STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

paddy147 · 15-09-2011 2:14pm #1

The amount of threads getting posted each day about stoves is unreal and taking away from other plumbing issues.

Can I suggest to the members and also the mods a dedicated "sticky" thread about stoves and nothing else.

Thanks.:)

Hi Folks. This sticky has been suggested by a regular poster and contributed to quite well. It seems to have generated a lot of interest. While advertising is not permitted under forum charter a balanced view of multiple suppliers is allowed. The rule of thumb is if you are unsure just ask. But keeping it simple and discussing the techanical details of multiple suppliers will be safe. Keep pricing out of the thread and only reply if requested to by PM -Personal message. An instant permant ban will result for breach of charter on advertising.

Stove Fan · 15-09-2011 4:12pm

Sounds a great idea:)

Stove Fan:)

Joey the lips · 17-09-2011 4:31pm

If someone writes me a thread on the selection of stoves i will sticky it.

Make it with good detail and it will save questions.

Caitriona · 17-09-2011 4:42pm

As someone who's partly responsible for the number of stove threads I can only agree

Sorry!

Stove Fan · 18-09-2011 12:49am

Buying a stove is not only expensive but has to be sized correctly in order to heat your room and rads if a boiler stove.

You need to find out what size boiler stove will suit your home and what heat output is need for where the stove is being installed. You don't want to be too hot in the room with the stove so closing up the fire and so your radiators go cold or colder. There has to be the right balance between room heating and radiator heating.

Any stove showroom would be happy to advice on what kw size is needed to heat your room. For a boiler stove it would be a good idea to get a plumber or heating engineer in to calculate the heat requirements of your home or radiators if already installed.
You can do a very basic calculation yourselves by measuring your existing radiators and noting if they are doubles or single panel and comparing the size to an online radiator manufacturer table of sizes and outputs. Add each radiator output up and this will give you a quide to the boiler size required. Dont forget to add 3kw to the figure for a standard sized hot water cylinder.

What to look for in a stove

When looking at a stove decide if you want a multifuel stove or wood burner only. A woodburner can only burn wood and is cheaper to buy as has no grate to burn coal. If only burning wood it burns best in a woodburner only as there is more room for the wood as there is no grate.
A multifuel stove would be the most popular.
When viewing a stove check that the door(s) close and open nicely and that the welds or castings have a good fit/finish, and has good door rope seals. Basically have a good look. Ask about the length of manufacturers guarante as some are only a year and some a lifetime. Ask where the stove was made and to what standards, BS en etc. Ask about the availability of spares for your stove and the various prices. Grate, door glass, firebricks etc. Compare different stove manufacturers and try to buy a known make. Try and see a lit model of the stove you like and get the shop to demonstate the controls and use. Ask friends and neighbours for their stove recommendations and installers/merchants. Most stoves have Airwash to keep the stove glass clean. Some stove manufacturers have secondary burn at the rear of the fire. A tube with holes in it that ignites the gasses for a more complete burn. Nice flame picture with this feature:)

Plumbing in. A quide
Always seek quidance or better still employ a plumber!!

Your boiler stove must be installed on an open vented system. The main important items are:

Feed and expansion tank (a tank usually in the loft to supply cold water to your radiators)

Gravity circulation to hot water cylinder. This is where the cylinder is higher than the stove and the water circulates itself through the large 1 inch pipes. The water in the boiler and pipework get hotter and therefore less dense and therefore rises up to the cylinder and the cooler water being heavier sinks down to the stove and then repeats itself and creates it's own circulation.

Heat leak radiator. Used on the gravity circuit as well. In the event of a powercut the hotwater in the stoves boiler would have somewhere to dissipate the heat to the heat leak radiator without the need for a pump. Especially if the hot water in the hot water cylinder was already hot.

Safety valve near the boiler. If the feed and vent pipe were to get blocked it's an extra safety device. Spring loaded to discharge boiling water and the water that was lost would be refilled automatically by the cold feed and expansion tank, thus cooling the stoves boiler.

A pump to circulate the water around the radiators controlled by a pipe stat to limit the condensation on the back boiler. Pipe stat to be set at no less than 40 degrees.

