2017-21 help to buy scheme - megathread. All help to buy discussion here please

morrga · 11-10-2016 11:28pm

Konata wrote: »

Is it specified somewhere that you have to be married to be eligible?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/htb/index.html

athtrasna · 11-10-2016 11:38pm

The Finance Bill will be published next week and will clarify details.

It only applies to new builds as it is designed as a stimulus to the construction industry to start building again.

It can't be backdated before 19 July as that would do nothing to stimulate the building of more new homes.

AtomicHorror · 11-10-2016 11:44pm

My wife and I purchased a new build with a mortgage LTV of 90%. Taxes all in order for both applicants for the previous 4 years. Signed the Building Agreement in the last week of June, closed the sale in August. So am I right in thinking that we just missed out on this by less than a month?

brian2614 · 12-10-2016 7:41am

This is my situation...

I bought my 1st house this year,new build @ €150K(obviously I don't live in Dublin) paid my deposit of €15K and signed after the 19 of July I think(waiting on solicitor to get back to me)

Is it from the moment you sign and get the keys in your hand or when the morgagte is drawn down

Am I entitled to this???

Thanks in advance

ted1 · 12-10-2016 9:14am

athtrasna wrote: »

The Finance Bill will be published next week and will clarify details.

It only applies to new builds as it is designed as a stimulus to the construction industry to start building again.

It can't be backdated before 19 July as that would do nothing to stimulate the building of more new homes.

There is no VAT in a second hand home , so you can't get a VAT rebate. That's why it's only on a new build.
If it was available on second hand homes then it would be a grant/ subsidy and be a cost to the tax payers.

ted1 · 12-10-2016 9:16am

durtybit wrote: »

So are we saying this scheme is basically targeting a minority who
a. Pay a lot in taxes
b. Only Build (not buy)
c. Fund 20% of the build
d. Mostly live in high income areas where property prices are already at a premium

Would I be wrong to say this is more like a Help-a-few-people-to-build scheme rather than help-to-buy scheme?

Yes you would be wrong.

it's not just for self builds , it's for people who buy a house in a development that is newly built.

asteroids over berlin · 12-10-2016 10:06am

guys, it is an initiative to encourage developers to build more homes as there is an argument going on where developers state the cost to build versus the profit/risk is too high and hence developers are not building in great numbers and some aren't building at all. The extra 20k is targeted to enhance the profit for developers. The government view is probably after 4 - 5 years there should be a lot more houses for everyone etc (should developers take up the plan etc) and houses become slightly more affordable, i don't use slightly lightly though!

i too, at first, thought it was to help first time buyers, whilst it may help a minority, the plan is to encourage development!

lawred2 · 12-10-2016 10:09am

I do not for the life of me understand why this is backdated..

Those people who have closed since Jul 2016 did so under the understanding the current rules and framework. Now they are to be handed upto 20k..

I get it going forward but retrospective.. I do not get how that is supposed to stimulate demand.

68 lost souls · 12-10-2016 10:14am

lawred2 wrote: »

I do not for the life of me understand why this is backdated..

Those people who have closed since Jul 2016 did so under the understanding the current rules and framework. Now they are to be handed upto 20k..

I get it going forward but retrospective.. I do not get how that is supposed to stimulate demand.

The scheme was proposed on that date publicly and it was announced them that any measures in the budget would be back dated so people bought knowing those rules and framework

lawred2 · 12-10-2016 10:17am

68 lost souls wrote: »

The scheme was proposed on that date publicly and it was announced them that any measures in the budget would be back dated so people bought knowing those rules and framework

the details were not announced - only a vague plan. So no - people did not buy knowing the rules and framework.

68 lost souls · 12-10-2016 10:23am

lawred2 wrote: »

the details were not announced - only a vague plan. So no - people did not buy knowing the rules and framework.

They were told it would be back dated to then and knew that there would at least be some assistance.

ted1 · 12-10-2016 10:26am

lawred2 wrote: »

the details were not announced - only a vague plan. So no - people did not buy knowing the rules and framework.

It would have killed the market if they didn't say if they would back date it.

