Age of consent for social media accounts?

beauf · 17-02-2018 5:28am

They could easily block this, from the social media companies as its obvious by the crud they watch who is a child.

But we choose to ignore it.

Peregrinus · 17-02-2018 6:09am

Go back and read the OP, beauf. France proposes not to ignore it. The discussion is about whether this is (a) desirable and (b) practical.

Fathom · 24-02-2018 12:55am

Peregrinus wrote: »

Sure, it's overly simplistic.

My point.

Peregrinus wrote: »

We all know, for example, people under 18 who are intelligent, informed, politically aware and would make excellent voters. Similarly, we all know people over 18 who will vote asking themselves only one question; what's in this for me?

"We all know?" I find these generalizations problematic.

Peregrinus wrote: »

But the fact remains that the population under 18, taken as a whole, lack the information, maturity, judgment, etc to make a positive contribution to the common good by voting, while the population over 18, for the most part, does have that degree of information, maturity, etc.

"But the fact remains...?" Contrary evidence? Age 18 and under survivors of school shootings at Florida's Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School question (over 18) politicians in their local Florida government and Washington DC on national media and by physical protests, questioning their judgement, as well as the influence the NRA and other pro-gun lobbies may have on those judgements, while students continue to die over-and-over again in America in school shootings too numerous to list here.

Peregrinus wrote: »

In short, the fact that a line is a fairly fuzzy line doesn't mean that there's no line. And drawing an over-simplistic hard line through a fuzzy area may still produce a better outcome than drawing no line at all.

Needs scientific empirical support before drawing line in sand?

mzungu · 24-02-2018 6:30pm

Fathom wrote: »

My point.

"But the fact remains...?" Contrary evidence? Age 18 and under survivors of school shootings at Florida's Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School question (over 18) politicians in their local Florida government and Washington DC on national media and by physical protests, questioning their judgement, as well as the influence the NRA and other pro-gun lobbies may have on those judgements, while students continue to die over-and-over again in America in school shootings too numerous to list here.

An argument to be made that if the lives of Under 18s are at risk in schools due to gun laws, then it is only right they get to vote on the matter?

Black Swan · 25-02-2018 6:17pm

Fathom wrote: »

"But the fact remains...?" Contrary evidence? Age 18 and under survivors of school shootings at Florida's Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School question (over 18) politicians in their local Florida government and Washington DC on national media and by physical protests, questioning their judgement, as well as the influence the NRA and other pro-gun lobbies may have on those judgements, while students continue to die over-and-over again in America in school shootings too numerous to list here.

Case study level of data analysis? Some utility, but not able to generalise to a larger population?

Fathom · 25-02-2018 8:05pm

mzungu wrote: »

An argument to be made that if the lives of Under 18s are at risk in schools due to gun laws, then it is only right they get to vote on the matter?

Complex determination. Should be empirically based. Not upon political, religious, cultural or similar subjective opinions. Another example. In America at age 18 you can vote, sign legally binding contracts, and join the military (and die for your country), but you cannot have a beer. Should "age of consent for social media accounts" be also based upon such arbitrary and capricious "lines in the sand?"

Black Swan wrote: »

Case study level of data analysis? Some utility, but not able to generalise to a larger population?

You got me there!

mzungu · 26-02-2018 9:32pm

Fathom wrote: »

Complex determination. Should be empirically based. Not upon political, religious, cultural or similar subjective opinions.

Another example. In America at age 18 you can vote, sign legally binding contracts, and join the military (and die for your country), but you cannot have a beer. Should "age of consent for social media accounts" be also based upon such arbitrary and capricious "lines in the sand?"

Indeed, if you can die for your country the least you should be able to do is have a final beer without breaking the law. Any law that is implemented must make sense and also be realistic in its aims.

Black Swan · 28-03-2018 7:20pm

Rigorous empirical research may suggest age of consent?

Peregrinus · 29-03-2018 1:55am

Black Swan wrote: »

Rigorous empirical research may suggest age of consent?

Clarify, please. Are you asking whether rigorous empirical research suggests what the age of consent should be, or whether rigorous emperical research suggests merely that there should be an age of consent?

And, in either case, consent to what, exactly? Are we still talking about an age limit below which someone shouldn't be permitted to have a social media account (why in God's name is that framed as an "age of consent", anyway), or about age of consent in the more usual sense, the age at which a consensual sexual relationship is not considered a crime.

Fathom · 29-03-2018 6:34pm

mzungu wrote: »

Indeed, if you can die for your country the least you should be able to do is have a final beer without breaking the law.