If purchasing a boiler stove consider a thermostatically controlled model. The thermostat self regulates the air supply (opens/closes the draft) and saves you regulating the temperature of the radiator yourself manually. It has a dial with different settings. A lot less work for you:) Just add fuel and leave the stove to regulate the heat output itself.

Cast iron or steel stove?

Cast Iron stoves have a number of advantages.

Can be made into interesting shapes
retains and radiates heat long after the fire is out.

Disadvantages are.
Take a bit longer to heat up.
Heavier to move.
Cast iron can crack.
As the stove is made in sections and bolted together the seals and joins can leak in air.

Steel stoves.

Advantages.
Heats up quicker
More airtight as steel body is fully welded.
Can resist high temperatures.
Lighter to move.
Less fragile.

Disadvantages.
Does not retain heat once fire is out.
Can distort and split.
Can't be made into nice shapes like cast iron.

There are simply loads of stoves to choose from.
This site has reviews of different stoves by owners.
www.whatstove.co.uk

Don't forget that stoves should be fitted in accordance with building regulations and stove manufacturers instructions.
Don't forget the required air supply. Either direct air supply to stoves with this feature or an air vent into the room. The size required will be in the stoves installation manual. Don't forget to fit a carbon monoxide alarm in the same room as the stove. Mandatory in the UK now and could save your life.

If you are not competent in the installation seek the services of a stove installer!!

Please feel free to add anything that I may of missed:)

Stove Fan:)

Mods, please edit if needed:)

Rob_talisman · 19-09-2011 3:31pm

This is great.

Im just seriously concidering putting in a multistove in for winter.

Im thinking about the Hunter Kestrel 5. Has anyone any experiance with this or any advice?

I currently have a gas fire in place so will be removing it. widening the whole and getting it bricked out.

Ive contacted a local Hetas installer about pulling out the old flue liner and putting a new one in (he recommended a 904/316 liner.)

Stove Fan · 19-09-2011 5:24pm

Rob_talisman wrote: »

This is great.

Im just seriously concidering putting in a multistove in for winter.

Im thinking about the Hunter Kestrel 5. Has anyone any experiance with this or any advice?

I currently have a gas fire in place so will be removing it. widening the whole and getting it bricked out.

Ive contacted a local Hetas installer about pulling out the old flue liner and putting a new one in (he recommended a 904/316 liner.)

Hi:)Hunter are a reasonable make and are reasonably priced at under £500 for the kestrel. It looks ok for the money. The only thing that is rather mean is only a 1 year guarante on the body:mad: Make sure the glass is not curved as it's much more expensive to replace than flat glass.
http://www.firesonline.co.uk/acatalog/Hunter-Kestrel-5-Multi-fuel-Stove.html
The other stove for under £500 is the villager chelsea. 3 year quarantee. Go for the double door version as the one piece (solo model) glass is curved and costs £65.00 from villager.
http://www.firesonline.co.uk/acatalog/Villager_Chelsea_Duo_Stove.html
If you had a bit more money about £100 more then consider the dunsley highlander 5 if the main use is burning coal. Excellent make.
http://www.firesonline.co.uk/acatalog/Dunsley_Highlander_5_Multi-fuel_Stove.html

I dont think you would be dissapointed with the hunter or villager. Very similar quality. Dunsley quality and function would be far superior to the hunter and villager. Better air inlets and seals and more heavy construction, just a better stove.

Stove Fan:)

Rob_talisman · 19-09-2011 6:47pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Rob_talisman wrote: »

This is great.

Im just seriously concidering putting in a multistove in for winter.

Im thinking about the Hunter Kestrel 5. Has anyone any experiance with this or any advice?

I currently have a gas fire in place so will be removing it. widening the whole and getting it bricked out.

Ive contacted a local Hetas installer about pulling out the old flue liner and putting a new one in (he recommended a 904/316 liner.)