In the past there was a similar initiative planned and no houses closed between the announcement of a proposed scheme and the date it took affect

lawred2 · 12-10-2016 10:28am

ted1 wrote: »

lawred2 wrote: »

the details were not announced - only a vague plan. So no - people did not buy knowing the rules and framework.

It would have killed the market if they didn't say if they would back date it.

In the past there was a similar initiative planned and no houses closed between the announcement of a proposed scheme and the date it took affect

Fair point.

Don't announce it then. But then politicians need their photo shoots.

cronos · 12-10-2016 10:59am

lawred2 wrote: »

Fair point.

Don't announce it then. But then politicians need their photo shoots.

Can also be useful to see if it's a useful approach from people other than those in government. Could be done behind the scenes but would probably end up being leaked anyway. Better to assume it would be leaked and just back date it when it comes to the stage too many people know about it.

StupidLikeAFox · 12-10-2016 11:09am

Anybody know how it will actually work?

In the process of buying a house atm - have the deposit saved and booking deposit down (no contracts signed which means the deal isnt done yet). Do I go ahead and apply for a PAYE refund and get the cash into my hand? Or does the refund somehow go directly to the bank/developer in advance?

EDIT:

awec wrote: »

Depends when you plan on buying.

The scheme opens in January so if you buy before then you'll be claiming the money back retrospectively. If you buy after that you will get the money to use as part of your deposit with the bank.

Ah, this answers my question! Hopefully the builder doesn't pull out here and wait it out for a higher price

Itchap3 · 12-10-2016 11:46am

I don't understand why people who signed contracts before July 16th are giving out that it's unfair they don't qualify for this.
They signed contracts before this was even announced, so would have not factored this rebate into their plans. It seems people are annoyed they're not getting handed 20,000 which they mistakenly thought they would.

Michael D Not Higgins · 12-10-2016 11:48am

Stheno wrote: »

An individual who is married to someone else earning 36k who is also earning the same, will end up paying 4.5k in PAYE every year, which means that they will have paid 18k in the previous four years, so thats the limit they can claim back

http://download.pwc.com/ie/budget-2016/result.html?status=3&grosssalary=36000&spousesalary=0&salary2=0&age=&salary3=0&prsicategory=1&pensions=&investments=&otherincome=&companycarvalue=&mileage=0&healthbik=&healthadult=0&healthchild=0&clubsbik=&otherbik=&prefloanmortgage=N&mortgagerelief=N&firsttimebuyer=N&loaninterestpaid=&loaninterestrate=&propertyband=0&localauth=0&Submit=Calculate+My+Tax

That's a couple who are married and earning 72k

You need to hit 90k for a married couple to qualify for 20k over four years.

Are they not paying 4.5k tax EACH a year and would then be well over the 20k limit for rebate?

Shelga · 12-10-2016 12:39pm

Am I right in saying that as someone who has lived in the UK since 2011 (recession graduate), but really want to move home early next year, I will see F all benefit from this scheme as I haven't been paying income tax in Ireland?

If it only applies to new builds anyway, surely hardly anyone is going to benefit?? Apologies if these questions have been answered already, in a bit of a rush on my phone.

68 lost souls · 12-10-2016 12:41pm

Shelga wrote: »

Am I right in saying that as someone who has lived in the UK since 2011 (recession graduate), but really want to move home early next year, I will see F all benefit from this scheme as I haven't been paying income tax in Ireland?

If it only applies to new builds anyway, surely hardly anyone is going to benefit?? Apologies if these questions have been answered already, in a bit of a rush on my phone.

Yes you are right about living abroad ant not paying taxes.

Lots of people are buying new homes it will benefit them and free up the old homes for the rental market. In one area of Dublin there have been 3 multiunit developments on sale this year consisting of several hundred units. Possibly close to 500-600? Thats just in one stretch of road.

schinkowski · 12-10-2016 12:45pm

Does anyone know how strict they would be with the 80% LTV? The official documentation doesn't say it. What if you get a 75% or 79% LTV?

Graham · 12-10-2016 12:57pm

lawred2 wrote: »

I do not for the life of me understand why this is backdated..

