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05-01-2019, 11:06   #166
 
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Originally Posted by sk8erboii View Post
Europe: Gets overtaken by an authoritarian and repressive institution
Ireland: Gets overtaken by an authoritarian and repressive institution

‘But at least we never killed the jews (; ‘
Godwined the hell out of that, didn’t you.
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05-01-2019, 11:28   #167
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Originally Posted by Franz Von Peppercorn View Post
Godwined the hell out of that, didn’t you.
Try to defend the church (;
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05-01-2019, 16:01   #168
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No, the Church got away with shyte like this because society let them.
I don't disagree with that at all.

But this all started with a lay man, who impregnated a woman and then was allowed to disappear to England. And the problem were continued by Church officials.

Both equally to blame.



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Bullshyte.
See above.
You actually had a go at the man, the hackney driver, that took her to two hospitals and eventually a home.

Yes you had a go at the guy that got her pregnant, but you also called into question why anyone would have the decency to take her to a hospital.
The hackney driver made the decision on where to take her? Not the midwife. Not her mother. Not a chance that happened.

The midwife, at very least, had a responsibility to refer her to someplace that could help. Not to a maternity hospital (sic) that wasn't going to do so - and whose policies would have been well known at the time.
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05-01-2019, 16:18   #169
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Looking at the wider historic context of a Europe that was on its knees with Millions of displaced people and being kept afloat by the Marshall plan, the financial resources where not in place to support any wide scale social schemes. As one of the few solvent institutions it was Church charity that keep at least some families, including my own, from having to emigrate.
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05-01-2019, 17:07   #170
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Looking at the wider historic context of a Europe that was on its knees with Millions of displaced people and being kept afloat by the Marshall plan, the financial resources where not in place to support any wide scale social schemes. As one of the few solvent institutions it was Church charity that keep at least some families, including my own, from having to emigrate.
Where do you think the church got the money from? Manna from heaven? I don't think so.
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05-01-2019, 17:58   #171
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I don't disagree with that at all.

But this all started with a lay man, who impregnated a woman and then was allowed to disappear to England. And the problem were continued by Church officials.

Both equally to blame.





The hackney driver made the decision on where to take her? Not the midwife. Not her mother. Not a chance that happened.

The midwife, at very least, had a responsibility to refer her to someplace that could help. Not to a maternity hospital (sic) that wasn't going to do so - and whose policies would have been well known at the time.

Without wanting to state the obvious, it takes two to tango.

The absolute lack of sex ed really is to blame here. Why? because the RCC controlled all education sectors and preached and continues to preach btw, an unhealthy attitude towards sex.

For all we know the BF went to work in England to make a few bob to provide and then seemed to disappear. Anything could have happened to the man, we don't know. Like a lot of Irish men who went to England in those days he could have fell into drink, failed to find work, felt disgraced by family (almost a certainty) who knows.
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05-01-2019, 22:03   #172
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Without wanting to state the obvious, it takes two to tango.

The absolute lack of sex ed really is to blame here. Why? because the RCC controlled all education sectors and preached and continues to preach btw, an unhealthy attitude towards sex.

For all we know the BF went to work in England to make a few bob to provide and then seemed to disappear. Anything could have happened to the man, we don't know. Like a lot of Irish men who went to England in those days he could have fell into drink, failed to find work, felt disgraced by family (almost a certainty) who knows.
They were taught NO.
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05-01-2019, 22:26   #173
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They were taught NO.
They were taught sex outside of marriage was a sin.

Forbidden fruit and all that nonsense.
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05-01-2019, 22:36   #174
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They were taught NO.
Which coupled with the lack of sex education and the withholding of contraceptives bred some very unhealthy attitudes in society towards sex.

People were ill equipped with knowledge and the consequences were enormous.
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06-01-2019, 20:56   #175
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Missing the main point, yet again. The issue is funding, are you going to advocate the state spends billions purchasing land from religious institutions or is ranting like a one tooth bigot all you have? (The bigot remark stems from previous comments you made about Catholics by the way, all there on the record.)
You like to run the mouth quite a lot, don't you?

