Negative vaping publicity

Guffy · 12-09-2019 9:07pm #1

I'm surprised there has been no discussion here about all of the recent negative reports on vaping. Reports coming out if the US with a lot of severe illnesses/death directly attributed to vaping.

Myself, i haven't seen anything concrete tbh. Seems like scare mongering to me but just from a cursory glance.

Has anyone else looked into this in more depth

u140acro3xs7dm · 12-09-2019 9:12pm

Guffy wrote: »

I'm surprised there has been no discussion here about all of the recent negative reports on vaping. Reports coming out if the US with a lot of severe illnesses/death directly attributed to vaping.

Myself, i haven't seen anything concrete tbh. Seems like scare mongering to me but just from a cursory glance.

Has anyone else looked into this in more depth

Inhaling chemicals every few minutes, every day, can't be good. I smoked for a few years, never had any side-effects, I'm sure if I kept it up for another 30 years that would be a different though. Most vapers are only vaping a couple of years. It took decades for them to figure out the cigarettes were bad.

gimli2112 · 12-09-2019 9:16pm

I saw the Trumps now think it's bad and just assumed Big Tobacco had written them a cheque. I used smoke but had given up before vaping became a thing.

Guffy · 12-09-2019 9:19pm

gimli2112 wrote: »

I saw the Trumps now think it's bad and just assumed Big Tobacco had written them a cheque. I used smoke but had given up before vaping became a thing.

That was my first thought as well, it's a campaign run by big tobacco. But I assume they're all in on the vaping game at this stage anyway?

corkie · 12-09-2019 9:44pm

Vitamin E acetate contaminant cause of illness of people vaping cannabis products!

corkie wrote: »

Thought most of the health problems in the states was due to street bought cannabis/marijuana oils?

[nytimes] The Mysterious Vaping Illness That’s ‘Becoming an Epidemic’
A surge of severe lung ailments has baffled doctors and public health experts.

Does Vaping Really Cause Lung Damage? | MUST SEE! | IndoorSmokers

^^^ 200 cases out 10 millions of vaper's over 10 years ~~~ 0.019 %%%%??

More toxins in the pollution's in the air you breed walking down a city street than what may or not be in vaping e-liquid.

I'm not affiliated with any store or review site.

corkie wrote: »

vitamin E acetate contaminant cause of illness of people vaping cannabis products.

[boingboing.net] Vaping deaths and illnesses linked to contaminant

From paywall article: - [washingtonpost] https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/09/05/contaminant-found-vaping-products-linked-deadly-lung-illnesses-state-federal-labs-show/?noredirect=on

Mike Vapes
3 hours ago
Make sure to catch the Vape Team tonight on Mike Vapes channel at 10pm eastern time. We will have Matt SMM and The Vaping Legion on to alert everyone about the Rally in D.C.

Also doing the rounds in the states: -

5skuSoUxqs2Ka8_gW7BOFotsinF7S1oxpniQkRvvfvwVTGujaiNMjKsrFdpWq7VD3PVU26cRlHTAbF8=w640-h640-p-nd-df

## I'm not affiliated with any store or review sites. ##

Sleeper12 · 12-09-2019 9:45pm

Guffy wrote:

Myself, i haven't seen anything concrete tbh. Seems like scare mongering to me but just from a cursory glance.

They have linked 5 deaths to vaping with 100 percent certainty.

We haven't seen much publicity about what's going on in the States because the EU have much tougher regulations.

colm_mcm · 12-09-2019 9:51pm

https://youtu.be/4SX9yYVscEo

corkie · 12-09-2019 9:54pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They have linked 5 deaths to vaping with 100 percent certainty.

We haven't seen much publicity about what's going on in the States because the EU have much tougher regulations.

See above, vaping of street bought cannabis/marijuana oils

Press and Media in the states are neglecting to share that important piece of information and just making it about vaping in general.

As you/others have pointed out the EU is more regulated with more restrictions on chemicals that can be put in ejuice.

Sleeper12 · 12-09-2019 10:07pm

corkie wrote:

See above, vaping of street bought cannabis/marijuana oils

I saw that but there are some with the illness that haven't vaped Street bought oils. They are certain about this but I suppose their certainty is based on the people being honest about what they vaped. It is possible that they vaped street bought oils and aren't being honest about it

12-09-2019 10:11pm

Nothing about the ~1400 people a day dying in the US from tobacco?