Those people who have closed since Jul 2016 did so under the understanding the current rules and framework. Now they are to be handed upto 20k..

I get it going forward but retrospective.. I do not get how that is supposed to stimulate demand.

If it hadn't been backdated, there would have been an immediate halt on new build sales between the date of the proposal and the budget.

By announcing that any benefits would apply retrospectively from the proposal date, new-build sales continued as normal.

Graham · 12-10-2016 12:59pm

schinkowski wrote: »

Does anyone know how strict they would be with the 80% LTV? ?

I would expect 80% means 80%.

schinkowski wrote: »

What if you get a 75% or 79% LTV?

You get nothing.

Carlos Orange · 12-10-2016 1:06pm

Graham wrote: »

You get nothing.

Assuming you haven't finalised your mortgage you get to borrow the extra 5% at little to no cost to you. *
You might need to too since most other people will have 5% more to spend.

* interest rate might be higher and complicate the calculation

Graham · 12-10-2016 1:28pm

psinno wrote: »

Assuming you haven't finalised your mortgage you get to borrow the extra 5% at little to no cost to you. *
You might need to too since most other people will have 5% more to spend.

* interest rate might be higher and complicate the calculation

* mortgage provider may not agree larger loan.

Shelga · 12-10-2016 2:28pm

This is a load of s**t for people like me who were forced to emigrate, there is zero incentive to move home really. Why couldn't they just top up savings via a Help To Buy scheme like in UK.

Although I don't even agree with those, ultimately government interference just seems to artificially inflate prices.

Sigh. Will I ever get to move home and have my own place. :-/

Shedite27 · 12-10-2016 2:37pm

Shelga wrote: »

This is a load of s**t for people like me who were forced to emigrate, there is zero incentive to move home really. Why couldn't they just too up savings via a Help To Buy scheme like in UK.

Although I don't even agree with those, ultimately government interference just seems to artificially inflate prices.

Sigh. Will I ever get to move home and have my own place. -/

There's enough people who stayed in Ireland, went through job cuts, wage freezes, rent hikes and tax increases that need to be helped out first. This does that.

We'll get around to your welcome home invite any day now.

ted1 · 12-10-2016 2:41pm

Shelga wrote: »

This is a load of s**t for people like me who were forced to emigrate, there is zero incentive to move home really. Why couldn't they just top up savings via a Help To Buy scheme like in UK.

Although I don't even agree with those, ultimately government interference just seems to artificially inflate prices.

Sigh. Will I ever get to move home and have my own place. :-/

People like you who emigrated had it easy, it's the people that stayed behind had to pick up the pieces. USC, water charges, increase charges across the board , scaled back public services etc.

If you are not part of the system, how can you expect help from the system.

athtrasna · 12-10-2016 2:41pm

Shelga wrote: »

This is a load of s**t for people like me who were forced to emigrate, there is zero incentive to move home really. Why couldn't they just top up savings via a Help To Buy scheme like in UK.

Although I don't even agree with those, ultimately government interference just seems to artificially inflate prices.

Sigh. Will I ever get to move home and have my own place. :-/

It's not designed to incentivise migration, it's apparently designed to encourage development.

Michael D Not Higgins · 12-10-2016 2:42pm

Shelga wrote: »

This is a load of s**t for people like me who were forced to emigrate, there is zero incentive to move home really.

You can't please everyone. The backlash after Mary Mitchell O'Connor suggested there should be a tax incentive to get emigrés to move home on boards and elsewhere was telling. The usual response was "how come people who left the country get the benefit while I toiled away through the additional taxes and burden of the recession?"

I think the best way they could have done it was offer a tax credit for the subsequent 4 years. That gives people a drip feed of the rebate which doesn't affect the purchase price and also benefits returning people buying their first home. But that doesn't help the construction industry.

Really, this is the only palatable way to give the construction industry a grant to kickstart some additional development.

BailMeOut · 12-10-2016 2:45pm

does first time buyer mean first time buyer in Ireland or anywhere. I bought a home a long time ago in USA while living there so would I qualify?

2017-21 help to buy scheme - megathread. All help to buy discussion here please

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