Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

Base price wrote: »

Bollocks - if he slaughters hundreds of cattle then he should have no problem getting them into his local factory.

It's not 'no problem' getting a load away since protests.

Doesn't seem to matter how many u killing, everyone waiting for a turn

mycro2013 wrote: »

This is an issue for the dairy industry as a whole. From the top to the bottom. The co-ops cant be washing their hands of it and then having the marketing department portray the image of sustainable dairy.

That is it in a nutshell, if you choose to produce a poor calf result poor money or sort by rearing yourself, the cull cow is the same. Met a neighbour yesterday who was complaining about selling a JEx cow in the mart 485kg and got 180 euros and reckons it was a wrong price and he was robbed. Asked what was the story about her, out of the parlour and scanned empty and going dry in milk.
Anybody things this wasn’t her value is away with the fairies and the same about a poor calf.

Base price wrote: »

Ah, now you are being species specific - "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" :rolleyes:

An article about free range broiler production in Cavan or Monaghan popped up on my news feed this morning. I didn't have an opportunity to read it as a neighbour arrived looking for the loan of two cow trailer and the laptop had turned off by the time I got back to the house. Unfortunately I cannot find the article now but I think the name of the company was Darina or something similar.

Danpo? ScandiStandard bought Carton brothers Manor Farm poultry operations in 2017 for €94 million, after the two brothers families had no interest in continuing on the business.
Danpo is one of the companies that ScandiStandard owns.

(This is not in relation to your post but the general discussion in which you were replying to).

I'm not sure about inovation of welfare being consumer led. It's down to the whims of those in industry.
If there's a €2 chicken on the shelf beside an €18 organic free range chicken. Especially in the British isles you'll know which one is bought first in a heartbeat.
Any inovation is just the continuing eroding of revenue always borne solely by the primary producer.

alps wrote: »

Looks like the ICMSA lads were partying it up at the latest think in...

The full details of this new scheme are as follows:
The scheme will be open to all livestock farmers, but agents and feedlots would be excluded;
Farmers that apply to the scheme must rear calves from the dairy herd;
Farmers can only stock their farm at the stocking rate they had in 2019, so as to avoid an increase in beef production;
Male and female calves with a beef sire and dairy dam are eligible for the scheme. However, the sire must be selected from the ICBF Dairy Beef Index (DBI) or if a stock bull is used, the stock bull must have four or five stars on the terminal index;
The calves must be less than six weeks-of-age at time of purchase;
An initial payment of €75 can be drawn down by the farmer once the animal is weighed between six and ten months;
The second payment of €75 is drawn down after the animal is slaughtered;
Steers must be slaughtered within 30 months and heifers must be slaughtered within 24 months;
Suckler farmers that wish to enter the scheme in 2020 should be allowed exit the Beef Data Genomics Programme (BDGP) without any ‘clawback’ of monies;
Farmers can only avail of the scheme on a maximum of 100 calves per year

Sounds like a good scheme to me. Makes far more sense than subsidising suckler cows.
The main reason lads want to keep suckler cows is they look nice. The creation of the suckler herd is largely down to the introduction of milk quotas. Its has nothing to do with economics and nothing to do with the quality of beef. Beef from a jex steer is better in terms of eating quality than that from a chx steer.

alps wrote: »

Looks like the ICMSA lads were partying it up at the latest think in...

The full details of this new scheme are as follows:
The scheme will be open to all livestock farmers, but agents and feedlots would be excluded;
Farmers that apply to the scheme must rear calves from the dairy herd;
Farmers can only stock their farm at the stocking rate they had in 2019, so as to avoid an increase in beef production;
Male and female calves with a beef sire and dairy dam are eligible for the scheme. However, the sire must be selected from the ICBF Dairy Beef Index (DBI) or if a stock bull is used, the stock bull must have four or five stars on the terminal index;
The calves must be less than six weeks-of-age at time of purchase;
An initial payment of €75 can be drawn down by the farmer once the animal is weighed between six and ten months;
The second payment of €75 is drawn down after the animal is slaughtered;
Steers must be slaughtered within 30 months and heifers must be slaughtered within 24 months;
Suckler farmers that wish to enter the scheme in 2020 should be allowed exit the Beef Data Genomics Programme (BDGP) without any ‘clawback’ of monies;
Farmers can only avail of the scheme on a maximum of 100 calves per year

The icbf dairy beef index and it been hearld as the gospeal for good beef bulls is the most farcical thing, its weighted towards easy calving bulls not the best bulls for a beef farmer to maybe turn a few euro on a calf to beef system, kya been still on the list says it all

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

What are the choice cuts, Patsy? All the premium cuts will be too large for retail so they will be going for extra processing as industrial cuts in prepared meals which is purchased purely on price.

