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One year on from Ms Cash's impassioned speech

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12357…23

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  • Options
    #122
    Greyfox
    Registered Users Posts: 3,721 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    kippy wrote: »
    This is the big issue. It is the example it sets and the bar being set for others like her.

    This is exactly what the problem is. Ms Cash is an example to others as to how you can have a better life on welfare rather than working. It helps create situations where people have kids they can't afford and it highlights the fast that we are sometimes too generous when it comes to welfare. If some people can't see this then there clearly blind or just don't care about people who work.


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    #123
    Ruraldweller56
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Ruraldweller56


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    That does not make it right.

    It is patently wrong that someone can get so much and contribute nothing to society or not work a single day.

    I don't care how little it costs us personally.

    It's not right.

    It's not even about that.

    You give these types of people 'free' houses (paid for by you and me) and you'll have the few who a) don't appreciate it b) will make people who already live in those areas lives a misery c) instil the idea in others that do nothing to help yourself and pay your own way and it'll all be grand.

    I know of people in Tralee who had Margaret Cash - esque type people move in next door and dreaded coming home after work. I've met people with pretty serious criminal convictions who were just given a free gaff miles (a few counties) away from where they were from to keep them out of trouble.

    The people who have to live with these people are an afterthought.

    But....

    aRiSe FeLlOw PrOleTaRiAt ItS tHe BaNks!!!

    All the while some little scrote is kicking the wing mirrors off your car for the second time this week.


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    #124
    pgj2015
    Registered Users Posts: 8,926 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    does anyone think there is ever going to be a party in power in Ireland that will finally put an end to the gravy train for these parasites?


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    #125
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    does anyone think there is ever going to be a party in power in Ireland that will finally put an end to the gravy train for these parasites?

    Straight answer NO.


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    #126
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    does anyone think there is ever going to be a party in power in Ireland that will finally put an end to the gravy train for these parasites?

    Perish the thought!

    In one way I think that it’s great that we as a society look after those unable to look after themselves. It’s those who are unwilling to so do that get on people’s goat.


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    #127
    Damien360
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Damien360


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    does anyone think there is ever going to be a party in power in Ireland that will finally put an end to the gravy train for these parasites?

    No. There are people who really need help but the definition of who needs help is widening all the time. If you try to tackle the scrotes on the gravy train, you will be blamed for attacking the genuine people that need help. No political party will dare take this on. The media is utterly useless in Ireland and dominated by wealthy do-gooders who don't have to deal with the reprecussions of scrotes living beside them.


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    #128
    piplip87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭piplip87


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    does anyone think there is ever going to be a party in power in Ireland that will finally put an end to the gravy train for these parasites?

    It's fairly simple thing to do.

    Separate disability/invalidity/bind pensions and carers allowance from the general single mothers/ dole payments.

    Give those who cannot work a nice weekly payment look after those genuinely in need.

    As for social welfare. It's ment as a stop gap between employment. I myself am on the dole at the moment have been on it a couple of weeks but expect to be back working inside the next few weeks. So this isn't a dole bashing post.

    I believe for the first 6 months on job seekers payment you should get a higher rate depending on length of time in the job rather than age.

    After 6 months brought in to see what can be done to get employment. There are many free courses for jobseekers.

    After this if there's still no work put them out sweeping the streets, cleaning schools, etc for minium wage.

    If there's nothing after this give them vouchers for local shops.

    The dole should be used between jobs/courses to help people survive, take care of the necessites. Nothing else.


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    #129
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Damien360 wrote: »
    No. There are people who really need help but the definition of who needs help is widening all the time. If you try to tackle the scrotes on the gravy train, you will be blamed for attacking the genuine people that need help. No political party will dare take this on. The media is utterly useless in Ireland and dominated by wealthy do-gooders who don't have to deal with the reprecussions of scrotes living beside them.

    Well for a start there should be a cap on welfare not a ridiculous amount either. No matter your circumstance. Jesus ya don't have to be part of mensa to come up with some reaslitic rules. Ya need more money than that. Ya get up off your arse and work for it


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    #130
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,628 ✭✭✭corks finest


    pgj2015 wrote:
    does anyone think there is ever going to be a party in power in Ireland that will finally put an end to the gravy train for these parasites?

