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Jet Stream /NAO causing flight problems

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  • 12-01-2012 3:51am
    #1
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    The very strong jet stream and it's present position is apparently causing problems for the airlines.

    CBS news is reporting that over 60 flights in recent weeks have had to land at alternate airports for extra fuel when flying Westbound to the States due to the delays caused by high headwinds.

    The main type affected is apparently the Boeing 757

    Researchers are reporting that the problem is one of a number being caused by an abnormal NAO, and Polar Vortex, which has caused over 15 Ft of snow to fall on parts of Alaska, while most of the remaining 48 has seen little or no snow this winter.

    Sound familiar? Yeah:D:D

    Snow addicts of the world unite :D:D

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #2
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    I was reading it took one flight from frankfurt almost twelve hours to reach Dallas last week! Which is totally crazy, you'd be in Singapore quicker! 200km/h winds are no joke!

    http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5351306/

    There have been very strong winds in across the North Atlantic all week, the planes are coming across Eastbound in from the US in record times but are having an awful battle going back West and with small single aisle twinjets like the 757 used by United they just haven't the legs to make it and are having to refuel in Bangor, Gander and in NewFoundland.

    http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5348525


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    #3
    pad199207
    Registered Users Posts: 7,116 ✭✭✭pad199207


    Stinicker wrote: »
    I was reading it took one flight from frankfurt almost twelve hours to reach Dallas last week! Which is totally crazy, you'd be in Singapore quicker! 200km/h winds are no joke!

    http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5351306/

    There have been very strong winds in across the North Atlantic all week, the planes are coming across Eastbound in from the US in record times but are having an awful battle going back West and with small single aisle twinjets like the 757 used by United they just haven't the legs to make it and are having to refuel in Bangor, Gander and in NewFoundland.

    http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5348525
    12 hours from Frankfurt to Dallas is normal


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    #4
    él statutorio
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭él statutorio


    pad199207 wrote: »
    12 hours from Frankfurt to Dallas is normal

    I'd have thought so too!


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    #5
    Madpaddy79
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭Madpaddy79


    Probably more to do with airlines selecting 757's to do atlantic routes, this has become more common in recent years, hence more fuel stops ( being noticed ) on westbound flights. Don't think the jetstream is majorly faster this year than any other. Maybe on occasion but not constantly. 757 is not exactly a transatlantic aircraft now is it, And certainly not the preferred choice of the passenger on long flights!


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    #6
    Dinkleman
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Dinkleman


    A330 is the only job! A great airplane! 757 is a ball of dung!


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    #7
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Dinkleman wrote: »
    757 is a ball of dung!

    Albeit one with the best power and climb performance of just about any commercial jet used so widely.

    Power is certainly not the issue, just the size of it's fuel tanks. It's a fantastic aircraft.

    I do like the A330 though :D


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    #8
    Baneblade
    Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Baneblade


    my sister came home from canada for christmas and the flight was delayed about an hour due to the shorter flight time

    i prefer the A330 myself


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    #9
    blackius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭blackius


    Baneblade wrote: »
    my sister came home from canada for christmas and the flight was delayed about an hour due to the shorter flight time

    i prefer the A330 myself
    When I was flying to Canada,the flight plan took us way north towards the pole to avoid the jetstream adding 90 minutes to the flight time,that was just after Xmas.


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    #10
    Snowmaker
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭Snowmaker


    Baneblade wrote: »
    my sister came home from canada for christmas and the flight was delayed about an hour due to the shorter flight time

    Is it just me or is this not making any sense? Sorry baneblade, absolutely no offense intended. Surely a strong jet stream, flowing west-east, creating a shorter flight time, would not result in a delayed landing...?? Am I reading it wrong?

    Edit: sorry, just realised my idiocy, I guess you meant a delayed departure from Canada. Mental note to self: think!


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    #11
    je55ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭je55ie


    Snowmaker wrote: »
    Is it just me or is this not making any sense? Sorry baneblade, absolutely no offense intended. Surely a strong jet stream, flowing west-east, creating a shorter flight time, would not result in a delayed landing...?? Am I reading it wrong?

    Was wondering the same :confused:


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    #12
    Snowmaker
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭Snowmaker


    je55ie wrote: »
    Snowmaker wrote: »
    Is it just me or is this not making any sense? Sorry baneblade, absolutely no offense intended. Surely a strong jet stream, flowing west-east, creating a shorter flight time, would not result in a delayed landing...?? Am I reading it wrong?

