Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Landlord Entering Property Without Permission

Options
135

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Axel Damaged Rayon wrote: »
    While it's totally out of order I don't think it's creepy at all like some think.

    He is most likely just worried about his property and is wrongly doing unauthorised inspections.

    Exactly.

    Occam's razor applies here, I think.


  • Options
    #63
    GBX
    Registered Users Posts: 11,900 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    Axel Damaged Rayon wrote: »
    While it's totally out of order I don't think it's creepy at all like some think.

    He is most likely just worried about his property and is wrongly doing unauthorised inspections.

    He should be giving notice before entering. Whether he is worried or not.


  • Options
    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    GBX wrote: »
    He should be giving notice before entering. Whether he is worried or not.

    Yes he should, I never said he shouldn't. I was simply saying its wrong but I don't see it as being in the slightest bit creepy.


  • Options
    #65
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Axel Damaged Rayon wrote: »
    Yes he should, I never said he shouldn't. I was simply saying its wrong but I don't see it as being in the slightest bit creepy.


    Once every few months could be explained as inspections.


    Creeping around a families house while they aren't there 3 times since the start of October is creepy.


  • Options
    #66
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Doop wrote: »
    I would suggest sending him a letter/email telling him you have observed him entering the property without permission (and have evidence of same) and that the guards have been notified and will be in contact should this occur again. Should he want to inspect the property it needs to be in accordance with the lease.

    That's over the top. Call the LL (Not an email or Facebook message or solicitors letter)
    say you know he's been entering the house without permission.
    Say you know it's normal to have periodical inspections but you want to be there to let them in and you want to have agreed to the inspection and
    Say you don't want Anyone entering the house when you're not there or without arranging it in advance (all perfectly normal, reasonable expectations)

    Don't give them the chance to deny they've entered the house as that would only turn things sour of they do deny it. And lay out the conditions for future inspections.

    Simple as the that. No need for an argument, just set them straight.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    That's over the top. Call the LL (Not an email or Facebook message or solicitors letter)
    say you know he's been entering the house without permission.
    Say you know it's normal to have periodical inspections but you want to be there to let them in and you want to have agreed to the inspection and
    Say you don't want Anyone entering the house when you're not there or without arranging it in advance (all perfectly normal, reasonable expectations)

    Don't give them the chance to deny they've entered the house as that would only turn things sour of they do deny it. And lay out the conditions for future inspections.

    Simple as the that. No need for an argument, just set them straight.

    He needs to agree to a lock change and that the spare keys are held by your solicitor not him.


  • Options
    #68
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    He needs to agree to a lock change and that the spare keys are held by your solicitor not him.

    Of course he doesn't. The situation can be sorted out much more simply than that by normal people chatting it through.

    No need for any of the legal routes. Just the normal routes of chatting and agreeing what to do in future. The OP has the cameras so they'll know if the LL breaks the agreement.


  • Options
    #69
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Axel Damaged Rayon wrote: »
    While it's totally out of order I don't think it's creepy at all like some think.

    He is most likely just worried about his property and is wrongly doing unauthorised inspections.

    If he's that "worried about his property" he shouldn't be a landlord and should sell the place. Paying 3k for this "service" is just plain nuts.

    As for not changing the locks, how would he know they are changed unless he drops himself in it? He issues notice for them to remedy situation (op has a one year lease so can't use the cessation of tenancy in first 6 months clause) and then OP politely drops video footage evidence of him perusing the house.

    Then he goes to the RTB to vindicate his rights and OP counter files that they were in fear etc as he was repeatedly entering without cause and have evidence of same. Landlord would be nuts to do so so changing locks is not the one way ticket to the street that people are making it out to be here if that's what the OP does (although they have said they don't wish to do this which is fair enough).

    OP, best of luck in remedying this situation but realistically your relationship with this LL is as good as dead for the remainder of your tenancy because of his actions.


  • Options
    #70
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Of course he doesn't. The situation can be sorted out much more simply than that by normal people chatting it through.

    No need for any of the legal routes. Just the normal routes of chatting and agreeing what to do in future. The OP has the cameras so they'll know if the LL breaks the agreement.

    Hang on, he has been accessing the house while the family is out, he has trespassed. The family no longer feels like its their home/castle/ as safe as previously.

    He agrees to the locks demand and all is settled or he doesn't and the family goes to RTB as they are entitled to. I'm all for better rights for landlords as I do believe they get a hard time however he hasnt a leg to stand on. While the family has him bang to rights he needs to offer up or agree to a solution that allows the issue to pass - if not he needs to learn a lesson that costs him money.


