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15-11-2019, 17:37   #7276
Enduro
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Originally Posted by BKWDR View Post
Random question incoming….

I have the 16 week Asics training plan that I am looking to start in a couple weeks on the run up to Barcelona.

I am trying to work it around my commitments work / family etc and plan it out in the calendar.

I am moving the Long run which seems to be on Sundays (understandable) to midweek on a Tuesday or Wednesday (I want to run home from work on these days), should I be moving everything around to suit this or is it just important I have the next day as a rest day?

I fully understand I may be overthinking this.
Reading this question reminded me of this article. Ignore the ultra runnning bit... the key point is to get beyond over-dependence on the micro-specifics of a training plan.

Your plan is generic and not specifically made for you by one on one coaching... vary away to you hearts content. Just aim to broadly hit the underlying objectives of the plan. Understand the "whys" rather than the "whats" of the plan.
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15-11-2019, 20:17   #7277
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Reading this question reminded me of this article. Ignore the ultra runnning bit... the key point is to get beyond over-dependence on the micro-specifics of a training plan.

Your plan is generic and not specifically made for you by one on one coaching... vary away to you hearts content. Just aim to broadly hit the underlying objectives of the plan. Understand the "whys" rather than the "whats" of the plan.
The article is what I needed to read! Thank you
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23-11-2019, 17:06   #7278
The Black Oil
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Trying to get a handle on heart rate stuff. I use a Garmin 235. It seems one way to go is to measure your resting rate after waking up in the morning. Well, I was woke up at 3am last night and didn't get much sleep after that, so I thought it would be inaccurate try and gauge it on that basis. Broken sleep is fairly typical for me. Is the basic approach - get your RHR, then do something solid to get your max, like a flat out 5k? Another rule of thumb seems to be to use 220 and subtract your age, leaving 183 as max for me (on paper). My details in Garmin Connect are correct - DOB, etc. I think I'm spending too much time in zone 3 at times, but dunno how accurate this either as my HR settings may be off, but as from the stuff above I'm not sure how to fix it. Got the strap right now so it won't fall down any more, hopefully.
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23-11-2019, 18:10   #7279
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Had similar thoughts around resting heart rate. The morning test thing won't work for me, you're supposed to test after waking naturally. Can't remember the last time I woke naturally. Will probably be another 15 years before I do.

Is it your best/lowest that you're looking for? Would it be possible to get that info by wearing the strap constantly for a couple of days?
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23-11-2019, 18:29   #7280
The Black Oil
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Had similar thoughts around resting heart rate. The morning test thing won't work for me, you're supposed to test after waking naturally. Can't remember the last time I woke naturally. Will probably be another 15 years before I do.

Is it your best/lowest that you're looking for? Would it be possible to get that info by wearing the strap constantly for a couple of days?
Yeah, pretty much. Taking it three days in a row and an average from that is apparently another way of determining RHR.
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23-11-2019, 18:30   #7281
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Yeah, pretty much. Taking it three days in a row and an average from that is apparently another way of determining RHR.
Is it average or lowest though?
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23-11-2019, 18:50   #7282
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I'm kinda perplexed by this too.

Had my max heart rate on strava (don't ask me what my calculation was! I think 180?) then I did the 220 minus age =184 and then bam all my exercises are zone 4.

My resting heart rate on my fitbit has me at 58/59

I ran 12k today and its 80% in z4 threshold. And I was 5.30km pace.
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23-11-2019, 18:58   #7283
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Originally Posted by The Black Oil View Post
Trying to get a handle on heart rate stuff. I use a Garmin 235. It seems one way to go is to measure your resting rate after waking up in the morning. Well, I was woke up at 3am last night and didn't get much sleep after that, so I thought it would be inaccurate try and gauge it on that basis. Broken sleep is fairly typical for me. Is the basic approach - get your RHR, then do something solid to get your max, like a flat out 5k? Another rule of thumb seems to be to use 220 and subtract your age, leaving 183 as max for me (on paper). My details in Garmin Connect are correct - DOB, etc. I think I'm spending too much time in zone 3 at times, but dunno how accurate this either as my HR settings may be off, but as from the stuff above I'm not sure how to fix it. Got the strap right now so it won't fall down any more, hopefully.
1st off the 220 minus age is complete BS.
Why would you think that taking RHR at 3am etc after broken sleep would not be an accurate reflection of RHR ?.
RHR can fluctuate based on a few thing's but not limited to, doing a hard session and not recovered fully to coming down with some type "bug" or illness.
My advice is to take your HR 5 or 6 morning a week any try establish a "BASELINE" RHR. This can be done manually by taking your pluse for 1 minute. Once you have a base established you can better monitor and plan sessions around your recovery. Example of which would be, You had planned a hard run/session on Tuesday but your RHR is 15% above baseline, then i would advise NOT doing the session that day. It's important to remember that the body doesn't really acknowledge the days of the week !.
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23-11-2019, 19:04   #7284
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Originally Posted by BKWDR View Post
I'm kinda perplexed by this too.

