this isn't it.
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25-04-2017, 03:47   #7
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Yeah, really good idea. Telling all the Brits, Americans and other tourists that they can't drink on Paddy's day..
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25-04-2017, 08:40   #8
silverharp
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Originally Posted by Yourself isit View Post
Latter paragraph is very true. While Catholic Ireland was banning alcohol on one or two days, the protestant US was banning it everywhere.
In the US it was the protestant churches that wanted the bans and the catholics wanted the gov. to stay out of it

were protestants behind it then in Ireland?
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25-04-2017, 08:46   #9
 
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were protestants behind it then in Ireland?
Perfect use of a Father Ted quote for there!

As far as I'm aware the Catholic Church is not really concerned or bothered by the ban.

Im undecided about the ban to Paddy's day. Maybe reduced opening hours or no off Licences. Just to reign in the madness that tends to happen.
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25-04-2017, 08:49   #10
Ash.J.Williams
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he lost me here


Quote:
I want to ask that before Fine Gael Justice Minister undoes the fine work of her colleague 90 years ago by declaring Good Friday a wet day that she would consider re-declaring St Patrick's Day a dry day once more.
G0bsh1te
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25-04-2017, 08:55   #11
Clareman
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What amuses me about all the discussions about banning the sale of alcohol that it's all about the person buying it, how about the person selling it? Maybe the bans were put in place to allow bar staff to spend some time with their families, Christmas, Easter and St. Patrick's Day are 3 of the more popular holidays in Ireland, maybe the ban was to allow bar staff have some time off then? Am I the only 1 that remembers the "Holy Hour" on a Sunday? for those that don't remember it was when pubs were shut from 2-4 on a Sunday, it was known as the Holy Hour but really it was nothing to do with anything Holy, it was to allow everyone have some time to have Sunday lunch with their families.
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25-04-2017, 14:27   #12
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Originally Posted by Barbie!sBitch View Post
What amuses me about all the discussions about banning the sale of alcohol that it's all about the person buying it, how about the person selling it? Maybe the bans were put in place to allow bar staff to spend some time with their families, Christmas, Easter and St. Patrick's Day are 3 of the more popular holidays in Ireland, maybe the ban was to allow bar staff have some time off then? Am I the only 1 that remembers the "Holy Hour" on a Sunday? for those that don't remember it was when pubs were shut from 2-4 on a Sunday, it was known as the Holy Hour but really it was nothing to do with anything Holy, it was to allow everyone have some time to have Sunday lunch with their families.
I've yet to meet a barman who only has good Friday and Christmas day off.
This argument for keeping it is ludicrous
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25-04-2017, 14:29   #13
Clareman
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Originally Posted by quadrifoglio verde View Post
I've yet to meet a barman who only has good Friday and Christmas day off.
This argument for keeping it is ludicrous
The owner of my local is the only barman for his pub since his father died and his mother got sick.
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25-04-2017, 14:39   #14
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Originally Posted by Barbie!sBitch View Post
The owner of my local is the only barman for his pub since his father died and his mother got sick.
And there is nothing to stop him closing on Monday and Tuesday's if he wishes. He is the owner. He can do that if he wants. He can also work every day if he wants.

I'm on about the employed bar man. They don't work 363 days of the year.
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25-04-2017, 16:41   #15
Pat Mustard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbie!sBitch View Post
What amuses me about all the discussions about banning the sale of alcohol that it's all about the person buying it, how about the person selling it? Maybe the bans were put in place to allow bar staff to spend some time with their families, Christmas, Easter and St. Patrick's Day are 3 of the more popular holidays in Ireland, maybe the ban was to allow bar staff have some time off then? Am I the only 1 that remembers the "Holy Hour" on a Sunday? for those that don't remember it was when pubs were shut from 2-4 on a Sunday, it was known as the Holy Hour but really it was nothing to do with anything Holy, it was to allow everyone have some time to have Sunday lunch with their families.
I couldn't find this in Dáil debates and it appears to me that the reference to 1925 is not correct but see the quoted text from the linked article:
Quote:
The regulations had been introduced by Cumann na nGael Minister Kevin O'Higgins in 1925.

In doing so, Mr O'Higgins remarked, "No more will St Patrick's Day be celebrated with drunkenness, nor Good Friday disgraced by tipsy rowdies in the street."
No mention of a holiday for bar and off-licence staff, etc.

Although when the law was introduced, it banned alcohol sales on Saint Patrick's day.
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