    No


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    #131
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Being a welfare lifer doesn't make you a hero, people like Mrs cash are no better than the fingleton and fitzpatricks of this world

    She's far from a 'hero', but her crimes (both the literal and figurative ones) pale in comparison with those of the two men you mentioned. She - and people like her - seem to provoke a lot more ire from the perennially angry on here though.

    I don't agree, prior to 2008, people in the upper echelons of banking produced some good results, travellers contribute nothing from birth


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    #132
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    does anyone think there is ever going to be a party in power in Ireland that will finally put an end to the gravy train for these parasites?

    RTE would roast them alive, nothing changes until a Conservative media outlet emerges


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    #133
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    In many towns and villages all over Ireland , travellers who never worked a day in their lives are laughing at those working , they can have 7 or 8 children compared to those working with their planned 1 or 2 kids , then you have all the crime travellers are involved in .
    It’s becoming a masive issue in rural Ireland and Peter Casey showed how big an issue traveller crime is for so many .


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    #134
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    In many towns and villages all over Ireland , travellers who never worked a day in their lives are laughing at those working , they can have 7 or 8 children compared to those working with their planned 1 or 2 kids , then you have all the crime travellers are involved in .
    It’s becoming a masive issue in rural Ireland and Peter Casey showed how big an issue traveller crime is for so many .

    All the problems aside I don't see anything glamorous in this way of life. Knowingly putting yourself in the social outskirt because you're clinging to a fantasy of an outdated culture while everyone else moved on must be fairly sh*t. Nobody accepts you because there's no attempt in even trying to take a step into the right direction and all that's left is living from handouts and a huge part of your peers are involved in crime and anti-social behavior.

    Every attempt to make your way out is sabotaged by your own people and eventually you'll be ostracized from your social circle while the general population has such a bad picture of you and your background that many paths in life are an uphill battle.

    Setting your whole surrounding up for failure from the day you're are born is bullsh*t, no free house, monetary support and outlaw behavior is worth it in my eyes.

    Of course it absolutely sucks that it's difficult to hold travellers accountable for their behavior, it's a topic that's too hot to touch and would mean career suicide for everyone trying to do something about it.


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    #135
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    I don't agree, prior to 2008, people in the upper echelons of banking produced some good results, travellers contribute nothing from birth

    Um... they didn't just suddenly 'turn bad' in 2008. That was just when they got caught.


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    #136
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    Margaret Cash is costing you 40 cent a year, a figure I plucked out of my arse. Don't get so annoyed fellas. It's not like an overpriced chicken fillet roll that I refused to pay for when I found out the price. I then started a thread on boards about it.....cos you know......that euro or so is better off in my pocket and I'm damn annoyed about it.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110354428


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    #137
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ligerdub wrote: »
    Margaret Cash is costing you 40 cent a year, a figure I plucked out of my arse. Don't get so annoyed fellas. It's not like an overpriced chicken fillet roll that I refused to pay for when I found out the price. I then started a thread on boards about it.....cos you know......that euro or so is better off in my pocket and I'm damn annoyed about it.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110354428
    You really went looking up an old thread, thinking I'd be embarrassed? Or..?

    You know that I wrote that, yea? If I didn't want someone to read it I'd have kept it to myself, like.

    Not sure where you're going with this at all. Do you?


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    #138
    Ruraldweller56
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Ruraldweller56


    ligerdub wrote: »
    Margaret Cash is costing you 40 cent a year, a figure I plucked out of my arse. Don't get so annoyed fellas. It's not like an overpriced chicken fillet roll that I refused to pay for when I found out the price. I then started a thread on boards about it.....cos you know......that euro or so is better off in my pocket and I'm damn annoyed about it.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110354428

    Now now let's not go pulling anything out of anyplace. Let's do a few quick mathematics of our own.

    So based on someone on a salary of €90,000 (I think that was the figure mentioned) Margaret Cash is 'only' costing me 40c pa.

