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Pay our Nurses/healthcare staff a decent wage

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  • Options
    #32
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    Edgware wrote: »
    I think it is called the trough, now available at Seanad Eireann

    If you want to call out troughs, there are much deeper ones than that.


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    #33
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    https://igees.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/26.-Nursing-and-Midwifery-Expenditure.pdf

    2018 Govt spending review of Nurses, prepared by IGEES

    Finding 16:

    16. International evidence suggest that nursing and midwifery remuneration in the Irish
    Public Health system is high comparatively.

    Compared to a new entrant nurse in the English NHS, a new entrant nurse in Ireland earns
    21% more in basic pay based on current exchange rates. While allowances and
    promotional opportunities differ across jurisdictions, a nurse at the top of the HSE staff
    nurse scale would earn 39% more than a nurse at the top of the NHS England Band 5 scale.

    More broadly, OECD nursing remuneration data show that, in purchasing power parity
    terms, Irish nursing pay (including allowances and premium payments) between 2007 and
    2017 was consistently on a par with Australia and higher than New Zealand, Canada and
    the UK.


  • Options
    #34
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    ITman88 wrote: »
    How does it compare to the UK or European countries?

    Nearly 40% above English rates.


  • Options
    #35
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    beolight wrote: »
    J

    You know what there’s a reason why so many Nurses and Doctors emigrate!
    Forget about the Parade how about we just pay them a decent wage? No tiered increases phased over 3 year nonsense tied to work productivity or changes in work practice just a straight forward wage increase like the ones the Politicians award themselves.


    AGAIN, AGAIN, for the hundreth time, TDs do not, and can not do this.

    TDs have no control over their own pay.

    This has been explained over and over.


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    #36
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    beolight wrote: »
    J

    work practice just a straight forward wage increase like the ones the Politicians award themselves.


    I have sent you a PM to make sure you are aware that this does not happen.

    It can't happen.


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    #37
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,066 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    circadian wrote: »

    The majority of the population rely on the health service, Gardai and fire service. If I need to call ont he help of these services do I want someone that is exhausted, underpaid and undervalued?

    They are not underpaid.


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    #38
    KilOit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭KilOit


    Pay is good with plenty of training provided if they wish to advance to cnm or cns levels which pay is increased substantially.
    I'd agree that the conditions could be improved, recruit more and reduce their hours to 37


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    #39
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    gary550 wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0209/1028490-nurses-pay/

    Improve working conditions & staffing shortage - yes

    But in my opinion, based on actual figures, nurses are not underpaid.

    Based on the fact that nurses caring for "non COVID-suspect" patients are not allowed to wear masks even though their work requires them to constantly breach the very guidelines that are being drummed into everyone else, and given that the possibility of asymptomatic transmission makes everyone COVID-suspect, I'd say they're not paid enough.

    (I'd settle for them getting masks and goggles though.)


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    #40
    Dakota Dan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    beolight wrote: »
    Just seen the post below on the main thread and taught this should be highlighted as the main thread is so busy it will be buried in no time

    “Quote: c montgomery
    St Patrick's Day Parade 2021

    Dedicated to health care workers who walk the parade to ovations from the public who they protected in 2020.

    Make it happen everyone”


    You know what there’s a reason why so many Nurses and Doctors emigrate!
    Forget about the Parade how about we just pay them a decent wage? No tiered increases phased over 3 year nonsense tied to work productivity or changes in work practice just a straight forward wage increase like the ones the Politicians award themselves.
    Every Minister of Finance has resisted their wage demands over the years and any concessions are hard fought and Minuscule
    I know the sight of all the politicians in the Dail giving them a round of applause last week was greeted with gritted teeth by most Nurses/Doctors/ healthcare staff

    After this they’ll be lucky if they can maintain their current wages.


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    #41
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    Dakota Dan wrote: »
    After this they’ll be lucky if they can maintain their current wages.

    After this if anyone tries to cut the nurse's wages they'll have a ****storm on their hands.


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    #42
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Geuze wrote: »
    Nearly 40% above English rates.
    Ask any of the Irish nurses and other medics working in the U.K. hospitals. Completely different work practices and great opportunities for further advancement but they work hard for everything they get


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    #43
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    storker wrote: »
    After this if anyone tries to cut the nurse's wages they'll have a ****storm on their hands.

    That's OK then, we cut the rest of the public sector even harder to shield the nurses from cuts.

    I'm sure the rest of the public sector won't breathe a whimper of objection.


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    #44
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    Could be wrong but i was of the understanding that nurses were there to care for the sick, thats what you sign up for so if cuts have to be made after this nurses like everybody else should be included.


