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TNG runthrough

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    #362
    Evade
    Registered Users Posts: 6,723 ✭✭✭Evade


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You don't get it on Earth since the proliferation of information. Once a race can really enter space?

    A lot of the proliferation of information came along with more advanced nations conquering the less advanced and defacto raising their level of technology.



    Just getting into space doesn't automatically make you the equal of every other space faring race. The NX Enterprise, United Earth's greatest technological achievement, was pretty quaint by the standards of some of the neighbouring species. Dominion weapon and transporter tech was vastly superior to most AQ races and the weapon issue was only remedied by capturing a Dominion ship, I don't think they ever matched the transporters.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    And they were able to cripple and then reprogram the Federations most powerful mobile computer, I don't buy that they had no access to technology.
    Maybe they were a race of software engineer savants. Take the best software engineer in the world and have him design an airplane, it would probably fly but wouldn't compare to what an aeronautical engineer could do.


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If they have that level of technology they would have been highjacking ships, bringing them home and stripping the new tech out.
    Getting technology and recreating or repairing it are very different things.


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There is always something to trade.
    Hence the willing. They may not have wanted to give up their one good thing or they could have traded for their tech and that's the best they could afford.


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    #363
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Evade wrote: »
    A lot of the proliferation of information came along with more advanced nations conquering the less advanced and defacto raising their level of technology.



    Just getting into space doesn't automatically make you the equal of every other space faring race. The NX Enterprise, United Earth's greatest technological achievement, was pretty quaint by the standards of some of the neighbouring species. Dominion weapon and transporter tech was vastly superior to most AQ races and the weapon issue was only remedied by capturing a Dominion ship, I don't think they ever matched the transporters.

    Except that Enterprise had Earth going from radiation soaked backwater to head of a Federation in 100 years.
    NX01 launched with missiles and has transporters, phase cannons and photon torpedoes by end of season 4
    The Dominion were an unknown up to that point, and the Federation were able to quickly enough catch up in a lot of areas, over the course of a few years.
    The races in this episode are shown to be space faring for quite some time.

    Evade wrote: »
    Maybe they were a race of software engineer savants. Take the best software engineer in the world and have him design an airplane, it would probably fly but wouldn't compare to what an aeronautical engineer could do.

    You're into the realm of trying to invent reason as to why though now, to fill in a massive missing.
    And they easily could have taken the ship, and killed the crew. They have shown ability to use it.
    Evade wrote: »
    Getting technology and recreating or repairing it are very different things.

    Except they show remarkable ability to understand/use the Federation's most advanced ship.
    Hell a 50 year old Oberth would have done them.
    Evade wrote: »
    Hence the willing. They may not have wanted to give up their one good thing or they could have traded for their tech and that's the best they could afford.

    Both sides of the conflict? When the station was a massive structure with 15,000 people on board?


    If this episode was portrayed as the last gasp of a loosing race, who put every final resource into this plan? Still would have been a crazy leap but at least it would be a bit better.
    As it stands that race could have captured an armada of Federation ships, in a single coordinated targeting of multiple crews.


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    #364
    Evade
    Registered Users Posts: 6,723 ✭✭✭Evade


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Except that Enterprise had Earth going from radiation soaked backwater to head of a Federation in 100 years.
    NX01 launched with missiles and has transporters, phase cannons and photon torpedoes by end of season 4
    Still quaint compared to Vulcan, Andorian, and Klingon ships.


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The races in this episode are shown to be space faring for quite some time.
    Like the Ferengi and Bajorans who despite being space faring for centuries longer that humans aren't more advanced.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    You're into the realm of trying to invent reason as to why though now, to fill in a massive missing.
    And they easily could have taken the ship, and killed the crew. They have shown ability to use it.
    Yes it is a plot hole and I'm speculating. Starting off with the crew slaughtered doesn't make for a very good episode plus with a living crew you've got a very good false flag attack.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Except they show remarkable ability to understand/use the Federation's most advanced ship.
    Hell a 50 year old Oberth would have done them.
    The one thing you can say about Federation ships is they are very user friendly. A five year old can use a tablet but I don't see many five year olds repairing or designing tablets.


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Both sides of the conflict? When the station was a massive structure with 15,000 people on board?
    Why not? Having different races at different rates of progression makes more sense than everyone getting to parity once they develop warp travel.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    If this episode was portrayed as the last gasp of a loosing race, who put every final resource into this plan? Still would have been a crazy leap but at least it would be a bit better.
    As it stands that race could have captured an armada of Federation ships, in a single coordinated targeting of multiple crews.
    Maybe, but I think the Federation might notice a whole bunch of ships slowly going missing in the same sector whereas stealing one and getting the mission done quickly might go unnoticed until it's too late.