    Margaret's salary is ≈ €50,000. 50,000/0.4 = 125,000. So assuming there's that many people in the country making €90,000 that's how much its costing them.

    ?

    No idea.

    But

    I want to make this clear. For many of the people I've come across who have had serious problems with the Margaret Cash's of this world it isn't about that. Maybe indirectly it is. Having a segment of society living on welfare impacts harder on poorer working class people than it does anyone else.

    I've moved onwards and upwards and thankfully left most of that behind me.


  • Options
    #139
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Sorry now, but I just laughed at the bling of the Connors daughter who was married recently, remember the guy who was shot in Saggart and buried in a gold coffin or something fake together with his myriad Rolex watches?

    There she was, bould as brass in a meringue the size of an island. CAB didn't seem to affect them, nor the killing of her father either.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/lavish-lifestyle-murdered-gang-boss-4137320

    I realise the report is in the Mirror, but there is nowhere else that reports the reality of some of these people's lives.

    Brass necks, and they just carry on and give us the finger.


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    #140
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,926 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Ruraldweller56 wrote: »
    No idea.

    But

    I want to make this clear. For many of the people I've come across who have had serious problems with the Margaret Cash's of this world it isn't about that. Maybe indirectly it is. Having a segment of society living on welfare impacts harder on poorer working class people than it does anyone else.

    I've moved onwards and upwards and thankfully left most of that behind me.

    Yep 100%.
    Having hardworking (real working class people) people earning €10-€15 per hour and paying tax yet earning significantly less than social welfare scroungers like Cash is a huge problem.

    Champagne socialists like Tyrant will never get this point but actual socialists will realise that left wing politics should be supporting the workers not the scroungers.


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    #141
    Ruraldweller56
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Ruraldweller56


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Yep 100%.
    Having hardworking (real working class people) people earning €10-€15 per hour and paying tax yet earning significantly less than social welfare scroungers like Cash is a huge problem.

    Champagne socialists like Tyrant will never get this point but actual socialists will realise that left wing politics should be supporting the workers not the scroungers.

    Remember, it's those same people who have to share the same spaces as them. They're the ones going to be dealing with the anti social behaviour and the crime and general nuisance you're going to get when you've people next door with nothing to do all day and being paid to do it.

    They don't care. When the working people in those areas start getting pissed off they'll just be moved into a new free house somewhere else.

    I've seen it happen time and time again.

    That's just my 40c.


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    #142
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Yep 100%.
    Having hardworking (real working class people) people earning €10-€15 per hour and paying tax yet earning significantly less than social welfare scroungers like Cash is a huge problem.

    Champagne socialists like Tyrant will never get this point but actual socialists will realise that left wing politics should be supporting the workers not the scroungers.

    The left were a friend to the “working” working class years ago

    Not anymore

    Enemies of the poorly paid private sector now


  • Options
    #143
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,926 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    The left were a friend to the “working” working class years ago

    Not anymore

    Enemies of the poorly paid private sector now

    Yes, the real left is gone and has been replaced by virtue signallers.


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    #144
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Yep 100%.
    Having hardworking (real working class people) people earning €10-€15 per hour and paying tax yet earning significantly less than social welfare scroungers like Cash is a huge problem.

    Champagne socialists like Tyrant will never get this point but actual socialists will realise that left wing politics should be supporting the workers not the scroungers.
    Ah Norman would you lay off the hyperbole a bit. I'm not long home from Lidl and I can't figure out if I'm Daddy or chips, wand then I open the Internet to this broadside. I've had enough. If I even had a bottle of champagne in the house I'd surely have earned a go at it following that unprovoked slander.

    Two things to say in all seriousness. Firstly that you must not have been reading the thread, because I kept saying that we all have the right, in a democratic society, to comment on which policies (eg a Tory-style benefits cap) should or should not be implemented. Nobody is arguing that point.

    I have simply been pointing out to a small number of people that they are not paying anything of the magnitude that they think they are to the object of their fixation.