Either withdraw the bigot remark, provide links to back it up if you can, or I will report you for personal abuse. Your style of posting reflects very badly upon you.

As for funding, we already fund the running of the schools and we paid to build almost all of them. But our craven politicians didn't ensure that we got ownership of these schools (same as is happening with the NMH)

We should have a constitutional amendment and seize all national schools without compensation.


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Yet, more anecdotal fairy stories.
Your ignorance is your problem. Read the School Patronage thread in A&A. Plenty of evidence there about how nasty some religious schools are towards parents wishing to opt their kids out of religion. You appear to be either profoundly ignorant or deep in denial.

Also read this thread Daughter forced to believe in God



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Again, an issue with funding...
It's not an issue with funding, it's an issue that 96% of the primary schools we pay for are controlled by religious organisations, most of whom insist on pushing their dogma on children against the wishes of their parents and violating their constitutional rights.

Last edited by Hotblack Desiato; 06-01-2019 at 21:05.
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21-01-2019, 02:38   #176
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Ireland suffered a major famine beginning in 1845 and many people lived on the edge of starvation up until the 1960s'. I come from Listowel where my mother operated and owned a store for over 50 years. The people there are little different from those in the rest of the country. I would go so far as to say the Irish at that time were consumed with trying to survive both their living conditions and an ideological indoctrination that would make the Saudi Arabian Wahabbis look reasonable. A brutalised people who turned on each other at every opportunity. Prosperity since the 1960s' has allowed progress to be made for which we should all be grateful. I might add that the EU took our Govt. kicking and screaming into the 20th century in the 1970s'.
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21-01-2019, 10:23   #177
It wasnt me123
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Originally Posted by Church on Tuesday View Post
They were taught sex outside of marriage was a sin.

Forbidden fruit and all that nonsense.
Unless it was the clergy who were doing it and then it was grand.
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21-01-2019, 11:58   #178
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We should have a constitutional amendment and seize all national schools without compensation.
LOL. Sure thing. Let's turn Ireland into a greener version of Stalin's Russia while you are at it. You complained earlier about being called a bigot, well here is an example of you being one.

Calling for a constitutional amendment to seize all the private property, owned by various religious orders and institutions, without compensation is certainly motivated by being an anti-religious bigot.

You also said earlier you do not trust ANY priest or nun, tarring them all with one brush. Its fine that you hate the people in the Catholic church, I am no thought police but at least own it and stop the faux outrage at being called out at your behavior.

By the way, your plan would also be against the ECJ AND the UNCHR, but I guess you don't think past your foaming hatred of religion.


Quote:

It's not an issue with funding
Then why does the state not provide more money to a) fund more educate together schools or b) buy the property of national schools owned by religious bodies?

Why not seize schools via payment? Why do you want the state to seize this land without compensation if the issue is not funding?

Mod-Banned

Last edited by Nosnon; 21-01-2019 at 20:17.
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21-01-2019, 12:21   #179
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The simpler solution is to ban any teaching of religion in state funded schools. No need to buy schools from religious orders or seize them. If parents want their children to learn about religion they can teach them themselves or send them to sunday. Expect religious participation to fall off a cliff if the state were brave enough to do that.
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21-01-2019, 12:28   #180
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Originally Posted by ohnonotgmail View Post
The simpler solution is to ban any teaching of religion in state funded schools. No need to buy schools from religious orders or seize them. If parents want their children to learn about religion they can teach them themselves or send them to sunday. Expect religious participation to fall off a cliff if the state were brave enough to do that.
I would not be against that idea per say, but it would be wildly unpopular with the majority of parents. And parents vote.

I sympathise with parents who want to put their kids into an ET school and cannot get a place but to turn the blame from the government to religious-run schools is just idiotic.
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