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2017-21 help to buy scheme - megathread. All help to buy discussion here please

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    #182
    Monife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,014 ✭✭✭Monife


    RandomAccess wrote: »
    It's always been a builder grant, they know builders earn greater profits from the less basic houses. It wouldn't succeed in its true goal of incentivising development if it just targeted the lowest earners.

    Also more importantly,
    If they just targeted the lowest rung it would put people who haven't managed to save on an equal footing as those that have managed to scrimp and save to meet the requirements.

    It would be a kick in the face to those who followed the rules and would generate enormous anger and undermine trust in government and the central bank.

    Not necessarily all of those people scrimped and saved. I'd say a good chunk of them got help from parents/family. The government spun this "grant" as a help for first time buyer's who are having difficulty* saving the Central Bank's required 10 to 20% deposit and now they are back-tracking and giving a grant to almost "everyone in the audience"!!

    *This difficulty may be due to rents on any half decent house being around €2,000 and not having the option to live with mummy and daddy while you save a decent deposit!


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    #183
    Larsso30
    Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭Larsso30


    bleary wrote: »
    No its supposed to help developers build more.
    This 80% measure penalised responsible purchasers. Also self builds are still probably ruled out by it.

    To be honest if someone can't save a 10% deposit, should they be getting a mortgage? analysis of arrears have shown they are less likely to be able to cope over the course of the mortgage. They will have to deal with a number of things interest rate increases, employment & life changes etc.

    Everyone should have to save for a few years before a mortgage, it's part of understanding the commitment you are making.

    I know a lot of people who wish they were made do that rather than put themselves through the last ten years


    Trust me, Dublin rents far exceed most first time buyers mortgage repayments so I think I understand perfectly thanks very much!


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    #184
    Shedite27
    Registered Users Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Larsso30 wrote: »
    Trust me, Dublin rents far exceed most first time buyers mortgage repayments so I think I understand perfectly thanks very much!
    Wasn't for me, mortgage is much more.


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    #185
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    This scheme is a gift to builders and people who already signed a contract to buy a house.
    it,ll only push prices on new house up .It shows this government is short sighted and does not understand basic economics .
    We need increased supply in citys, urban area,s .
    it also helps rich people ,it should be limited to houses under 300k.


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    #186
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Larsso30 wrote: »
    Trust me, Dublin rents far exceed most first time buyers mortgage repayments so I think I understand perfectly thanks very much!

    Depends entirely on where and what you purchase.
    In most cases, in the Dublin area- despite astronomical rents- its still cheaper to rent than it is to buy (obviously this is subject to various caveats).


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    #187
    Monife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,014 ✭✭✭Monife


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Depends entirely on where and what you purchase.
    In most cases, in the Dublin area- despite astronomical rents- its still cheaper to rent than it is to buy (obviously this is subject to various caveats).

    Commuter belt is the worst at the moment. Minimum €1,600 to rent a house in Celbridge, Leixlip, Maynooth but the same house would cost less in mortgage repayments. Of course you have to factor in ongoing maintenance and repairs, interest rate increases etc but at the end of the day, you have an asset at the end of it.


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    #188
    conf101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭conf101


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Depends entirely on where and what you purchase.
    In most cases, in the Dublin area- despite astronomical rents- its still cheaper to rent than it is to buy (obviously this is subject to various caveats).

    Definitely not true. In some cases maybe, but not in most cases. I'm about to move to a 2-bed where my rent will be €1400 per month. If I were to buy the same place at the current market price my mortgage repayments would be in the region of €950/month.


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    #189
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,980 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Depends entirely on where and what you purchase.
    In most cases, in the Dublin area- despite astronomical rents- its still cheaper to rent than it is to buy (obviously this is subject to various caveats).

    Where we bought in Dublin rent on a 2 bed apartment is about 400-500 a month more expensive than our 3 bed semi D repayments with an 80% mortgage and there are no houses for rent at all so in our case much cheaper to buy than rent


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    #190
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,698 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    conf101 wrote: »
    Definitely not true. In some cases maybe, but not in most cases. I'm about to move to a 2-bed where my rent will be €1400 per month. If I were to buy the same place at the current market price my mortgage repayments would be in the region of €950/month.

    As an aside, this situation is exactly where the grant scheme is designed to help. i.e you could afford the repayments but would struggle to build up a deposit


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    #191
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Say you rent a small flat ,in dublin rents go up every few years .
    Your rent will lower than buying a house ,but you don,t have the comfort of living in a house and buying a house is a long term investment .of course it depends on exactly where you buy and where you rent.


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    #192
    T-b0n3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,459 ✭✭✭T-b0n3


    Back on topic:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/finance-bill-sets-mortgage-threshold-for-help-to-buy-scheme-1.2836955

    The LTV rate has been reduced to 70%. Still no change confirmed on the maximum house value.


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    #193
    conf101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭conf101


    StupidLikeAFox wrote: »
    As an aside, this situation is exactly where the grant scheme is designed to help. i.e you could afford the repayments but would struggle to build up a deposit

    You're dead right. However, the fact that the scheme only applies to newly built houses makes it too restrictive imo


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    #194
    morrga
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭morrga


    If they go the 70% route and then reduce the threshold to 400k it would be laughable hypocrisy whereby they will eliminate people who need it and give it to people who don't it. The idea was to help people get to their 20% not help people already at 20%.


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    #195
    Monife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,014 ✭✭✭Monife


    morrga wrote: »
    If they go the 70% route and then reduce the threshold to 400k it would be laughable hypocrisy whereby they will eliminate people who need it and give it to people who don't it. The idea was to help people get to their 20% not help people already at 20%.