    It was intended as an assurance, by the way of "chill out a bit or you'll give yourself a hernia" -- I think one or two of them actually saw red at this point; at this point, no logical explanation arises, I think the group had already whipped themselves into such a frenzy, things would have to run their course. Some people starting doing near-random exercises in long-division that went nowhere; another person started inquiring into my shopping habits and "why did he once refuse to pay 6 quid for a bread roll?" By now, I'm as puzzled as you are, Norman.

    I'm simply asking people not to upset themselves over having to pay pennies from their taxes for a stranger's children. And to please stop getting offended on behalf of some unitary taxpayer. I'll decide what grinds my own gears, thank you very much. You do you.

    Finally, it's not really my place to tell someone if I think they are or are not a socialist, even if their political views amount to "I'm alright Jack". Why should they care what I think about them? I am hardly the gatekeeper of socialism. Of course, you'll appreciate the same applies for anyone here issuing edicts that so-and-so isnt a socialist because they have a difference of opinion.

    That's how the gulags began, Norman. I'll sleep with my windows shut tonight.


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    #145
    lola85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭lola85


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Ah Norman would you lay off the hyperbole a bit. I'm not long home from Lidl and I can't figure out if I'm Daddy or chips, wand then I open the Internet to this broadside. I've had enough. If I even had a bottle of champagne in the house I'd surely have earned a go at it following that unprovoked slander.

    Two things to say in all seriousness. Firstly that you must not have been reading the thread, because I kept saying that we all have the right, in a democratic society, to comment on which policies (eg a Tory-style benefits cap) should or should not be implemented. Nobody is arguing that point.

    I have simply been pointing out to a small number of people that they are not paying anything of the magnitude that they think they are to the object of their fixation.

    It was intended as an assurance, by the way of "chill out a bit or you'll give yourself a hernia" -- I think one or two of them actually saw red at this point; at this point, no logical explanation arises, I think the group had already whipped themselves into such a frenzy, things would have to run their course. Some people starting doing near-random exercises in long-division that went nowhere; another person started inquiring into my shopping habits and "why did he once refuse to pay 6 quid for a bread roll?" By now, I'm as puzzled as you are, Norman.

    I'm simply asking people not to upset themselves over having to pay pennies from their taxes for a stranger's children. And to please stop getting offended on behalf of some unitary taxpayer. I'll decide what grinds my own gears, thank you very much. You do you.

    Finally, it's not really my place to tell someone if I think they are or are not a socialist, even if their political views amount to "I'm alright Jack". Why should they care what I think about them? I am hardly the gatekeeper of socialism. Of course, you'll appreciate the same applies for anyone here issuing edicts that so-and-so isnt a socialist because they have a difference of opinion.

    That's how the gulags began, Norman. I'll sleep with my windows shut tonight.

    Wow you’re so like quirky like.

    Not.


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    #146
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    lola85 wrote: »
    Wow you’re so like quirky like.

    Not.

    Obviously Lola you don't really think I'm accusing Norman of slander or of trying to land me in a gulag. It was a level of hyperbole roughly as bad as saying daft things about a stranger on the internet whom you have never met. In short, not to be taken seriously at every turn.

    Best case scenario, we understand what the other is saying and have a reasonable exchange of views. Worst case scenario, someone accuses you of being thrifty with groceries -- in a thread where it's acceptable to begrudge basic shelter and decent family life to six small children. We can do better.


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    #147
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    ligerdub wrote: »
    Margaret Cash is costing you 40 cent a year, a figure I plucked out of my arse. Don't get so annoyed fellas. It's not like an overpriced chicken fillet roll that I refused to pay for when I found out the price. I then started a thread on boards about it.....cos you know......that euro or so is better off in my pocket and I'm damn annoyed about it.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110354428

    Oh, that's brilliant. You gave me a good laugh this evening. Thanks! :pac:


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    #148
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,926 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    A
    Finally, it's not really my place to tell someone if I think they are or are not a socialist, even if their political views amount to "I'm alright Jack". Why should they care what I think about them? I am hardly the gatekeeper of socialism. Of course, you'll appreciate the same applies for anyone here issuing edicts that so-and-so isnt a socialist because they have a difference of opinion.

    I've tried to cut out most of the rubbish.