Had my max heart rate on strava (don't ask me what my calculation was! I think 180?) then I did the 220 minus age =184 and then bam all my exercises are zone 4.

My resting heart rate on my fitbit has me at 58/59

I ran 12k today and its 80% in z4 threshold. And I was 5.30km pace.
What time would you run a 5k or 10k in approx?
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23-11-2019, 19:06   #7285
BKWDR
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What time would you run a 5k or 10k in approx?
I note it says based upon a 5k time of 24 mins. My pb from Park run is about 21 /22 mins from years ago

A few weeks back I ran a 10k just under 50 mins. Think my pb from 2017 is 48 mins
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23-11-2019, 19:07   #7286
Lazare
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Originally Posted by BKWDR View Post
I'm kinda perplexed by this too.

Had my max heart rate on strava (don't ask me what my calculation was! I think 180?) then I did the 220 minus age =184 and then bam all my exercises are zone 4.

My resting heart rate on my fitbit has me at 58/59

I ran 12k today and its 80% in z4 threshold. And I was 5.30km pace.
What I'm learning is the importance of accuracy when it comes to HR training.

An accurate RHR, an accurate MHR, and most importantly an accurate method of measuring/monitoring. Chest strap the only method.

It was likely incorrect today telling you you were running at your threshold at 5:30 but that's the beauty of HR training. Your threshold pace will differ day to day dependant on many factors, but your heart rate at threshold won't. You need accurate stats though.
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23-11-2019, 19:17   #7287
Ceepo
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Originally Posted by BKWDR View Post
I note it says based upon a 5k time of 24 mins. My pb from Park run is about 21 /22 mins from years ago

A few weeks back I ran a 10k just under 50 mins. Think my pb from 2017 is 48 mins
You have to leave aside what happened years ago
Your recent 10k time is 50 mins, your run today was 30 seconds per k slower than your 10k race pace, this for me is way to fast if you were trying to do an easy run today and would seem about right that it was in Z4. Z4 is somewhere around Lactate threshold.
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23-11-2019, 19:32   #7288
Ceepo
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Originally Posted by Lazare View Post
What I'm learning is the importance of accuracy when it comes to HR training.

An accurate RHR, an accurate MHR, and most importantly an accurate method of measuring/monitoring. Chest strap the only method.

It was likely incorrect today telling you you were running at your threshold at 5:30 but that's the beauty of HR training. Your threshold pace will differ day to day dependant on many factors, but your heart rate at threshold won't. You need accurate stats though.
While accuracy is important for sure, its also important to remember that HR is not black and white, it can fluctuate daily and a for a variety of different reasons, even having a cup of coffee can elevate HR.
That is why there are zones, but even then this not absolute, it even can get more complicated depending on what zones you are following, Coggan, Friel, Garmin etc
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23-11-2019, 20:16   #7289
Lazare
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While accuracy is important for sure, its also important to remember that HR is not black and white, it can fluctuate daily and a for a variety of different reasons, even having a cup of coffee can elevate HR.
That is why there are zones, but even then this not absolute, it even can get more complicated depending on what zones you are following, Coggan, Friel, Garmin etc
Is that not the point of HR training over using pace ranges though, the fluidity of it?

You know that x bpm is marathon effort so you run at that heart rate/effort, if that's what the workout requires. Whether you've had too much coffee or too little sleep, or too much work stress, your HR gives you a constant that pace ranges can't.

That's what my reading is of it so far, but I'm just beginning to study it.
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23-11-2019, 20:53   #7290
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Is that not the point of HR training over using pace ranges though, the fluidity of it?

You know that x bpm is marathon effort so you run at that heart rate/effort, if that's what the workout requires. Whether you've had too much coffee or too little sleep, or too much work stress, your HR gives you a constant that pace ranges can't.

That's what my reading is of it so far, but I'm just beginning to study it.
Yes that's true. your HR is the physiological cost of the effort you are making regardless of pace.
But you have to work within range's within zone's, and sometimes you also have to "ALLOW" for the fact you had the cup of coffee etc,
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