I don't think vaping is completely harmless but the difference between it and smoking is night and day.

Dr Bill V1.5 · 13-09-2019 12:06am

The bottom line here is without going into all the detail is that the US government are loosing out on billions of $'s paid annually from the tobacco companies. Do they care about public health...no, do they care about vaping being a gateway to smoking for the youth...no, do they care about the revenue being lost by people switching from smoking to vaping...yes.

As mentioned, thankfully on this side of the world it's a little more regulated,but that's not to say our government won't follow suit as it usually does.

No one is going to argue that the only safe thing to fill your lungs with is fresh air but for many people,vaping has been the only way for them to stop smoking. The jury is still out on the long term health effects of vaping but from what we know to date there are a lot less harmful ingredients in vaping than in cigarettes.

The recent deaths/illness related to vaping have offered them the perfect excuse to use a sledgehammer on a peanut. Cynical but unfortunately true.

Dr Bill V1.5 · 13-09-2019 12:38am

And for information,the US government take approximately 45% tax from each pack of 20 cigarettes,add to that a levy that every State or city can charge the tobacco companies to allow them sell their products. Philip Morris,one of the largest tobacco companies in the US still managed to make a tidy profit after tax.....35.1 Billion $.

optogirl · 13-09-2019 10:11am

I'm hoping that it's Big Tobacco greed that is promoting these stories. I've been vaping almost 2 years now and haven't bought or smoked a cigarette in that time. I am still addicted to nicotine though. If anecdotal evidence is anything to go by, and it isn't, I can't see how vaping is as bad for me as smoking. I don't wake up with a tight chest and a lump of mank to hock up. I don't have chest infections anywhere near as much as I used to. I don't 'feel' my lungs when I inhale the vape.

kippy · 13-09-2019 10:16am

optogirl wrote: »

I'm hoping that it's Big Tobacco greed that is promoting these stories. I've been vaping almost 2 years now and haven't bought or smoked a cigarette in that time. I am still addicted to nicotine though. If anecdotal evidence is anything to go by, and it isn't, I can't see how vaping is as bad for me as smoking. I don't wake up with a tight chest and a lump of mank to hock up. I don't have chest infections anywhere near as much as I used to. I don't 'feel' my lungs when I inhale the vape.

I suppose it all depend on "what" you are vaping but in general I wouldn't disagree with the assertion that vaping is nowhere near as bad for your health as smoking traditional cigarettes.
That doesn't make vaping "good" just not as bad.
If it helps people get off the cigarettes I am all for it but if people continue to vape after a certain time period I'd be concerned that they may suffer longer term issues that have yet to be fully determined.
I would in no way suggest that people go from vaping back to cigarettes based on the stories mentioned above so I dont think the cigarette companies have anything to gain by the publicity.

J Mysterio · 13-09-2019 10:19am

colm_mcm wrote: »

https://youtu.be/4SX9yYVscEo

I actually had a search of the vaping forum yesterday to see if there was a thread on this after having watched this exact video on YouTube.

It looks like all this sh1t in the states is a deliberate misrepresentation. From what I can see, the majority of the people in difficulty have been vaping home made CBD oil, and not e-liquid produced by reputable companies.

I think most people who vape recognise that it's not entirely benign, but it's a damn sight better than smoking.

My view is that it's probably to stick to some of the less fancy flavours as the flavouring is where the risk is. About a year after I started vaping there was the diacetyl scandal and discussion about 'popcorn lung' etc. with a suggestion that butter/ cream/ cake/ custard flavours might have some risk attached.

I have mostly only vaped 'Bright Tobacco' for years, which is very bland. I do sometimes vape other stuff too, and don't worry too much about it.

I'd like to see continuing research and study. I don't trust much about the US these days though, particularly with the maniac they have in charge, so preferably independent European studies.

J Mysterio · 13-09-2019 10:21am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I saw that but there are some with the illness that haven't vaped Street bought oils. They are certain about this but I suppose their certainty is based on the people being honest about what they vaped. It is possible that they vaped street bought oils and aren't being honest about it

Who is to know what else they have been doing in their lives? Maybe they were working in a popcorn factory - who knows?

Circumstantial stuff like this is worthless. Frankly, it is all worthless until there are independent studies and research that can prove something.

kippy · 13-09-2019 10:33am

J Mysterio wrote: »

Who is to know what else they have been doing in their lives? Maybe they were working in a popcorn factory - who knows?