    Show me anything in socialist/marxist teaching which talks about pay without work. All Socialist economic theory talks about fair pay for labour of the worker.

    I've been to Cuba under Castro and the health system and education was incredible. Everyone had a house and access to welfare, I have never seen a more healthy and well educated people.
    However, everyone was expected to work to gain these benefits.

    There were people who didn't want to work and they lived on the streets.

    The idea that we should give benefits to people who refuse to work is not a socialist concept.


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    #149
    Ruraldweller56
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Ruraldweller56


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    Um... they didn't just suddenly 'turn bad' in 2008. That was just when they got caught.

    Right. Role playing game.

    Hello my dad sells Avon. My name is a Tyrant named Mattheus and I live in 45 o malley Park. How do you do?

    I drive a truck for a living. My partner (we're not married because obviously all that establishment/religion stuff is hocus pocus) is on maternity leave from SuperValu as she's expecting our fourth child.

    Two of my other children are in secondary school, the other still in primary. Of the 2 in secondary, one is in second year, the other in sixth.

    Guy in second year is a bit innocent. Bit of a soft touch. The traveller family across the road have kids a similar age. They've mugged him on his way to school, beaten him silly and the older guy is **** sick of it. He's battered up the lads giving his brother a hard time. I don't think anyone could really blame him.

    Thing is. This has kicked off a feud. I've had the wing mirrors kicked off my car. There's been beatings given out by both sides but they seem much more determined. It's as if they don't really care about the consequences because they know the state will look after them regardless. I'm not quite sure where this will stop.

    Being a good council house living working class Joe who reads the communist manifesto and other Karl Marx books (as do all working class folk) I get that none of this is really their fault. When a petrol bomb comes through the window, it's obviously because the quilligans across the road are fed up with the system. Clearly its not their fault.

    But what really grinds my gears, more than anything else. Is Seanie Fitzpatrick. And the banks. Grrrrr!!! And that bloody usc charge.

    SoLiDaRiTy CoMrAdE!!

    (rural dweller, dropping character) - I'd love if this was fiction. Sadly its reality for many of the people I grew up with.

    OK now your turn.


  • Options
    #150
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    does anyone think there is ever going to be a party in power in Ireland that will finally put an end to the gravy train for these parasites?

    no, because most people realize that there aren't any other cost effective options to deal with this tiny minority of people. if there were, they would be implemented.
    piplip87 wrote: »
    It's fairly simple thing to do.

    Separate disability/invalidity/bind pensions and carers allowance from the general single mothers/ dole payments.

    Give those who cannot work a nice weekly payment look after those genuinely in need.

    As for social welfare. It's ment as a stop gap between employment. I myself am on the dole at the moment have been on it a couple of weeks but expect to be back working inside the next few weeks. So this isn't a dole bashing post.

    I believe for the first 6 months on job seekers payment you should get a higher rate depending on length of time in the job rather than age.

    After 6 months brought in to see what can be done to get employment. There are many free courses for jobseekers.

    After this if there's still no work put them out sweeping the streets, cleaning schools, etc for minium wage.

    If there's nothing after this give them vouchers for local shops.

    The dole should be used between jobs/courses to help people survive, take care of the necessites. Nothing else.

    there are already people sweeping streets and cleaning schools for minimum wage. people who are actually happy to do the job even if they do want something better going forward. they do not want to have to work with the type who won't work, just like the rest of us.
    having the likes of miss cash working would just be to resource intensive as you will need someone there to actually insure she does the work. no employer will take her either because by the looks of it she has no work ethic. thankfully 99% of the country do hence the few that don't aren't really an issue, as much as we don't like them personally.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #151
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,926 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    end of the road wrote: »
    there are already people sweeping streets and cleaning schools for minimum wage. people who are actually happy to do the job even if they do want something better going forward. they do not want to have to work with the type who won't work, just like the rest of us.
    having the likes of miss cash working would just be to resource intensive as you will need someone there to actually insure she does the work. no employer will take her either because by the looks of it she has no work ethic. thankfully 99% of the country do hence the few that don't aren't really an issue, as much as we don't like them personally.

    Eh?


This discussion has been closed.
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