Hi:)Hunter are a reasonable make and are reasonably priced at under £500 for the kestrel. It looks ok for the money. The only thing that is rather mean is only a 1 year guarante on the body:mad: Make sure the glass is not curved as it's much more expensive to replace than flat glass.
http://www.firesonline.co.uk/acatalog/Hunter-Kestrel-5-Multi-fuel-Stove.html
The other stove for under £500 is the villager chelsea. 3 year quarantee. Go for the double door version as the one piece (solo model) glass is curved and costs £65.00 from villager.
http://www.firesonline.co.uk/acatalog/Villager_Chelsea_Duo_Stove.html
If you had a bit more money about £100 more then consider the dunsley highlander 5 if the main use is burning coal. Excellent make.
http://www.firesonline.co.uk/acatalog/Dunsley_Highlander_5_Multi-fuel_Stove.html

I dont think you would be dissapointed with the hunter or villager. Very similar quality. Dunsley quality and function would be far superior to the hunter and villager. Better air inlets and seals and more heavy construction, just a better stove.

Stove Fan:)

Thank you for the reply. Over the hunter and villager what would be better ( went for hunter as my last name I's hunter lol)

I liked the openness of the kestrel single door over double doors tbh.

Stove Fan · 19-09-2011 10:37pm

Rob_talisman wrote: »

Thank you for the reply. Over the hunter and villager what would be better ( went for hunter as my last name I's hunter lol)

I liked the openness of the kestrel single door over double doors tbh.

They are very much the same quality wise. If you can view both that would be ideal.

I have had 3 villager stoves and have been very happy with them. villager is owned by arada . I have never owned a hunter but have a look at both hunter and villager reviews by owners. The only thing I would say with both is buy the optional flue damper if you want to keep the fire in overnight:)

www.whatstove.co.uk

Stove Fan:)

Rob_talisman · 19-09-2011 10:55pm

Thanks

Yup had already planned for the Dampener

Rob_talisman · 20-09-2011 9:47am

Unfortunatley neither of those two stoves are reviewed on that site...

Good news is the hunter glass is flat, no curves and replacement is <£20.

Hmmm decisions desicions.

SeaFields · 20-09-2011 3:47pm

We are trying to decide on whether to fit a non-boiler or boiler stove at the moment. There is already oil central heating in the house but we have plenty of turf so either way we'll be fitting a stove.

Is it possible to fit a boiler stove to compliment the oil heating? Be it that we would be able to switch from one to the other for heating everything or just use one for rads and one for water?

And is it a big job/ expensive to install the boiler stove if we already have a heating system in place? The house is a three bedroomed bungalow with ten rads varying in size. The hot water tank is about two metres from the fire place across the hallway and through two walls.

Any input / past experience welcome

Stove Fan · 20-09-2011 5:09pm

Rob_talisman wrote: »

Unfortunatley neither of those two stoves are reviewed on that site...

Good news is the hunter glass is flat, no curves and replacement is <£20.

Hmmm decisions desicions.

The glass being flat on the hunter is a big plus and cheap for it's size:).

The Kestrel is a new model launched October 2009.

The only reviews near that size are the hunter herald 5. Not really a lot different I would of thought. Only Door and air inlets.

http://www.whatstove.co.uk/hunter-stoves/hunter-herald-5-slimline-stove.html This is for the slimline hunter herald 5 but not the kestrel!!

The villager chelsea is known as the solo/duo.
http://www.whatstove.co.uk/villager-stoves/villager-solo/duo.html

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 20-09-2011 5:28pm

SeaFields wrote: »

We are trying to decide on whether to fit a non-boiler or boiler stove at the moment. There is already oil central heating in the house but we have plenty of turf so either way we'll be fitting a stove.

Is it possible to fit a boiler stove to compliment the oil heating? Be it that we would be able to switch from one to the other for heating everything or just use one for rads and one for water?

And is it a big job/ expensive to install the boiler stove if we already have a heating system in place? The house is a three bedroomed bungalow with ten rads varying in size. The hot water tank is about two metres from the fire place across the hallway and through two walls.

Any input / past experience welcome

Fitting a boiler stove sounds very possible as you seem to have a hot water cylinder on an open vented system although through several walls. Can't be fitted easily on a sealed system.
The only problem I see is that you really need coal as well as the turf to get the rads hot.
As regards cost I have no idea, depends on how much the stove is and how much plumbing is involved. I would say 2-3000euro!!:eek: I would get some quotes in.