The JEx may be smaller but his premium cuts will be more suitable for retail that the continental animal? And the non premium will be going to where the majority of suckler beef will be going and nobody any the wiser?

But is that not just in this country and since the weight limits came into effect

Since the beef quota was removed beef farmers (around here anyway) have reduced their cow number, And due to the last 2 years there is a bigger reduction happening
Even if more beef calves from the dairy herd could take the space on the ships, there is still allot of calves for the processors to control the market

Last February my neighbor was telling me how they got good calves for €80 . Took them to mart this week and got €300 for most . After buying powder ,meal etc makes you wonder

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Very little for the man whisking milk. I tried it here this year. Bought HE and AA heifers from a dairy neighbour for €185 in May when they were 6-7 weeks old. Gave them powder-milk for another 3 weeks and they’ve got 0.6kg meal for most of the time since then and the best of new grass. They’ve been vaccinated for blackleg and got 2 worm doses. They’re averaging 200kg now, after gaining around 0.7kg/day since they landed here.

Based on €1.50/kg (maybe even €1.40), they’re now worth what they cost plus the various inputs. Thankfully we don’t have too many fixed costs or this carry on wouldn’t be possible at all.

Plan is to out-winter them on rape and try to finish for this time next year. As Bass said, they’re the only animals who get a breed payment so that should help make them pay their way when everything is added up in 12 months time.

For a part-timer like me, the €75 that ICMSA are talking about would certainly help

If they were on good grass you could more than likely have pulled the ration. It growth rate that the issue. You need cattle like that to be gaining nearly 1kg/day to have a chance. However buying calves and selling as weanling is a loser anyway. Better to carry to a store. Those are good heifers if 200kg. Of you had kept you meal until mid September and fed them 1Kg outside and housed late November/December. Feed silage and 1kg for the winter these calves would be tipping 280kgs at turn out. in mid March. You should be able to finish just before or after Christmas next year at 250DW. On them type of cattle as well as friesians there is only a margin for one man.

If you bought them at 100 euro and killed at a base of 3.9 they be juts tipping 1K after deductions.

alps wrote: »

Looks like the ICMSA lads were partying it up at the latest think in...

The full details of this new scheme are as follows:
The scheme will be open to all livestock farmers, but agents and feedlots would be excluded;
Farmers that apply to the scheme must rear calves from the dairy herd;
Farmers can only stock their farm at the stocking rate they had in 2019, so as to avoid an increase in beef production;
Male and female calves with a beef sire and dairy dam are eligible for the scheme. However, the sire must be selected from the ICBF Dairy Beef Index (DBI) or if a stock bull is used, the stock bull must have four or five stars on the terminal index;
The calves must be less than six weeks-of-age at time of purchase;
An initial payment of €75 can be drawn down by the farmer once the animal is weighed between six and ten months;
The second payment of €75 is drawn down after the animal is slaughtered;
Steers must be slaughtered within 30 months and heifers must be slaughtered within 24 months;
Suckler farmers that wish to enter the scheme in 2020 should be allowed exit the Beef Data Genomics Programme (BDGP) without any ‘clawback’ of monies;
Farmers can only avail of the scheme on a maximum of 100 calves per year

Surprised nobody has questioned the logic in giving the most profitable and environmentally destructive sector another subsidy that will only further undermine the beef industry...

Mooooo wrote: »

Lad that buys calves here would have near all of his sourced by the first week of March off farm. Predominantly fr bulls and he used to do u16 month bulk beef, dunno if he still finishes that way. Excellent operator so would do everything right. I think the fact he buys the earliest calves he can helps a lot as a) they are generally cheaper and b) they make better use of grass. Without fail the dearest calves I've sold have been ones born in April, makes no sense

It's because of the reduction in quantity of calves coming to market and the shippers still operating. There's a sweet spot in calves for sale usually the very early ones (Jan sold) and the late ones.