Circumstantial stuff like this is worthless. Frankly, it is all worthless until there are independent studies and research that can prove something.

Indeed, but one cannot carry one regardless and suggest that it's totally safe to vape.
The less vaping, the better for people.

Dr Bill V1.5 · 13-09-2019 10:40am

optogirl wrote: »

I'm hoping that it's Big Tobacco greed that is promoting these stories. I've been vaping almost 2 years now and haven't bought or smoked a cigarette in that time. I am still addicted to nicotine though. If anecdotal evidence is anything to go by, and it isn't, I can't see how vaping is as bad for me as smoking. I don't wake up with a tight chest and a lump of mank to hock up. I don't have chest infections anywhere near as much as I used to. I don't 'feel' my lungs when I inhale the vape.

Unfortunately governments can't legislate for people's own stupidity and sadly people will always look for a new 'high' and a new way to deliver that 'high'. On this occasion vaping products were used to deliver a cannabis based liquid containing a very high level of vitamin E acetate,these products were purchased from street vendors. This has been the common link between 5 of the 6 deaths in the US. The 6th person had a long history of respiratory problems from general health issues not related to vaping but the fact that she vaped made the headlines.
10 million people in the US vape so you can imagine the effect that has on the tax intake to the government from the lack of tobacco sales considering that 45% of the cost of each pack of 20 cigarettes goes directly to them.
I won't say that vaping is better than smoking because as I said earlier the only healthy option for a person's lungs is fresh air but for anyone trying to quit smoking then vaping is a healthier option and has a much higher success rate than any other alternative.

rob316 · 13-09-2019 10:53am

optogirl wrote: »

I'm hoping that it's Big Tobacco greed that is promoting these stories. I've been vaping almost 2 years now and haven't bought or smoked a cigarette in that time. I am still addicted to nicotine though. If anecdotal evidence is anything to go by, and it isn't, I can't see how vaping is as bad for me as smoking. I don't wake up with a tight chest and a lump of mank to hock up. I don't have chest infections anywhere near as much as I used to. I don't 'feel' my lungs when I inhale the vape.

And with vaping there is structured way of coming off the nicotine, you can drop all the way down to 3mg and then 0mg. The only addiction you might have then is the hand movement and habit.

Either way the media and especially social media is going to kill the industry in the US and severely damage the industry here and in Europe.

corkie · 13-09-2019 11:06am

The Vape Team - Trump's Flavorless Gamble

http://unitedvapersalliance.org/

It is over an hour long!

jonski · 13-09-2019 12:30pm

kippy wrote: »

Indeed, but one cannot carry one regardless and suggest that it's totally safe to vape.
The less vaping, the better for people.

Indeed, but you could say that about a lot of things . The less sugar the better for people, the less cars the better for people, the less caffeine the better for people, the less alcohol the better for people etc .

kippy · 13-09-2019 12:31pm

jonski wrote: »

Indeed, but you could say that about a lot of things . The less sugar the better for people, the less cars the better for people, the less caffeine the better for people, the less alcohol the better for people etc .

Indeed,
And that is always the response that comes back.

13-09-2019 12:43pm

As an ex smoker, I've always been skeptical of vaping.
It might be healthier than smoking, but generally, in my opinions, vapers vape a whole lot more than smokers smoke.
I have a number of friends who vape, and then seem to be puffing away on it a lot more frequently than smokers light up.

I have no hidden agenda here, I think let people smoke and vape to their hearts consent, and stop trying to guilt people into stopping.
But I do feel that after a few more years, we will start to see the real results of vaping. I imagine it will be considered bad for you as well, and be linked with numerous deaths. But sure, what isn't bad for you.

As for the conspiracies around smoking, I absolutely agree that governments want people to smoke. The tax on smokers is a huge source of income for countries. If governments really cared about saving the lives of smokers, they would be doing a huge amount more.
Even the government back support groups for stopping smoking are cynically named. "QUIT" is a terrible name. It immediately provides negative connotations. The idea of quitting something makes people think they've failed. Or that they're missing out on something.
I quit a race. I quit the course I was doing. [/tangent]

kippy · 13-09-2019 12:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As an ex smoker, I've always been skeptical of vaping.
It might be healthier than smoking, but generally, in my opinions, vapers vape a whole lot more than smokers smoke.
I have a number of friends who vape, and then seem to be puffing away on it a lot more frequently than smokers light up.