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    #365
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,891 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    https://fanlore.org/wiki/Fanwank

    It was one episode I did enjoy a lot, but it does break down if you think too much about it. Even the last scene with Riker and Picard is a bit cringeworthy. "But Captain, with all their advanced capabilities, why did they..". Patrick Stewart: *deep sigh*, okay here we go...


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    #366
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 15,556 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Loved that episode and agree with the poster above the starting on episode off with the crew slaughtered would not have made a great episode. Maybe they could have had the crew moved somewhere be it on the ship in the cargo bay or off the ship somewhere.
    You have to laught at Worf do sitting in the Captains chair assuming he must be the Captain and that the ship is a warship.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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    #367
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭Rawr


    AMKC wrote: »
    You have to laught at Worf do sitting in the Captains chair assuming he must be the Captain and that the ship is a warship.

    conundrum3.jpg?resize=475%2C370&type=vertical

    Worf: "I am decorated as well"


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    #368
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    That's the thing. I love the characterisations of the crew coming to the fore. Especially Worf at the end resisting the "Fire" impulse, although I always did dislike basically using Ro for nothing but sexy time fluff.
    Just yeah massive plot chasms, that some clever writing would have averted (I am not being serious about killing the crew)


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    #369
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Riker gives out to Ro for wearing a Bajoran ear thing and makes her remove it but Troi is allowed to wear her pajamas on the Bridge and Worf has his sash, I wonder if he had special permission to wear one.


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    #370
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,891 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    The TOS miniskirts looked less ridiculous than some of the outfits 24th century women wore while on duty (Deanna Troi's loungewear and Seven Of Nine's catsuits). Jericho may have been a dick but he did the right thing by insisting Troi dress appropriately when on the bridge (I'm sure fans of her cleavage might not agree with me).

    Edit: T'Pol should probably get an honourable mention as the 22nd century representative.

    Interestingly enough, I've commented a few times on this thread (mainly in the context of himself and Shelby) about how Riker is generally a dick to women.


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    #371
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Stark wrote: »
    The TOS miniskirts looked less ridiculous than some of the outfits 24th century women wore while on duty (Deanna Troi's loungewear and Seven Of Nine's catsuits). Jericho may have been a dick but he did the right thing by insisting Troi dress appropriately when on the bridge (I'm sure fans of her cleavage might not agree with me).

    Edit: T'Pol should probably get an honourable mention as the 22nd century representative.

    Interestingly enough, I've commented a few times on this thread (mainly in the context of himself and Shelby) about how Riker is generally a dick to women.

    They really had a thing for catsuits in the TNG era shows didn't they? Almost as if it was mandated or something. I think only DS9 bucked that trend.

    What was weird in Enterprise was that although you had T'Pol wearing her Vulcan Officer catsuit uniform, as soon as she joined Earth Starfleet she was still in that catsuit...just with patches sewn in.

    Seemed like they were hell-bent to have a female cast member in a catsuit...even when she really should have been in the same Starfleet uniform as everyone else.


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    #372
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rawr wrote: »
    They really had a thing for catsuits in the TNG era shows didn't they? Almost as if it was mandated or something. I think only DS9 bucked that trend.

    What was weird in Enterprise was that although you had T'Pol wearing her Vulcan Officer catsuit uniform, as soon as she joined Earth Starfleet she was still in that catsuit...just with patches sewn in.

    Seemed like they were hell-bent to have a female cast member in a catsuit...even when she really should have been in the same Starfleet uniform as everyone else.

    DS9 almost got away then

    2e56c031b5150bd5143f67899bc75002.jpg


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    #373
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Riker is generally a dick to everyone I've noticed more and more. Passive-aggressive, petty etc

    Watching Genesis where Worf is working on his new weapon systems and the torpedo test goes wrong

    The torpedo is out of range."
    "Even for your newly improved phasers?" (in a mocking sarcastic tone)

    - Worf and Riker

    And compared to Picard

    Mr. Worf… I think that you should consider analyzing your new guidance system."

    - Picard


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    #374
    Evade
    Registered Users Posts: 6,723 ✭✭✭Evade


    Rawr wrote: »
    They really had a thing for catsuits in the TNG era shows didn't they? Almost as if it was mandated or something. I think only DS9 bucked that trend.
    Kira's 2nd uniform might qualify and Jadzia and Ezri's grey topped uniforms were borderline.
    99?cb=20121218035404&path-prefix=en


    I can't find any decent pictures of the Daxes.