  • Options
    #71
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    By the way, I havent said change the locks without his agreement.

    Locks get changed with his agreement - just that the agreement is more pushed on him than he otherwise would of liked.

    Get a side letter written by his solicitor to addendum the lease - that the spare keys will be kept not in direct control of landlord but if lease ends then they will.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    Get a side letter written by his solicitor to addendum the lease - that the spare keys will be kept not in direct control of landlord but if lease ends then they will.

    You wouldn't have a hope of getting such a clause, it would be laughed at. You can't prevent a property owner having keys to his property.

    Look the LL is wrong and the op needs to address it but there is no point making suggestions that have zero chance of actually happening. Also any talk of Guards is a waste of breath, its nothing to do with the guards.


  • Options
    #73
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    Hang on, he has been accessing the house while the family is out, he has trespassed. The family no longer feels like its their home/castle/ as safe as previously.

    He agrees to the locks demand and all is settled or he doesn't and the family goes to RTB as they are entitled to. I'm all for better rights for landlords as I do believe they get a hard time however he hasnt a leg to stand on. While the family has him bang to rights he needs to offer up or agree to a solution that allows the issue to pass - if not he needs to learn a lesson that costs him money.

    Yeah but there's no need to change locks or involve a solicitor on any level. A chat with the LL should be the first step. If it can be sorted there, wouldn't that be preferable? Ie Ll agrees to arrange inspections and not enter the house without agreement. Simple, no?


  • Options
    #74
    jlm29
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    I actually think that the OP had the right idea when she said she wanted to phone the landlord while he was on camera In the house. Probably the easiest way to mortify him into never coming back.


  • Options
    #75
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,264 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Next time you get a alert from the camera that he is there. Call the Gardai and tell them that there is an intruder in your house.


  • Options
    #76
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Yeah but there's no need to change locks or involve a solicitor on any level. A chat with the LL should be the first step. If it can be sorted there, wouldn't that be preferable? Ie Ll agrees to arrange inspections and not enter the house without agreement. Simple, no?

    Landlord has already proven to be untrustworthy - so no.


  • Options
    #77
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    jlm29 wrote: »
    I actually think that the OP had the right idea when she said she wanted to phone the landlord while he was on camera In the house. Probably the easiest way to mortify him into never coming back.

    Why mortify him? What advantage does that bring over just having a normal conversation with him. No need to even say you've got cameras on the house of you don't want to say HOW you know he's been in the house.

    They can just get him agree not to enter worth out permission. That would be enough for most people to do what you want. Then continue with a normal LL-tenant relationship.


  • Options
    #78
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    Landlord has already proven to be untrustworthy - so no.

    Ah that’s an overreaction. If they chat about it and the landlord agrees, then breaks the agreement, then get serious. Most people will behave appropriately when confronted so I wouldn’t suggest overreacting.


  • Options
    #79
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    You may have hit the jackpot.

    I'd invite him over, sit down on the couch in front of the tv and play every clip one after the other, then give him a printed log of all the times he trespassed.

    Then ask him how does a 50% reduction in rent sound going forward (i.e. towards infinity).

    I'm half joking, you need to bring this situation to a financially beneficially resolution for yourselves.

    Play your cards wrong and you'll be out on the street while the gardai are "preparing a file for the DPP" in which case he will only ever be fined.


  • Options
    #80
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Axel Damaged Rayon wrote: »
    You wouldn't have a hope of getting such a clause, it would be laughed at. You can't prevent a property owner having keys to his property.

    Look the LL is wrong and the op needs to address it but there is no point making suggestions that have zero chance of actually happening. Also any talk of Guards is a waste of breath, its nothing to do with the guards.


    I've said that the landlords keys are just not in direct control by him, he can have it that during the lease they stay at his solicitors etc. But something has to change here.

    If not screw him, go to RTB and have him fined.


  • Options
    #81
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    ted1 wrote: »
    Next time you get a alert from the camera that he is there. Call the Gardai and tell them that there is an intruder in your house.

    Bonus points if you include he looks like he has a gun.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    riemann wrote: »
    You may have hit the jackpot.

    I'd invite him over, sit down on the couch in front of the tv and play every clip one after the other, then give him a printed log of all the times he trespassed.

    Then ask him how does a 50% reduction in rent sound going forward (i.e. towards infinity).

    I'm half joking, you need to bring this situation to a financially beneficially resolution for yourselves.

