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01-09-2019, 23:48   #106
Fourier
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the smallest of atoms being proven to have the ability to be in more than one place at any one time
Quantum theory says there is a chance of detecting an atom in various places. It does not say that an atom is actually in all those places at the same time.

What is more extreme though is that this is because it says an "atom" is only a type of mark left in classical objects like experimental equipment, i.e. when it says there is a chance for an atom to be at position x, it really means there is a chance for a device placed at x to click.

You aren't made of atoms according to quantum theory. It's that what you are made of can present itself as atoms under certain conditions.

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Quantum is just unexplained like all the other things we can’t explain yet. And what about all the things we don’t even know about yet? Gods must be eyeing them is as hiding places for the future.
According to current research it is very different.

To be clear Quantum Mechanics is a gambling theory. It tells you the chances of seeing various outcomes or events when you interact with the microscopic world, given the information that you saw previous events. It doesn't actually tell you what is going on at the microscopic scale.

Due to certain theorems (Kochen-Specker, Bell, PBR, Ekart-Renner) it seems you cannot describe what is actually going on.

Last edited by Fourier; 01-09-2019 at 23:58.
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02-09-2019, 11:55   #107
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According to current research it is very different.

To be clear Quantum Mechanics is a gambling theory. It tells you the chances of seeing various outcomes or events when you interact with the microscopic world, given the information that you saw previous events. It doesn't actually tell you what is going on at the microscopic scale.

Due to certain theorems (Kochen-Specker, Bell, PBR, Ekart-Renner) it seems you cannot describe what is actually going on.
That’s grand. It can be as different as possible. It’s still absolutely no reason to create gods to explain it, any more than it was justifiable to invent gods to explain everything else we didn’t understand.

I’d say we should just keep
Exploring the quantum level of reality and see if we can learn how it works. Inventing gods to explain it, isn’t an explanation it’s giving up trying to understand it.
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02-09-2019, 12:10   #108
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That’s grand. It can be as different as possible. It’s still absolutely no reason to create gods to explain it, any more than it was justifiable to invent gods to explain everything else we didn’t understand.

I’d say we should just keep
Exploring the quantum level of reality and see if we can learn how it works. Inventing gods to explain it, isn’t an explanation it’s giving up trying to understand it.
Your working on the premis, we Invented god's. You need to reverse your thinking.
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02-09-2019, 12:17   #109
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That’s grand. It can be as different as possible. It’s still absolutely no reason to create gods to explain it, any more than it was justifiable to invent gods to explain everything else we didn’t understand.
I'm not discussing gods. Pointing out that it has a difference was not intended to support the notion of gods.

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I’d say we should just keep
Exploring the quantum level of reality and see if we can learn how it works
The point is the theorems strongly suggest you can't learn how it works. That's what's different about it, completely different about it compared to previous theories. It also offers no picture of what is going only, only a calculus for experimental outcomes, that's another major difference. Another major difference is the absence of reduction.
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02-09-2019, 12:28   #110
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Your working on the premis, we Invented god's. You need to reverse your thinking.
I suppose I would need evidence for gods in the first place. Do you have evidence for gods?
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02-09-2019, 12:37   #111
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I'm not discussing gods. Pointing out that it has a difference was not intended to support the notion of gods.


The point is the theorems strongly suggest you can't learn how it works. That's what's different about it, completely different about it compared to previous theories. It also offers no picture of what is going only, only a calculus for experimental outcomes, that's another major difference. Another major difference is the absence of reduction.
Fair enough. I didn’t think you were proposing gods as the answer.

Whether that’s what the theorems say or not, I’m sure we will continue to try to understand it. It might ultimately be unintelligible to us.

I remember a quantum scientist being asked whether we would ever understand it and he said something along the line of; if you could speak to a cat, do you think you could explain general relativity to it? Answer, probably not because the cat probably just doesn’t have the gray matter in its brain to understand it. So do you think you could teach quantum mechanics to a human? Maybe, maybe not. We might or might not have the gray matter to fathom it.

That’s genuinely fascinating to have a branch of science that might be pretty much impenetrable to humans because we’re just not smart enough. That’s class!
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02-09-2019, 12:50   #112
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Just to be clear quantum mechanics itself is comprehensible to human beings. The problem is that it's only a theory of how the microscopic reacts when you probe it, but it doesn't tell you anything about the microscopic itself. It's the microscopic itself that seems incomprehensible.
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03-09-2019, 09:36   #113
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Comprehensible to you maybe. But not to the rest of us.

See your message put a stop to the whole thread it was so confusing, and therefore unanswerable.
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03-09-2019, 09:48   #114
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Comprehensible to you maybe. But not to the rest of us.

See your message put a stop to the whole thread it was so confusing, and therefore unanswerable.
That's how difficult the subject is, I can't change that. You can't build insights off a subject you don't grasp.

Take a sentence you don't understand and I'd be happy to explain.
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03-09-2019, 09:50   #115
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Comprehensible to you maybe. But not to the rest of us.

See your message put a stop to the whole thread it was so confusing, and therefore unanswerable.
Not understanding something and not being able to explain it, isn’t a reason to invent gods as the explanation.
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03-09-2019, 10:03   #116
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Lol
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