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    #45
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    salonfire wrote: »
    That's OK then, we cut the rest of the public sector even harder to shield the nurses from cuts.

    I'm sure the rest of the public sector won't breathe a whimper of objection.

    Anyone in the public sector is welcome to retrain as a nurse if they want.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    The various unions, including those of nurses and healthcare staff need to brought to heel before any additional money is spent on salaries.

    The restrictive and unproductive working practices that are rife with the HSE are the reason Irish taxpayers have one of the worst but most expensive healthcare systems in the developed world.

    Despite the populist bolloxolgy in the OP, the last thing we should be doing is pumping more money (which we won't have anyway) into it without serious reform.

    Maybe we have one of the most expensive public sectors because we also have one of the most expensive private sectors in the world?

    (Fyi, I believe that actually the private sector salaries are higher on the global list than public sector)


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Geuze wrote: »
    They are not underpaid.

    Take allowances for working Christmas, nights, holidays and overtime out of the equation.

    Now include all the business owners that for tax reasons only pay themselves a minimum wage and don't include the millions in profits but are very very wealthy people.

    Now divide that more accurate average private salary by the average working week in the private sector and multiple back to 40 hours (I'm taking about people only working 20, 25 hour weeks and part time staff btw) to get the actual full-time average salary.

    Now we are getting closer to a fair comparison between the two. However you are still comparing Jobs being worked by people that didn't finish school to people with third level educations and ignoring the importance / difficulty if the careers so really, can we ever compare fairly? Shouldn't a public sector doctor working 70 hours get paid a lot more than someone with no formal education working 25 hours in a shop?

    I mean no disrespect to those careers by the way but a need to be realistic


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    #48
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    beolight wrote: »
    Just seen the post below on the main thread and taught this should be highlighted as the main thread is so busy it will be buried in no time

    “Quote: c montgomery
    St Patrick's Day Parade 2021

    Dedicated to health care workers who walk the parade to ovations from the public who they protected in 2020.

    Make it happen everyone”


    You know what there’s a reason why so many Nurses and Doctors emigrate!
    Forget about the Parade how about we just pay them a decent wage? No tiered increases phased over 3 year nonsense tied to work productivity or changes in work practice just a straight forward wage increase like the ones the Politicians award themselves.
    Every Minister of Finance has resisted their wage demands over the years and any concessions are hard fought and Minuscule
    I know the sight of all the politicians in the Dail giving them a round of applause last week was greeted with gritted teeth by most Nurses/Doctors/ healthcare staff

    They are already well paid


  • Options
    #49
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    ITman88 wrote: »
    How does it compare to the UK or European countries?

    Significantly higher


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    #50
    gary550
    Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭gary550


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Take allowances for working Christmas, nights, holidays and overtime out of the equation.

    Now include all the business owners that for tax reasons only pay themselves a minimum wage and don't include the millions in profits but are very very wealthy people.

    Now divide that more accurate average private salary by the average working week in the private sector and multiple back to 40 hours (I'm taking about people only working 20, 25 hour weeks and part time staff btw) to get the actual full-time average salary.

    Now we are getting closer to a fair comparison between the two. However you are still comparing Jobs being worked by people that didn't finish school to people with third level educations and ignoring the importance / difficulty if the careers so really, can we ever compare fairly? Shouldn't a public sector doctor working 70 hours get paid a lot more than someone with no formal education working 25 hours in a shop?

    I mean no disrespect to those careers by the way but a need to be realistic

    Apples and oranges

    I really don't see your point


  • Options
    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gary550 wrote: »
    Apples and oranges

    I really don't see your point

    My point was pretty simple, comparing a nurse with a degree that's working 50+ hours and holidays to someone who left school at 16 and works 25 hours a week in a shop isn't a fair comparison of 'average' wages so maybe, just maybe the begrudgers might do some actual research before commenting


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    #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    anplaya27 wrote: »
    SCW here. I also have a postgrad. Work for hse organisation. Am on frontline. 12.74 ph. Nurses are far better paid tbh.