You may find you are better off just fitting a non boiler stove and use the turf only to heat the room and a bit more. Any extra heat would spread around the house anyway with the door(s) open.
If you have TRV'S thermostatic rad valves fitted any extra heat from the stove would warm other rooms up and the trv's would turn the rads off/down and reduce the oil usage:).

Stove Fan:)

Macano31 · 20-09-2011 10:43pm

Hi
Anyone have experience with the Blacksmith stoves. I am thinking of installing the Blacksmith Forge. They seem to be built to German specifications Any advice appreciated?
Thanks

Stove Fan · 20-09-2011 11:03pm

Macano31 wrote: »

Hi
Anyone have experience with the Blacksmith stoves. I am thinking of installing the Blacksmith Forge. They seem to be built to German specifications Any advice appreciated?
Thanks

I don't know anything about them but the person we bought our house from has the blacksmith forge boiler stove in their home. I should be seeing them in a week or two. I will ask them what they think of it:)

Stove Fan:)

Macano31 · 21-09-2011 9:09am

Thanks looking forward to the info

Rob_talisman · 21-09-2011 9:23am

Well I've ordered the Hunter stove. Should arrive in a weeks time. Fingers crossed.

MicraBoy · 21-09-2011 2:54pm

Does any one know where I can buy kiln dried logs for a stove in Dublin?

Stove Fan · 21-09-2011 3:52pm

Rob_talisman wrote: »

Well I've ordered the Hunter stove. Should arrive in a weeks time. Fingers crossed.

Excellent:) Let us know how you get on:D

Stove Fan:)

bungaro79 · 21-09-2011 9:06pm

have seen a stanley oisin on special and the flue installing kit is about an extra €100. the oisin seems to be the perfect output heatwise for our place as its small room and we;re not looking for one to use with a back boiler.

can anyone tell me what it would be for someone to install it???

Stove Fan · 21-09-2011 9:41pm

bungaro79 wrote: »

have seen a stanley oisin on special and the flue installing kit is about an extra €100. the oisin seems to be the perfect output heatwise for our place as its small room and we;re not looking for one to use with a back boiler.

can anyone tell me what it would be for someone to install it???

Hi:) We really need more info of your fireplace/chimney.

What do you want to create?
Fireplace alterations needed?
Chimney lined/ unlined?
If unlined is the chimney on the roof have easy access?
Are hearth alterations required? 12 inches infront of stove 6 inches to the side.

Stove Fan:)

bungaro79 · 22-09-2011 10:08pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) We really need more info of your fireplace/chimney.

What do you want to create?
Fireplace alterations needed?
Chimney lined/ unlined?
If unlined is the chimney on the roof have easy access?
Are hearth alterations required? 12 inches infront of stove 6 inches to the side.

Stove Fan:)

not sure what you mean about what i want to create?! tbh just looking for a simple stove that i can heat the tv room with! we have an electric fire in the fireplace which we never use.
i'm after taking the measurements of the stove and we wouldn't have 12 inches in front (if we were putting it on the marble of the fireplace floor) so does this mean that its a non-runner?? i assume you don't put it actually into the fireplace as the heat coming out the side would be wasted???

thanks for your reply sotve fan

Stove Fan · 22-09-2011 10:41pm

bungaro79 wrote: »

not sure what you mean about what i want to create?! tbh just looking for a simple stove that i can heat the tv room with! we have an electric fire in the fireplace which we never use.
i'm after taking the measurements of the stove and we wouldn't have 12 inches in front (if we were putting it on the marble of the fireplace floor) so does this mean that its a non-runner?? i assume you don't put it actually into the fireplace as the heat coming out the side would be wasted???

thanks for your reply sotve fan

Yes the hearth would need to be altered to have 12 inches in front of the stove. You can fit it into the fireplace providing there is enough clearance around it for building regs and to let the heat escape from the stove. 6 inches to each side and 12 inches above. Get a stove installer to look at your hearth as if the hearth is ok you may be able to have an inset stove built in.

Stove Fan:)

Aquos76 · 23-09-2011 11:29pm

Does anyone know definitely whats the story with installing a stove insert in a timber surround fireplace? At this stage Ive spoken with so many different people but no one has been able to give me an answer.

