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Is Halloween Cultural Appropriation?

  • 08-10-2017 3:00pm
    #1
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭


    We're into October and with it one of my favourite holidays, Halloween will soon be here.

    As we all know Halloween originated from the ancient Gaelic festival of Samhain. Many of the customs surrounding the festival - dressing up, going door-to-door etc - was bolted on over the intervening centuries but the modern incarnation is unquestionably Americanized. They, as in North Americans, have taken our traditions and warped and altered them into their own versions and have incorporated it into their own culture.

    Is this not the classic definition of cultural appropriation?


Comments

  • #2
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Sure t'was the Irish who took Samhain with them, then it got built upon, tweaked, commercialised and hey-presto it is what it is now.

    That's what happens - look at Father Christmas (not to mention St Nicholas) who is now Santa Clause - much greater a cultural appropriation for my money. Starting in pagan England he used to be a thin chap wearing green now he is fat fella in red and white.


  • #3
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    People moan about enough things, lets not add another twiiterverse problem to the list.


  • #4
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    It's the classic definition of - who cares.


  • #5
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Sure t'was the Irish who took Samhain with them, then it got built upon, tweaked, commercialised and hey-presto it is what it is now.

    That's what happens - look at Father Christmas (not to mention St Nicholas) who is now Santa Clause - much greater a cultural appropriation for my money. Starting in pagan England he used to be a thin chap wearing green now he is fat fella in red and white.

    I guess what happened with Christmas is similar too. What I don't like is not that's it's become commercialised or that the Yanks have altered it, but rather that we're taking in this Americanized version of our own festival. Seems bizarre to me.

    Do children these days play any of the old games or customs?


  • #6
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    Ipso wrote: »
    People moan about enough things, lets not add another twiiterverse problem to the list.

    I'm certainly not one of those sanctimonious social media snowflakes offended by everything. I do think that it's an interesting from a cultural perspective how we have moved away from our traditional festival but gladly adopt the Americanized version.


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  • #7
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,223 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    I wonder what Samhain was before it was Samhain...


  • #8
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    I guess what happened with Christmas is similar too. What I don't like is not that's it's become commercialised or that the Yanks have altered it, but rather that we're taking in this Americanized version of our own festival. Seems bizarre to me.

    Do children these days play any of the old games or customs?
    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    I'm certainly not one of those sanctimonious social media snowflakes offended by everything. I do think that it's an interesting from a cultural perspective how we have moved away from our traditional festival but gladly adopt the Americanized version.

    In the olden days basically before nation could speak unto nation every region had it's own legends or variation of a wider one. Then along came mass communications and the biggest beast in the jungle started to dominate everyone else's culture to some degree. The Yanks sell their vision of the world to the world and because on an hourly basis it's very cheap (and always has been) everyone has bought it and watched it. Now of course with all the social media giants being American no one is able to spell programme correctly either! :)


  • #9
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    I guess what happened with Christmas is similar too. What I don't like is not that's it's become commercialised or that the Yanks have altered it, but rather that we're taking in this Americanized version of our own festival. Seems bizarre to me.

    Do children these days play any of the old games or customs?

    We certainly do at school anyhow - bar anything to do with nuts . Snap apple , apple bobbing , " cutting " the flour etc.


  • #10
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    In the olden days basically before nation could speak unto nation every region had it's own legends or variation of a wider one. Then along came mass communications and the biggest beast in the jungle started to dominate everyone else's culture to some degree. The Yanks sell their vision of the world to the world and because on an hourly basis it's very cheap (and always has been) everyone has bought it and watched it. Now of course with all the social media giants being American no one is able to spell programme correctly either! :)

    Yes indeed but that's not necessarily a good thing; the sheer volume of American culture can be overwhelming at times.

    I view Halloween as indicative of the state of Irish culture, that is the everyday culture that surrounds us, in general; greatly - overly even - influenced by Anglo-American culture.


  • #11
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    We certainly do at school anyhow - bar anything to do with nuts . Snap apple , apple bobbing , " cutting " the flour etc.

    That's good to hear!


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  • #12
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,720 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    I see they're selling Catrina, the Mexican "Day of the Dead" masks here now!


  • #13
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    I see they're selling Catrina, the Mexican "Day of the Dead" masks here now!

    Yeah I've seen that, there is even events organised for it.

    The Mexican Day of the Dead is a good comparison to Hallowe'en; that festival seems to have kept it's integrity and not allowed itself to be corrupted and watered down by American influences. And it's all the better for it, it looks amazing.


  • #14
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    I'm probably coming across as anti-American and pedantic but I'm not really; to be honest I do expect and accept some American influence.

    So instead of only using the phrase 'Trick-or-Treat', we could say also 'Penny for the Púca', or some other traditional phrase. Instead of carving just a pumpkin we could carve the traditional turnip too. Costumes should be scary and even inspired by US horror films but they shouldn't be Wonderwoman or a princess or whatever other random theme that has nothing to do with Hallowe'en.

    Some might say it doesn't matter but it's still part of our cultural heritage and should be preserved and respect imo.


  • #15
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,720 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Pedantic, maybe, but I don't think your average 8 year old is going to do research into "old" traditions when their parents are hardly likely to have celebrated Halloween that way in any case.
    Traditions die out, esp when less people live in the countryside and move into towns, cities and suburbs.

    You're going to have to accept that people here will just ape U.S. practice as that is what the wall to wall media is telling them to do.


  • #16
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    Two recent articles on this:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/10/29/this-halloween-spare-a-thought-for-the-forgotten-turnip/

    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/only-for-halloween-surviving-in-america-it-probably-would-have-died-out-here-3667762-Oct2017/


  • #17
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    We're into October and with it one of my favourite holidays, Halloween will soon be here.

    As we all know Halloween originated from the ancient Gaelic festival of Samhain. Many of the customs surrounding the festival - dressing up, going door-to-door etc - was bolted on over the intervening centuries but the modern incarnation is unquestionably Americanized. They, as in North Americans, have taken our traditions and warped and altered them into their own versions and have incorporated it into their own culture.

    Is this not the classic definition of cultural appropriation?

    Yes and I would say “who cares” except for the fact that moronic yanks tend to use Halloween to whine about cultural appropriation by “whites” of non white culture. They could solve the issue by not culturally appropriating other peoples cultures but they are too stupid to understand their history.


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