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De horning calves

  • 22-02-2010 8:26pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭


    over the past few years, I have turned more and more against de horning young calves. I think it's very hard on them especially the continental breeds who sometimes don't grow any horns til maybe 3 weeks old so it's very stressful on them.

    half of me thinks it nearly easier to leave them til the autume at 6-8 months and just them with the crange or the saw.

    would appreciate a bit of discussion on this one as have calves ready for doing now.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭mossfort


    i wouldnt reccomend leaving them till the autumn because skulling them is a lot harder on them than dehorning them without all the blood.
    if your dehorning iron is hot enough they should be very easy to do when the buds first appear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭tismesoitis


    i have to agree with u there but i think dehorning at a young age is the lesser of two evils. skulling is not only harn on beast but on man aswell especially when theres one that won't stop bleedin and has to be tied!!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Do them early. Get someone to show you how to use local anaesthetic.
    It only gets harder- on them and you!

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭mayoireland


    we use to leave them till autumn and it was the biggest mistake .blood and sore heads for days and a hole in there head for weeks.dehorning iron is the only way sore head for an hour


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭mysillyusername


    my dad left it till autumn one or twice..never again. The animals are too strong even at that age. No matter what you do with a saw some animals will bleed. It is just too stressful...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dar31


    have to agree with all above the younger they are done the better easier on animal and man/woman
    absolutely hate sculling them such a sorry site, at least half them bleed no matter what you do
    luckily a local woman had a cure for them bleeding, with in an hour of calling her the bleeding would have stopped
    a couple get through the net every year, but deliberately not dehorning young isn't right


  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Follow the Plan


    my dad left it till autumn one or twice..never again. The animals are too strong even at that age. No matter what you do with a saw some animals will bleed. It is just too stressful...

    1st post and I hope its helps. Long time reader btw.

    I echo the above poster feelings. A horrible job. Our vet ran an electric current thru the animals in the crush (anyone have a term for this procedure, It's illegal now) and it was easy saw the horn, then spray some kinda sealer on the butt, but it was very messy regards blood and it has to be an extreme painful and stress procedure on the cattle. I leave most of the calves till 4-6 weeks old( U'll always get the odd weaker one) and I then de horn them with a portable gas dehorner. If ur good on it U'll see one bleed in 20 in my experience. Caustic was another way my aunt used to do it but I think there's nothin to beat the gas dehorner. Hope this helps


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    Under the Suckler Scheme, to do with without an aesthetic, you have to do them under 2 weeks, which is crazy.
    I find there is a huge difference between the breeds and between heifers and bulls. A bull with shorthorn breeding will grow them a lot quicker than a charolais heifer. You need to have the bud about 1cm long (my vet told me this aswell). The first year I did them too early and ended up doing them again...crazy.
    I also seal across the exposed flesh with a 'X' shape using the hot iron afterwards, it stops any bleeding. I spray a bit of iodine also - can't do any harm.
    Do them when young - the lesser of two evils !!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭red_diesel


    We do them at about 5-6 weeks, really whenever there's a bud. Terrible job, its the one job I really detest. As said above, the lesser of two evils. There's alot to be said for Angus's!! You'd imagine in this days and age they'd be able to genetically engineer so as not to produce horns.
    When we do them we usually completely remove the bud. I've read you don't actually have to do this, just burn around it. Anyone do the same?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭wiggy123


    angus's the only way..no horns--no work!or pain for them as calves/weanlings


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  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭red_diesel


    wiggy123 wrote: »
    angus's the only way..no horns--no work!or pain for them as calves/weanlings

    We only use easy calving angus bulls and they're usually very poor. Hardy calves alright but very small. Hard to make anything out of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭wiggy123


    well go for better angus bulls then, what cows do u have?


  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭red_diesel


    wiggy123 wrote: »
    well go for better angus bulls then, what cows do u have?

    We have Brtish Friesian mainly. Sometimes use Angus for heifers. I find Belgian Blue's a very good beef option for Friesian.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 williemakeit


    definitely debudding when young is the way forward,particularly if selling calves as weanlings.
    on this subject does anyone have recommendations for calf dehorning crates. make, price and supplier.
    cheers


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭wiggy123


    i'd agree...as skulling is cruel+dangerous for cattle+ man


  • Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭westlander


    red_diesel wrote: »
    We do them at about 5-6 weeks, really whenever there's a bud. Terrible job, its the one job I really detest. As said above, the lesser of two evils. There's alot to be said for Angus's!! You'd imagine in this days and age they'd be able to genetically engineer so as not to produce horns.
    When we do them we usually completely remove the bud. I've read you don't actually have to do this, just burn around it. Anyone do the same?

    I burn them out but I dont go to the root....I usually scoop out the horn but theres a white base underneath so i mustnt be getting it all. But i havent seen any problems with this method yet!
    Usually put sudocream on afterwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 663 ✭✭✭John_F


    if you thinnk that doing them at calves is bad look at this video.. cruelty! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaF1PO-Pd2g

    in New Zealand they get vets to dehorn


  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭theroad


    on this subject does anyone have recommendations for calf dehorning crates. make, price and supplier.
    cheers

    came across this the other day on the web: http://www.ballinadee.com/?q=node/10
    don't know if it's any good, but it looks like it might do the job. Anyone using one?