This is our fireplace

and Ive been informed that there are special adaptors available to allow me to insert any of the standard insert stoves then, but there is absolutely no mention of timber surrounds

So my question is, If I go down this route will I be able to then put in a stove insert and what would the maximum kw that I should go for. The room I want to heat is 16x13. We are not overly keen on the stove thats in the picture above with the adaptor. As far as Im aware thats a 4kw stove. We are however looking at either of these stoves

San Remo
or The Valentia which is a 7kw

Does anyone have any advice that you can share with me and also, should I consider the stove that included in the adapter picture above. Many thanks.

Stove Fan · 24-09-2011 12:53am

Aquos76 wrote: »

Does anyone know definitely whats the story with installing a stove insert in a timber surround fireplace? At this stage Ive spoken with so many different people but no one has been able to give me an answer.

This is our fireplace

and Ive been informed that there are special adaptors available to allow me to insert any of the standard insert stoves then, but there is absolutely no mention of timber surrounds

So my question is, If I go down this route will I be able to then put in a stove insert and what would the maximum kw that I should go for. The room I want to heat is 16x13. We are not overly keen on the stove thats in the picture above with the adaptor. As far as Im aware thats a 4kw stove. We are however looking at either of these stoves

San Remo
or The Valentia which is a 7kw

Does anyone have any advice that you can share with me and also, should I consider the stove that included in the adapter picture above. Many thanks.

Hi:) Sorry I don't know what distance the fire has to be from the wooden surround:(. You could send an email to each stove manufacturer or ask the stove dealer to have a look in the installation instructions for clearance to combustibles on each stove.
I would imagine each stove has different clearances. With regards to stove choice it's a personal thing. Fitting an arch plate against your fireplace and fitting either inset stove could be dissapointing. I see there may not be an outlet for heat to escape from the sides/top of the valentia so that in effect you only have the heat from the front of the inset stove. The stove and arch kit would be the easiest option but the heat output may not be great.

4kw should be perfectly adequate or 5kw if the room has bad insulation or a drafty room.

Hope someone on here who has the arch stove kit can advice if it throws out a good heat and was worthwhile doing:)

Your hearth may not be suitable if its over a wooden floor and may crack as its one piece. Normal to fit in 2 pieces. I would get an installer to look. Is it a gas or electric fire? The cast iron arch may not be suitable for solid fuel. An installer should know.

Is removing the surround not an option?

Stove Fan:)

Aquos76 · 24-09-2011 1:25am

Thanks for your reply Stove fan, tbh removing the surround in a non runner, Id be killed if I even suggested it, The two stoves pictured both have outlets in the top and sides ok, this is the reason why I'm not too keen on the one pictured with the adapter. I've spoken to two guys who work in stove centers and both are saying that the 4kw should be fine with the timber surrounds, but they are not 100% certain. Ill ring around a few more places tomorrow to see can I get clarification.

Also, the Valencia also comes with an attachment that clips to the top of the stove to divert the heat outwards rather than upwards and I've seen this in operation and in fairness is seem very effective as the underside of the marble fireplace which it was fitted too didn't seem to warm.

Mindme · 25-09-2011 10:21am

A candle-powered stove may be of use to those with imagination and adaptability see info on the link. An economical way of staying warm this winter.

http://irelandtoo.blogspot.com

Caitriona · 25-09-2011 10:48am

What does anyone know about Inis stoves, the Inis Meain boiler model specifically?

Mindme · 25-09-2011 12:27pm

Caitriona wrote: »

What does anyone know about Inis stoves, the Inis Meain boiler model specifically?

See http://www.mullendomestic.com/inis-stoves?product_id=67

It could also use 10 hour candles as fuel. Quantity to be ascertained by trial and error.

Candle-powered stoves may be the future?

Caitriona · 25-09-2011 1:07pm

Thanks, Mindme; I was really looking for more personal knowledge though; I've looked at them on plenty of sites but I'd like firsthand knowledge of how good they are: reliability, standard of support from the manufacturer, that sort of thing.

I'm a bit nonplussed by the whole candle thing. It seems unlikely that they could produce enough heat! Not that I'm denying it, mind you, I just don't know enough about it.

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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