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    #375
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    It was fadó fadó, when it was figured only repressed males watched these shows, while pre the internet, the prospect of a little titillation was viewed as a valid marketing move - again to entice the predominantly (straight) male audience. It's kinda mortifying to watch now, and sad that as strong a character as 7of9 was, that you have to preface with "no, it's not the catsuit" to sidestep the softcore element. DS9 wasn't immune mind, the ferenghi were usually the outlets for the more egregious "phwoar!" stuff (not least Profit and F'ing Lace)


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    #376
    Evade
    Registered Users Posts: 6,723 ✭✭✭Evade


    Or you could just say I like Seven and not feel weirdly ashamed of liking a character who is also attractive.


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    #377
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,891 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Cork Exile wrote:
    DS9 almost got away then

    Well in Leeta's case, the outfit was appropriate to the character and the role. She was working in a sleazy establishment after all.

    T'Pol, Kira, Seven of Nine and Troi were all bridge officers in one of the most respected organizations in the galaxy and in 3 out of 4 of the cases, high ranking bridge officers (Troi had rank of Lt. Cmdr, later promoted to full Commander).


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    #378
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I agree but I'm more targetting the producers and show runners as being sleazy as opposed to in universe


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    #379
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    So in Lower Decks, the one with all the junior officers, did anyone else expect Ben, the waiter to be evil or something? He seemed to know and interact with everyone and the camera sometimes focused in on him, especially when he's playing poker with the senior officers and smirking away


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    #380
    Evade
    Registered Users Posts: 6,723 ✭✭✭Evade


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    So in Lower Decks, the one with all the junior officers, did anyone else expect Ben, the waiter to be evil or something? He seemed to know and interact with everyone and the camera sometimes focused in on him, especially when he's playing poker with the senior officers and smirking away
    I wonder if Ben was originally written as Guinan but it had to be changed for some reason.


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    #381
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,215 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Just finished my run through of TNG last night.

    I started integrating DS9 in during the last season so will stick with that for a while before integrating in Voyager in S3 I suppose.

    I'd never really watched DS9 or Voyager at the time but had been a casual TNG viewer back in the day.

    My impressions overall;

    Firstly it looks fantastic, I think I read that they used actual film and it really shows when watching in HD. DS9 looks pretty awful in comparison TBH. Obviously the CGI can look ropey in places but that's to be expected in TV series of it's day.

    Patrick Stewart is the beating heart of the series and without him I doubt I would have watched through 7 season worth. He plays the character with the same gravitas that he would a Shakespeare character in a West-end play. There is no hamminess or knowing smirks to camera. It's a beautiful performance and can hold you captivated even amidst the silliness of some of the plots and dialogue.
    Bravo Captain!

    Supporting Cast - generally excellent, Riker, Data Worf all great. Geordie, Troy and the Crushers less so. Shoutout to John de Lancie as Q but I inwardly sighed whenever Troy's mother turned up.

    Notable Episodes - The Naked Now was a bizzare choice of episode to have as the second ever - we didn't even really know the characters never mind that they are supposedly acting out of character - weird.
    Q-Who has both Q and the Borg that's a winner of an episode.
    Can't remember the name but I really like the episode where Picard was trapped in the elevator with the kids, also the one where he's captured and tortured by the Cardasians was really powerful stuff.


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    #382
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,891 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Supporting Cast - generally excellent, Riker, Data Worf all great. Geordie, Troy and the Crushers less so. Shoutout to John de Lancie as Q but I inwardly sighed whenever Troy's mother turned up.

    She's even worse in DS9.

    Though I did enjoy the TNG episode where her life is threatened due to suppressing the memory of Deanna's dead older sister for too long. The reveal was quite powerful I thought.


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    #383
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Notable Episodes - The Naked Now was a bizzare choice of episode to have as the second ever - we didn't even really know the characters never mind that they are supposedly acting out of character - weird.

    3rd: Did you blank "Code of Honour" from your mind (rightfully so)

    Turbolift is "Disaster" no
    Cardassians "Chain of Command"?

    Ronnie Cox baby!!


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    #384
    Goodshape
    Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Deleted User wrote: »
    3rd: Did you blank "Code of Honour" from your mind (rightfully so)

    Other way around.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_(season_1)#Episodes

    And damn you for making me remember that episode.

    *shudder*


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