Shows arbitrary and capricious nature of age of consent laws.

mzungu · 29-03-2018 9:45pm

Fathom wrote: »

Shows arbitrary and capricious nature of age of consent laws.

Increased digital media education in schools and awareness campaigns might be a runner alongside increased vigilance. Having Twitter or Facebook as over 18s or over 16s may not be workable for a multitude of reasons.

Black Swan · 01-04-2018 7:13pm

I am uncertain if the OP has defined "age of consent." In terms of my reference to age of consent, I am referring to state and federal laws that specify a certain age before a citizen is allowed to do something; e.g. sign legally binding contracts, enlist in military, drink alcohol, etc.

(Sorry about my delay in responding, but I have been having access problems to boards, and HQ has been working with me to solve them.)

beauf · 01-04-2018 8:01pm

The problem is all the companies in the chain from software to hardware and media producers have removed all means to control access to content from the end users.

Take Netflix their profiles have no pin. Most age related filtering and controls across all services are abysmal and getting worse. Even TV doesn't always have age ratings

Unless that changes you can't control it.

Fathom · 01-04-2018 8:46pm

mzungu wrote: »

Having Twitter or Facebook as over 18s or over 16s may not be workable for a multitude of reasons.

Too late. The genie's out-of-the-bottle.

beauf · 01-04-2018 10:52pm

Fathom wrote: »

Too late. The genie's out-of-the-bottle.

Well no one is interested putting it back.

Fathom · 02-04-2018 2:34am

beauf wrote: »

Well no one is interested putting it back.

Longer it's out. Harder to put it back.

beauf · 02-04-2018 9:56am

I don't think education will work either. They have deliberately confusticated and hidden the privacy and data collection controls and also constantly re arranged them. Specifically to make them impossible to control.

Besides which there isnt the technical knowledge in schools or with parents to get over that hurdle. Most IT professionals are baffled by then also.

mzungu · 03-04-2018 11:11pm

Black Swan wrote: »

I am uncertain if the OP has defined "age of consent." In terms of my reference to age of consent, I am referring to state and federal laws that specify a certain age before a citizen is allowed to do something; e.g. sign legally binding contracts, enlist in military, drink alcohol, etc.

(Sorry about my delay in responding, but I have been having access problems to boards, and HQ has been working with me to solve them.)

Good point. I was working off the French case, where the permission off ones parents is needed under 16. Possibly this might be something rather different to being the legal age to drink as it appears the parents are taking on the responsibility for signing off on their children's info (potentially) being used.

mzungu · 03-04-2018 11:14pm

beauf wrote: »

I don't think education will work either. They have deliberately confusticated and hidden the privacy and data collection controls and also constantly re arranged them. Specifically to make them impossible to control.

Besides which there isnt the technical knowledge in schools or with parents to get over that hurdle. Most IT professionals are baffled by then also.

Education as means to understand media more is a good idea. You won't be able to do much about the privacy data part of things, but for more everyday web browsing you could. In the past it allowed young adults to critically examine the magazines and adverts targeted towards them more. On the digital front little has changed, it is a different medium, but the same messages are being thrown at them.

Fathom · 06-04-2018 12:21am

Add to above. Lots of kid crackers. Find holes. Workarounds. Proxies. Etc.

beauf · 06-04-2018 1:10am

mzungu wrote: »

Education as means to understand media more is a good idea. You won't be able to do much about the privacy data part of things, but for more everyday web browsing you could. In the past it allowed young adults to critically examine the magazines and adverts targeted towards them more. On the digital front little has changed, it is a different medium, but the same messages are being thrown at them.

I think the point is that they've removed the control (even of "everyday browsing") out of everyone's hands by doing it by nefarious means without telling you.

“Privacy means people know what they’re signing up for, in plain English, and repeatedly,” Jobs said. “Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of your asking them. Let them know precisely what you’re going to do with their data.” - Steve Jobs

http://fortune.com/2018/03/28/steve-jobs-facebook-cambridge-analytica-privacy/

Fathom · 09-04-2018 8:54pm

Data means profits. Providing free access is not free. Is it a fair exchange?

beauf · 09-04-2018 9:19pm

Fathom wrote: »

Data means profits. Providing free access is not free. Is it a fair exchange?

Depends if they are transparent about what the deal is. Thus far they haven't been. Which suggests they know it's not right.

GDPR will make this a lot more interesting.

Fathom · 11-04-2018 2:39am

beauf wrote: »

Depends if they are transparent about what the deal is. Thus far they haven't been. Which suggests they know it's not right. GDPR will make this a lot more interesting.