    They definitely need to reduce the threshold though, 600k was laughable, people looking to buy houses at that price do not need help. I'm disgusted that the LTV has been reduced but won't mind as much if they reduce the threshold.


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    #196
    bleary
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭bleary


    morrga wrote: »
    If they go the 70% route and then reduce the threshold to 400k it would be laughable hypocrisy whereby they will eliminate people who need it and give it to people who don't it. The idea was to help people get to their 20% not help people already at 20%.

    No, the idea was never to help "buyers who need it", the idea was to create a frenzy of demand for new builds and then sit back and cross their fingers hoping that builders will start developing.

    last night I heard Damien English minister on the radio saying this was introduced because no mortgages were available to FTB,despite central bank statistics showing mortgage lending increasing again in the last quarter.

    This is effectively supporting and pushing 100% mortgages. Well done Ireland , oh the Germans must be pissing themselves laughing at us.


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    #197
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,980 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    bleary wrote: »

    This is effectively supporting and pushing 100% mortgages. Well done Ireland , oh the Germans must be pissing themselves laughing at us.

    Ehhh how? It's encouraging mortgages of between 70-95% with a deposit of 5-25%

    Lowering the minimum LTV encourages more deposit


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    #198
    stickman22
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭stickman22


    Does anyone have any idea how it will work. Our case is we have have signed contracts (just this week)for a new build to be completed in spring, how do we go about getting the rebate or do we need to wait until the mortgage is being drawn down. We really don't understand much about the ins & outs except we qualify now as we are taking out a 76% mortgage..


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    #199
    TheUnderfaker
    Registered Users Posts: 275 ✭✭TheUnderfaker


    stickman22 wrote: »
    Does anyone have any idea how it will work. Our case is we have have signed contracts (just this week)for a new build to be completed in spring, how do we go about getting the rebate or do we need to wait until the mortgage is being drawn down. We really don't understand much about the ins & outs except we qualify now as we are taking out a 76% mortgage..

    I don't think applications will be open until January. By then I think there may be a facility on revenue.ie to sort it all out. It should become clearer closer to the time


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    #200
    stickman22
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭stickman22


    Great thanks Undertaker, the house won't be ready until spring so it will be March at the earliest that we will be drawing down I reckon


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    #201
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Does it still require a form 12 to be completed for the past 4 years or will they take just P21 as being tax compliant for PAYE workers? The online system only seems to want to go back 3 years, so I imagine it will be alot of paperwork for revenue if they do.


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    #202
    Cian53
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Cian53


    In our case the house is down on paper as a new build but was built by a person in his spare time...jus wondering where we wil stand now that house wasn't built by registered builder but is a first time buy and new house for us?


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    #203
    Grassey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    Pretty sure I saw something referenced last week where self build also were in scope. Or houses that were build pre July 19th but hadn't had anyone live in them since completion, and contract for sale signed after July 19th would be in scope.


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    #204
    Pedro32561
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭Pedro32561


    stickman22 wrote: »
    Does anyone have any idea how it will work. Our case is we have have signed contracts (just this week)for a new build to be completed in spring, how do we go about getting the rebate or do we need to wait until the mortgage is being drawn down. We really don't understand much about the ins & outs except we qualify now as we are taking out a 76% mortgage..

    According to the Finance Bill, you will be able to make an application to the Revenue from 1st January 2017, providing various details, including the contract you have signed. In your case the grant will be paid directly to your bank account. For others who will sign contracts post 1st January 2017, the payment will be made directly to the contractor.


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    #205
    stickman22
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭stickman22


    Brilliant Pedro thanks for that


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    #206
    cronos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭cronos


    Can't find anything in the Finance bill preventing you from taking a loan of LTV of 70%, then paying off say another 20% the next day in lump sums with the bank? Would everyone read it that way?


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    #207
    Pedro32561
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭Pedro32561


    cronos wrote: »
    Can't find anything in the Finance bill preventing you from taking a loan of LTV of 70%, then paying off say another 20% the next day in lump sums with the bank? Would everyone read it that way?

    True. I couldn't see anything in there that would prevent that.


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    #208
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Pedro32561 wrote: »
    True. I couldn't see anything in there that would prevent that.

    Same here and if I were in that boat, I certainly would. Would seem idiotic not too. Although I can see stupidity and comfort over riding common sense and people doing this and saddling them with a higher mortgage after blowing a load of the spare dosh.


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    #209
    cronos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭cronos


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Same here and if I were in that boat, I certainly would. Would seem idiotic not too. Although I can see stupidity and comfort over riding common sense and people doing this and saddling them with a higher mortgage after blowing a load of the spare dosh.

    That's why having a LTV limit is a stupid idea in the first place. Only people who will benefit will be the banks.


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    #210
    Eireann81
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭Eireann81


    Grassey wrote: »
    Pretty sure I saw something referenced last week where self build also were in scope. Or houses that were build pre July 19th but hadn't had anyone live in them since completion, and contract for sale signed after July 19th would be in scope.

    I'm hoping that's the case. Plenty of houses around that were built years ago, but never finished. Makes sense to get these houses sold, finished, and occupied.


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    #211
    flashforward
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭flashforward


    Eireann81 wrote: »
    I'm hoping that's the case. Plenty of houses around that were built years ago, but never finished. Makes sense to get these houses sold, finished, and occupied.

    Does anyone know when this will be clarified? When will an official document be released for this?


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