I have no hidden agenda here, I think let people smoke and vape to their hearts consent, and stop trying to guilt people into stopping.
But I do feel that after a few more years, we will start to see the real results of vaping. I imagine it will be considered bad for you as well, and be linked with numerous deaths. But sure, what isn't bad for you.

As for the conspiracies around smoking, I absolutely agree that governments want people to smoke. The tax on smokers is a huge source of income for countries. If governments really cared about saving the lives of smokers, they would be doing a huge amount more.
Even the government back support groups for stopping smoking are cynically named. "QUIT" is a terrible name. It immediately provides negative connotations. The idea of quitting something makes people think they've failed. Or that they're missing out on something.
I quit a race. I quit the course I was doing. [/tangent]

Im not sure I agree with this - it would probably depend on the state/government and how healthcare was/is funded.
There are not insignificant direct and indirect costs associated with smoking:
https://health.gov.ie/healthy-ireland/tobacco/an-assessment-of-the-economic-costs-of-smoking-in-ireland/

jonski · 13-09-2019 12:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a number of friends who vape, and then seem to be puffing away on it a lot more frequently than smokers light up.

I wonder about this myself, as someone who vapes a lot . I definitely seem to be vaping more than I was smoking but I also wonder is it just that with a cigarette you light it and smoke it straight away other wise it burns out whereas with vaping there is no fear of it burning away so you end up tipping away at it for longer . Maybe we don't intake more we just do it for longer ........ and maybe I'm just fooling myself .

jonski · 13-09-2019 12:55pm

kippy wrote: »

Im not sure I agree with this - it would probably depend on the state/government and how healthcare was/is funded.
There are not insignificant direct and indirect costs associated with smoking:
https://health.gov.ie/healthy-ireland/tobacco/an-assessment-of-the-economic-costs-of-smoking-in-ireland/

I think the problem is the tax take from smoking is needed NOW , the perceived cost saving IF vaping is less harmful than smoking wouldn't be seen for a decade or two . So if loads quit smoking now and start vaping what pays for the healthcare associated with smoking for those years ?

13-09-2019 12:55pm

kippy wrote: »

Im not sure I agree with this - it would probably depend on the state/government and how healthcare was/is funded.
There are not insignificant direct and indirect costs associated with smoking:
https://health.gov.ie/healthy-ireland/tobacco/an-assessment-of-the-economic-costs-of-smoking-in-ireland/

I dont want to derail this thread
I should have said, that was my opinion. I have no concrete facts to back up my opinion.
My opinion is based on the fact, that the government increase the price of a box of cigarettes practically every year, and as the majority of smokers and ex smokers know, this isn't going to stop people from smoking
While I smoked, prices increased by about 100%. I could barely afford it at the beginning, and I could barely afford it at the end. But I continued to smoke.
If the government actually wanted smokers to stop, then, IMO, they would try something different.

*Full disclosure, I used the Allen Carr method to stop smoking, and the difference in using that method, over the government backed methods for me, were night and day. I dont have official stats, just those that were quoted to me, so apologies if they are completely inaccurate.
Those who use government backed methods to become a non smoker have a 2% chance of success. The Allen Carr method has something like a 49% success rate.
Surely the government know, or have access to these stats, and if they are content with the low success rates, then I stand by my opinion that governments dont want people to stop smoking

kippy · 13-09-2019 12:56pm

jonski wrote: »

I think the problem is the tax take from smoking is needed NOW , the perceived cost saving IF vaping is less harmful than smoking wouldn't be seen for a decade or two . So if loads quit smoking now and start vaping what pays for the healthcare associated with smoking for those years ?

That doesn't make any sense if you think about it.
It has to be paid for from other areas - taxing cigarettes more for example - this works both ways.

kippy · 13-09-2019 12:59pm

Apologies, I may be taking the thread off topic.
Best wishes to all trying to get out of the habit.

bladespin · 13-09-2019 1:04pm

I know that when I was smoking I had the usual breathing issues, shortness of breath after exertion, morning cough etc etc. But I swapped to vaping some time back and now I can run without wheezing afterwards, no coughing in the morning and so on, not a scientific answer but for me vaping is far better.

Spanish Eyes · 13-09-2019 1:05pm

Vaping will be excise taxed here sooner or later. The only thing stopping it right now is the fact that according to proper Health Reports it is safer than smoking cigarettes.

So taxing it out of reach of those who are benefiting from not smoking fags might not go down well.

Negative vaping publicity

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