    Oh for goodness sake, their salaries are public information just like mine and yours. Why is everyone ignoring that? They start on 30k once qualified and registered. That's for a 40 hour week. Social workers start on 33k per annum in 2015 but another link showed a current job starting at 44k so that's bothmore than a nurse but without the allowances because you would only get them working for the out of hours and similar

    (https://www.inmo.ie/attachment.aspx?doc=5243)
    (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/benefitsservices/pay/consolidated-payscales-1st-april-2017.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwix7f6y-tToAhXGQhUIHf4nAOAQFjAMegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3xAVf3pMMnKSoaM74pGekB)
    (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.tusla.ie/uploads/content/NRS02234_Job_Spec_Tusla_Professionally_Qualified_Social_Worker.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwix7f6y-tToAhXGQhUIHf4nAOAQFjARegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3A9-NywqFGw4dB0KNEx4Rg&cshid=1586216000938)

    Here's mine by the way but I'm no rookie. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gra.ie/documents/PayScales.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiap7ba-9ToAhVRZxUIHcgpBQ4QFjAUegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0zgd6oTD7uudt1IK2QC9PF)

    And for all those saying they are already well paid, nurses start at 14.38 pet hour. Aldi are currently recruiting sales staff for between 12.30 and 14.10 per hour.
    (https://www.aldirecruitment.ie/apply/)

    Nurses do a much harder and more important job than the majority posting here, myself included. they should be paid more for that. Get over it and accept your not as important.


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    #53
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,176 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Nurses are on 37k after about 9 months once registered.

    It is a good salary and it doesn't stop there.


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    noodler wrote: »
    Nurses are on 37k after about 9 months once registered.

    It is a good salary and it doesn't stop there.

    Care to Back that with evidence?

    The salary scale, again all public, shows that it takes 5 years to reach 37k.


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    #55
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,176 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Care to Back that with evidence?

    The salary scale, again all public, shows that it takes 5 years to reach 37k.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/resources/hr-circulars/hr-circular-022-2019-re-enhanced-nurse-midwife-contract.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiY0NPGh9XoAhWuXRUIHXlJCS8QFjACegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw014UiI_SUQQalqkO3HO6XC


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    #56
    jams100
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭jams100


    Whilst nurses do deserve more, are we going to give more money to the HSE? They already get over 17 billion per year and that was before this corona virus. I'm going to go against the grain here and say no, but, surely out of that 17+ billion a year efficiencies in some areas could be found to give an increase?
    Again, they do deserve an increase but we owe 206 billion before this corona virus which will most likely be 240+ billion this time next year. Sure every €1 out of €13 spent by our government goes on paying the interest on our debt about 6 billion per year.
    Fair play to all the nurses, doctors, cleaners etc at this time. It should be an easy decision but it's easy to say yes to everything...you could argue more money needs to go to homelessness, mental health, transport ultimately it all has to be shared out and tough decisions have to be taken


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    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    noodler wrote: »
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/resources/hr-circulars/hr-circular-022-2019-re-enhanced-nurse-midwife-contract.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiY0NPGh9XoAhWuXRUIHXlJCS8QFjACegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw014UiI_SUQQalqkO3HO6XC

    That's not for nurses. That's for enhanced nurses and you need to have attained level 4 on a nurses salary to be eligible to apply.


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jams100 wrote: »
    Whilst nurses do deserve more, are we going to give more money to the HSE? They already get over 17 billion per year and that was before this corona virus. I'm going to go against the grain here and say no, but, surely out of that 17+ billion a year efficiencies in some areas could be found to give an increase?
    Again, they do deserve an increase but we owe 206 billion before this corona virus which will most likely be 240+ billion this time next year. Sure every €1 out of €13 spent by our government goes on paying the interest on our debt about 6 billion per year.
    Fair play to all the nurses, doctors, cleaners etc at this time. It should be an easy decision but it's easy to say yes to everything...you could argue more money needs to go to homelessness, mental health, transport ultimately it all has to be shared out and tough decisions have to be taken

    Less external experts and staff.

    The hse pays more for an agency staff member than those directly employed. Another brilliant move back when people were demanding public sector redundancies.


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    anplaya27 wrote: »
    Eh I'm not a social worker. I work for a hse organisation but im not on the hse scale.

    Fair enough but you did say you were a social care worker.


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    #60
    gary550
    Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭gary550


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    My point was pretty simple, comparing a nurse with a degree that's working 50+ hours and holidays to someone who left school at 16 and works 25 hours a week in a shop isn't a fair comparison of 'average' wages so maybe, just maybe the begrudgers might do some actual research before commenting

    Nurses go into the job open eyed on what is required of them and know what they will be payed for it. Comparing the public and private sector is pointless.

    Our of curiosity what do you think is a fair wage for a nurse?


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    #61
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,361 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    I never get the mentality that because someone has a degree in the broad human services field and is paid poorly then everyone including nurses should not be paid more.

    What about comradery and lifting each other up?

    Nuses salaires and all HSE salaires are avaible on line.


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