    For dehorning, we give them the local anasthetic beforehand and goes fine - they don't act like they're in pain, anyway, and then aluminium spray afterwards to seal the wound - (almost) no bleeding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 663 ✭✭✭John_F


    theroad wrote: »
    came across this the other day on the web: http://www.ballinadee.com/?q=node/10
    don't know if it's any good, but it looks like it might do the job. Anyone using one?

    For dehorning, we give them the local anasthetic beforehand and goes fine - they don't act like they're in pain, anyway, and then aluminium spray afterwards to seal the wound - (almost) no bleeding.

    hope you mean alamycin spray ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭theroad


    John_F wrote: »
    hope you mean alamycin spray ;)

    nope, Aluspray. It's aluminium-dust-in-a-can and works like a bandage to seal a wound. Good stuff.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭vanderbadger


    theroad wrote: »
    came across this the other day on the web: http://www.ballinadee.com/?q=node/10
    don't know if it's any good, but it looks like it might do the job. Anyone using one?

    For dehorning, we give them the local anasthetic beforehand and goes fine - they don't act like they're in pain, anyway, and then aluminium spray afterwards to seal the wound - (almost) no bleeding.

    ya saw that advertised in journal, not sure about it, i think access to the side which is attached to gate might be tricky


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭Indubitable


    I dehorn my calves as soon as possible.

    Maybe you should consider a polled breed. you can get polled bulls for alot of breeds now. I used a polled Blonde D'Aquitaine bull so only my AI calves need dehorning. Polled variations of a breed tend to be quite hard found and cost more than a normal bull


  • Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭mossfort


    pakalasa wrote: »
    Under the Suckler Scheme, to do with without an aesthetic, you have to do them under 2 weeks, which is crazy.
    I find there is a huge difference between the breeds and between heifers and bulls. A bull with shorthorn breeding will grow them a lot quicker than a charolais heifer. You need to have the bud about 1cm long (my vet told me this aswell). The first year I did them too early and ended up doing them again...crazy.
    I also seal across the exposed flesh with a 'X' shape using the hot iron afterwards, it stops any bleeding. I spray a bit of iodine also - can't do any harm.
    Do them when young - the lesser of two evils !!!!!
    i wouldnt recomend using iodine on any fresh wounds or for dehorning because it will keep the wound fresh.
    i find aluspray the best because the cows cant lick it off.
    i think its important to have some sort of easy release mechanism for the calfs head in the box to prevent injury.


  • Registered Users Posts: 663 ✭✭✭John_F


    theroad wrote: »
    nope, Aluspray. It's aluminium-dust-in-a-can and works like a bandage to seal a wound. Good stuff.

    jaaae,,, never heard of that now, learnt more on here than i did in college :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭maidhcII


    It is actually illegal to dehorn any calve over 14 days without an anaesthetic (and consequently a vet present!)

    Not saying anyone does it, but worth throwing in there!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭Indubitable


    John_F wrote: »
    if you thinnk that doing them at calves is bad look at this video.. cruelty! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaF1PO-Pd2g

    in New Zealand they get vets to dehorn

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaF1PO-Pd2g
    Your link didn't work.

    That is horrible


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    I managed to get a tube of dehorning paste from a supplier in Northern ireland for this year's calves. I do all calves before they're a week old. Its very simple, just clip the hair, make a circle with vaseline to keep the paste on the horn and rub on a tiny bit of paste with a spatula. Its a lot easier on the calves than the dehorning iron and it is very effective.

    I tried a couple of times to buyt it down south, but can't find anywhere that sells it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭BeeDI


    reilig wrote: »
    I managed to get a tube of dehorning paste from a supplier in Northern ireland for this year's calves. I do all calves before they're a week old. Its very simple, just clip the hair, make a circle with vaseline to keep the paste on the horn and rub on a tiny bit of paste with a spatula. Its a lot easier on the calves than the dehorning iron and it is very effective.

    I tried a couple of times to buyt it down south, but can't find anywhere that sells it.

    Not legal to sell the paste or the dehorning sticks in the south. More bullsh1t for the box tickers to police.
    I bought about 10 years supply before it went out:D
    Lot less stressful on man and beast in my opinion.

    B


  • Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭haybob


    I agree with you about dehorning as soon as possible, I have a good few angus and they are great but sometimes the X calfes can be a bit stronger when you can dehorn them
    I dehorn my calves as soon as possible.

    Maybe you should consider a polled breed. you can get polled bulls for alot of breeds now. I used a polled Blonde D'Aquitaine bull so only my AI calves need dehorning. Polled variations of a breed tend to be quite hard found and cost more than a normal bull


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭lifelover2006


    reilig wrote: »
    I managed to get a tube of dehorning paste from a supplier in Northern ireland for this year's calves. I do all calves before they're a week old. Its very simple, just clip the hair, make a circle with vaseline to keep the paste on the horn and rub on a tiny bit of paste with a spatula. Its a lot easier on the calves than the dehorning iron and it is very effective.

    I tried a couple of times to buyt it down south, but can't find anywhere that sells it.

    what is the name of this stuff. I travel a lot with my job and somethings up north too so thinking i could pick it up. I really wnat to try something different than de horning with hot iron this year


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