Watched part of Mark Zukerburg's testimony before the US Senate today. Facebook transparency was a major issue. Only a couple Senators tried to pin him down. Each asked 4 minutes of questions. Republican. Democrat. Republican. Democrat. Ted Cruz (Republican of Texas) was posturing. Advancing his campaign agenda. Not really interested in Zukerburg's replies. What transparency? Did Cambridge Analytica sell the 80 million plus FB member data base to the Russians? Zukerburg could not answer. Zukerburg waited 2 years to let members know that member data was compromised. What does that tell you about FB? Obvious that FB lost control of data for most of their member accounts. Zukerburg admitted that he was cooperating with Special Counsel Mueller. Makes me wonder when Trump will fire Mueller? Just like Richard Nixon did during Watergate. Trump's private attorney's records have been raided and confiscated. Is the noose tightening about the president's neck?

mzungu · 12-04-2018 4:45pm

Fathom wrote: »

Watched part of Mark Zukerburg's testimony before the US Senate today. Facebook transparency was a major issue. Only a couple Senators tried to pin him down. Each asked 4 minutes of questions. Republican. Democrat. Republican. Democrat. Ted Cruz (Republican of Texas) was posturing. Advancing his campaign agenda. Not really interested in Zukerburg's replies.

What transparency? Did Cambridge Analytica sell the 80 million plus FB member data base to the Russians? Zukerburg could not answer. Zukerburg waited 2 years to let members know that member data was compromised. What does that tell you about FB? Obvious that FB lost control of data for most of their member accounts. Zukerburg admitted that he was cooperating with Special Counsel Mueller.

Makes me wonder when Trump will fire Mueller? Just like Richard Nixon did during Watergate. Trump's private attorney's records have been raided and confiscated. Is the noose tightening about the president's neck?

Exactly. The performance in front of the senate seems to have taken the heat off FB for the time being. The question is, do we really know all that much more now than we did last week? Sure, everybody that needed to look tough for their voter base got their chance to look tough. Zuckerberg did the contrite routine to appeal to the Facebook user base etc.

Was it convincing though? Personally would say at this point no. Zuckerberg wasn't exactly facing any tough questions, and besides, how many asking the questions would have the knowledge required to really go toe to toe with him?

Fathom · 12-04-2018 11:09pm

mzungu wrote: »

Exactly. The performance in front of the senate seems to have taken the heat off FB for the time being.

Obviously. FB stock rebounded. Zuckerburg now 3 billion richer. "Money talks..."

mzungu wrote: »

Zuckerberg did the contrite routine to appeal to the Facebook user base etc.

Crocodile tears.

mzungu wrote: »

Zuckerberg wasn't exactly facing any tough questions

Kamala Harris asked (former) Attorney General questions. But only had 4 minutes.

mzungu wrote: »

and besides, how many asking the questions would have the knowledge required to really go toe to toe with him?

Exactly.

mzungu · 13-04-2018 3:16pm

Fathom wrote: »

Obviously. FB stock rebounded. Zuckerburg now 3 billion richer. "Money talks..."

Crocodile tears.

Kamala Harris asked (former) Attorney General questions. But only had 4 minutes.

Exactly.

Calls for Zuckerberg to testify in front of EU lawmakers. No idea if he will do it but considering FB username is worldwide it might not look the best if he decides not to. In this case I would prefer those asking the questions to have expertise in the area, otherwise it would be meaningless PR.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/13/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-asked-to-testify-in-front-of-eu.html

Fathom · 14-04-2018 12:06am

mzungu wrote: »

Calls for Zuckerberg to testify in front of EU lawmakers. No idea if he will do it but considering FB username is worldwide it might not look the best if he decides not to.

EU has regulations. Wonder if FB broke any? As pertains to age of consent?

mzungu wrote: »

In this case I would prefer those asking the questions to have expertise in the area, otherwise it would be meaningless PR.

Same tune, 2nd verse. (US then EU)

mzungu · 15-04-2018 8:41pm

Fathom wrote: »

EU has regulations. Wonder if FB broke any? As pertains to age of consent?

Not sure on that front, but possibly the only thing broken was the spirit of the law...which won't result in anything more than a telling off!

Fathom wrote: »

Same tune, 2nd verse. (US then EU)

Stage managed so. Might as well head to the theatre, at least there are no pretences that it's real!

Fathom · 16-04-2018 2:46am

mzungu wrote: »

Stage managed so. Might as well head to the theatre, at least there are no pretences that it's real!

Zuckerburg did not suspend my disbelief.

Age of consent for social media accounts?

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