Out of the posts posted here Base Prices makes the most sense and at least she she's the big picture of economics, markets, animal welfare, and understands that a life is a life no matter the species.
Only difference between the egg producers and ourselves is they don't have Darragh McCullough going on about a cock problem and what to do about it. But then Darragh McCullough is not on the hatcheries because they're private companies with no filming allowed and no farmers wondering on social media what they do with their cocks. They just got on with the job and traps shut.
It's not like years ago where cocks were the banes of the farmyard and dumped here there and yonder and thrown onto the rugby and hurling pitch.

If the milk companies see it as a problem and feel embarrassed let them pay someone to rear the calf (it's not as though they haven't got it. The ceo pays themselves over a million euro ffs) and then they can market that meat. At the moment it's all being pushed onto the farmer who see no problem bar the few voices here with many not involved at all or even resident in the country.

I'd agree that there needs to be something done though. The images of some French or Irish cnut bating calves in a lairage or animal on the streets of Libya with an Irish tag is not going to cut it anymore.
Even the politicians bawk at that.

Say my name wrote: »

It's because of the reduction in quantity of calves coming to market and the shippers still operating. There's a sweet spot in calves for sale usually the very early ones (Jan sold) and the late ones.

Out of the posts posted here Base Prices makes the most sense and at least she she's the big picture of economics, markets, animal welfare, and understands that a life is a life no matter the species.
Only difference between the egg producers and ourselves is they don't have Darragh McCullough going on about a cock problem and what to do about it. But then Darragh McCullough is not on the hatcheries because they're private companies with no filming allowed and no farmers wondering on social media what they do with their cocks. They just got on with the job and traps shut.
It's not like years ago where cocks were the banes of the farmyard and dumped here there and yonder and thrown onto the rugby and hurling pitch.

If the milk companies see it as a problem and feel embarrassed let them pay someone to rear the calf (it's not as though they haven't got it. The ceo pays themselves over a million euro ffs) and then they can market that meat. At the moment it's all being pushed onto the farmer who see no problem bar the few voices here with many not involved at all or even resident in the country.

I'd agree that there needs to be something done though. The images of some French or Irish cnut bating calves in a lairage or animal on the streets of Libya with an Irish tag is not going to cut it anymore.
Even the politicians bawk at that.

Lads can blame Darragh McCullough, fellas on here or anyone else. The Cock/Female chicken is an outside issue. It has SFA to do with cattle production. It more than likly will be able to be solved at the eggs stage in 5 years time, it may even be possible now buy using a tech solution. Even in NZ now the booby calf issue is coming under scrutiny. It will not be allowed to come an issue in Ireland by either Irish politicians or at EU level either. Already we see a push against exporting, this is why calves no longer go the land bridge via the UK because the ferries into the UK stopped carrying them.

Just last year we had a Dutch film crew high lighting our slatted housing. What ever happens to calves will have a much higher profile and is harder to hide. When we hit 20K slaughtering next year start to expect notice.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Lads can blame Darragh McCullough, fellas on here or anyone else. The Cock/Female chicken is an outside issue. It has SFA to do with cattle production. It more than likly will be able to be solved at the eggs stage in 5 years time, it may even be possible now buy using a tech solution. Even in NZ now the booby calf issue is coming under scrutiny. It will not be allowed to come an issue in Ireland by either Irish politicians or at EU level either. Already we see a push against exporting, this is why calves no longer go the land bridge via the UK because the ferries into the UK stopped carrying them.

Just last year we had a Dutch film crew high lighting our slatted housing. What ever happens to calves will have a much higher profile and is harder to hide. When we hit 20K slaughtering next year start to expect notice.

Right so we can't export calves or cattle.
Because it's a welfare issue.

We can't end a calf's life at birth or a few days old or a few weeks old.
Because it's a welfare issue.

Tell me kind sir what do we do with all these extra calves and cattle on the island of Ireland?
And who will rear them and who will kill them whenever ( seemingly not a welfare issue) and what encouragement will be given to that person to rear them?

Answer the above but show us where the money to do so is coming from in this crowded market on this island.

I say island as you know NI could be lumped in with us.

Ai man was telling me here that he had used no jersey straws on any local farms 6 weeks into the breeding season this year