    Play your cards wrong and you'll be out on the street while the gardai are "preparing a file for the DPP" in which case he will only ever be fined.


    I dont get how this "you'll be out on the street senario" will arise. If he tries to do anything you can call the gardai for interfering with your home and property. He cannot change the locks either.

    Get an alarm or train the dog .


  • Options
    #83
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    I dont get how this "you'll be out on the street senario" will arise. If he tries to do anything you can call the gardai for interfering with your home and property. He cannot change the locks either.

    Get an alarm or train the dog .

    He decides to sell the house as an example off the top of my head.

    Or his son is coming back to Dublin and moving in.

    I'm sure there are several more.


  • Options
    #84
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,139 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    awec wrote: »
    OP, I guess all you want to happen now is for these strange visits into your home to stop, right?

    I would just start by just confronting him about it directly. Tell him you are very unhappy and somewhat creeped out that he has been entering the property and ask him why he has been doing so. I wouldn't even mention the cameras initially, to see if he tries to deny it.

    If that doesn't work, then you can look at going further. There's no point in going nuclear straight off the bat, it's easier to escalate things later than de-escalate once people have their backs up.

    This seems like the most rational suggestion to me.


  • Options
    #85
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,948 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    I dont get how this "you'll be out on the street senario" will arise. If he tries to do anything you can call the gardai for interfering with your home and property. He cannot change the locks either.

    Get an alarm or train the dog .

    Yeag, gardai, solicitors, dogs, out on the streets, change locks. Or just chat to him and tell him nit to enter without agreement. See if that's enough.


  • Options
    #86
    dancingqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭dancingqueen


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    I dont get how this "you'll be out on the street senario" will arise. If he tries to do anything you can call the gardai for interfering with your home and property. He cannot change the locks either.

    Get an alarm or train the dog .

    The Gardai will not get involved. If that was the case they could call them now, for interfering with their home and property (it's his property though). :confused:


    I like the sit him down and show him the clips idea - he can't deny it, you have the proof and see what he'll say. He sounds like an idiot, and he needs to know you know. I understand your worries about being put out of the house, but he can't do that. You have a fixed term lease, it's watertight. If he even tried to remove your belongings and change the locks he would be not only reprimanded by the RTB, but it would be all over the media - and if he threatens you with it you can tell him that. If he has multiple properties his name will be blackened forever. The odds are very much in your favour on this one.


  • Options
    #87
    dancingqueen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭dancingqueen


    riemann wrote: »
    He decides to sell the house as an example off the top of my head.

    Or his son is coming back to Dublin and moving in.

    I'm sure there are several more.

    He needs a statutory declaration for this, and that means he needs a solicitor. It's unlikely that a solicitor will draw up a false legal document and if he manages to fraudulently get one done up, then when the house is suddenly back on draft he can be reported - very risky for a landlord with multiple lets


  • Options
    #88
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,149 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I'd be setting him up myself. Wait for the next alert and then call the guards about a burglary in progress at your address.

    Not only should you frighten him into stopping, you'll also have a Garda witness to his trespass for when you take him to the PRTB.


  • Options
    #89
    con___manx1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    Change the locks.
    If he says anything about the locks being changed ask him why he was trying to get in.


  • Options
    #90
    Get Real
    Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Get Real


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I'd be setting him up myself. Wait for the next alert and then call the guards about a burglary in progress at your address.

    Not only should you frighten him into stopping, you'll also have a Garda witness to his trespass for when you take him to the PRTB.

    Op has him on camera though to take him to the PRTB. The guy owns the property, so from a criminal law point of view, trespass doesn't apply. And a judge would laugh it out of court.

    People seem to be blending criminal offences and a different form of trespass which is specifically provided for in the tenancy Act 2004.

    Go with the law that backs you up. Use the footage and bring it to RTB. He can be prosecuted that way. Nowhere in the tenancies act does it mention a power of arrest, gardai, or anything.

    Personally, I'd solve it internally with an email as other have suggested. If that doesn't work, then RTB. The end result is you want to stop him visiting unannounced right?

    Why complicate the situation waiting on guards, "gathering evidence" when there's nothing in criminal law for someone trespassing on a property they own. Too much hassle for op for no gain. And jumping miles ahead.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭893bet


    irelandrover wrote: »
    Once every few months could be explained as inspections.


    Creeping around a families house while they aren't there 3 times since the start of October is creepy.

    Extremely creepy.

    Has be been in bedrooms?

    Who knows what his intentions are but it’s not normal.


Advertisement