    Was wondering the same :confused:

    See my edit within my original post.... Glad I'm not the only one! ;-)


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    #13
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    The reason the flight was 'delayed', due to a shorter flight time, is probably to do with a landing slot/allocated landing time this side of the Atlantic? So while the flight may have been delayed taking off, it probably arrived on schedule (due to shorter flight time).

    Just a theory to explain baneblade's post?

    Edit: @Snowmaker - didn't fully read your post - but your along the same gist!


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    #14
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    The reason the flight was 'delayed', due to a shorter flight time, is probably to do with a landing slot/allocated landing time this side of the Atlantic? So while the flight may have been delayed taking off, it probably arrived on schedule (due to shorter flight time).

    Just a theory to explain baneblade's post?

    Edit: @Snowmaker - didn't fully read your post - but your along the same gist!


    Highly unlikely, most transatlantic flights arrive early morning, when most traffic is departing, so plenty of gates/parking available. Landing slots aren't really an issue.


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    #15
    Madpaddy79
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭Madpaddy79


    sdeire wrote: »
    DOCARCH wrote: »
    The reason the flight was 'delayed', due to a shorter flight time, is probably to do with a landing slot/allocated landing time this side of the Atlantic? So while the flight may have been delayed taking off, it probably arrived on schedule (due to shorter flight time).

    Just a theory to explain baneblade's post?

    Edit: @Snowmaker - didn't fully read your post - but your along the same gist!


    Highly unlikely, most transatlantic flights arrive early morning, when most traffic is departing, so plenty of gates/parking available. Landing slots aren't really an issue.

    Ha if only that where true. Actually early arriving ta flts cause mayhem for parking.


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    #16
    Baneblade
    Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Baneblade


    did not see the reply on this, DOCARCH was right i should have said the delay was with the departure time. the delay she had was because of the reduced travel time and the landing slot. the flight crew were informed about the later departing time but the staff at the gate were not so she was sitting on the plane for about an hour before the piolts showed up.

    she was flying to heathrow which is a pain to land in when your on time, hate to see what its like if your an hour early


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    #17
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,957 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Baneblade wrote: »
    she was flying to heathrow which is a pain to land in when your on time, hate to see what its like if your an hour early
    What happens is: you hang around in a holding pattern for a while, then you land and sit on the tarmac for a while, before you can go to your gate. That's what happened to me on the return from Vancouver. That was before the opening of Terminal 5, though, and it was much better last time I went through there (coming back from Houston in 2009).

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #18
    Bearcat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Bearcat


    Last night east bound approaching goose bay......164knots of jet stream wind up our chuff

    d755adad.jpg

    :D


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    #19
    Su Campu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭Su Campu


    What's that you're flyin'?


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    #20
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Bearcat wrote: »
    164knots of jet stream wind up our chuff
    Does the annual bonus depend on getting her cleanly into a tailwind like that and saving on the Kero bill. ????

    Back here in Galway of a clear morning I apply the following forecasting rubric as I leave the house.

    Jets both ways....OK weather.
    Jets east only ...bugger, good weather to south. :(
    Jets west only...Great. :D


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    #21
    Bearcat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Bearcat


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Does the annual bonus depend on getting her cleanly into a tailwind like that and saving on the Kero bill. ????
    :D
    I wish, no such thing as an annual bonus where I am.

    I haven't seen that speed in a jet stream for a while. We were close to the core of it but the trick in flight planning is to try and avoid routing into the polar side of these things as they can throw up very bad bumps and shear. The routing selection is done by company operations based on the available routes (tracks) on offer which change on a daily basis based on forecast jets and associated turbulence. I find jet streams fascinating re,cores of 200mph winds at altitude.

    Also that night the temps across the atlantic were on average -70c which is about -14c colder than normal. You have to be very careful here re fuel and it's freezing point......


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    #22
    MrDerp
    Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭MrDerp


    Bearcat wrote: »

    Also that night the temps across the atlantic were on average -70c which is about -14c colder than normal. You have to be very careful here re fuel and it's freezing point......

    If MrsDerp ever reads this, you'll have ended North American holidays for me forever :)


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