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How relevant to you is the controversy over feminism?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    https://www.pinterest.ie/pin/350014202291129679/
    By this logic, it would seem we live in a "burglary culture" which promotes burglary.

    Also, it would seem that suggesting things that might reduce the chances that you will be burgled is blaming the victim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    Another feminist post by RTE:
    Though, I admit some of the entries on Urban Dictionary are probably not men's finest hour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,527 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    iptba wrote: »
    Another feminist post by RTE:

    Though, I admit some of the entries on Urban Dictionary are probably not men's finest hour.

    I note that the "study" (if one could term it that) defines "ejaculation...on women" as "misogynictic" and "sexual violence against women". And that using the common as hell phrase "your mom" is "dehumanization of women". Kinda shows how the authors approached it really....

    I do wonder what an "Alabama hot pocket" is though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    Tanya Sweeney: 'For richer, not poorer - why can't we admit life is easier when you marry money?'

    https://www.independent.ie/style/voices/tanya-sweeney-for-richer-not-poorer-why-cant-we-admit-life-is-easier-when-you-marry-money-38575861.html

    Possibly not surprisingly, she is talking about women marrying men with money rather than the reverse.
    And then Mary Kenny, columnist with this parish, articulated the uneasy truth I'd been grappling with. "Apparently Michelle Obama and Melinda Gates tour the world teaching women and girls how to be empowered," she tweeted yesterday. "Good for them. Do they give the advice, which has empowered them? First, marry the right man (preferably with $$$$). My mother's advice exactly."
    If there's sufficient fiscal comfort in this union, it gets a lot easier to strive for success, to take risks, to shoulder the odd knock and to chase opportunities. If the bills are taken care of, it gives women the comfort and confidence to reach out, lean in, whatever she wants to do. Oh, and the access to paid help, if it's needed.

    I'm in awe of women who pulled their way up to success all by themselves - think Lynn Ruane or JK Rowling - but more often than not, I meet 'self-made' women, whose ventures or hustles were only possible because Him Indoors was able to take charge of the bills for a length of time.

    Now, let's consider the other scenario for a second. If you find yourself hitched to a deadbeat bloke, it's that bit harder to empower yourself. Your resources, whether it's time, responsibility, help or money, are less bountiful. Reaching for the stars becomes harder than Michelle and Melinda make it sound.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    More propaganda, this time in the Irish Independent, claiming we need to discrimination once it helps women:
    Liz Kearney: 'BBC's Wark proves positive discrimination may be best way to close gender power gap'
    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/liz-kearney-bbcs-wark-proves-positive-discrimination-may-be-best-way-to-close-gender-power-gap-38580472.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    Why is Greta Thunberg so triggering for certain men?
    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/why-is-greta-thunberg-so-triggering-for-certain-men-1.4002264

    I finally got around to reading this article, which was the most read article on the Irish Times website for a number of days, according to the daily digest.

    It boils down to listing 3 men, two in the UK and one in Australia.

    The same article could easily have been written by replacing men with people in the heading. I imagine she or the editor/subeditor would have been less inclined to write a similar heading which included criticising women.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    In the latest Irish Times:
    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/greta-thunberg-derangement-syndrome-claims-another-victim-pat-kenny-1.4046482
    Greta Thunberg derangement syndrome claims another victim: Pat Kenny
    The condition is triggered by exposure to a Swedish girl who doesn’t want the world to end
    Another week, another on-air outbreak of Thunberg derangement syndrome. Though not yet as widespread as the more common Trump variant, which mainly afflicts US Democrats and people of moderate civility, this new condition has spread rapidly among older men, triggered by exposure to a Swedish girl who doesn’t want the world to end. With Ryan Tubridy having recently come down with a dose (albeit mild and possibly misdiagnosed), Pat Kenny has now become the latest Irish broadcaster to display telltale signs of agitation.

    It turns out that Pat Kenny was criticised by a listener for how he pronounced her surname. He then played a recording of her saying her surname. Not exactly a strong criticism of the young woman and her politics and it hardly proves much about men.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,908 ✭✭✭LostinBlanch


    Well, to be fair. Pat Kenny doesn't have the best track record with pronouncing surnames.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    (Irish Times)
    ‘Show us your boobs and you’ll get a tip’: An Irish waitress’s life

    NEW RESEARCH PAINTS A PICTURE OF WIDESPREAD SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN IRISH RESTAURANTS, CAFES AND HOTELS. HERE, PEOPLE WORKING IN THE SECTOR SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/show-us-your-boobs-and-you-ll-get-a-tip-an-irish-waitress-s-life-1.4060380

    I haven't read this (it is over 4000 words), but based on a quick search for "men" and "male", it looks like it only highlights the stories of female victims except for this one short mention:
    It’s a worldwide problem, Farrell points out. “More sexual-harassment claims in the US are filed in the restaurant industry than in any other,” she says. Surveys across 39 US states found unwanted sexual behaviour and harassment were experienced by 60 per cent of women and 46 per cent of men. In Nordic countries, too, sexual harassment is widespread in hospitality, she says.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    (South Korea)
    A Realmeter poll last year of more than 1,000 adults found that 76% of men in their 20s and 66% of men in their 30s oppose feminism, while nearly 60% of respondents in their 20s think gender issues are the most serious source of conflict in the country.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/21/asia/korea-angry-young-men-intl-hnk/index.html

    9-minute video on this
    Men's rights and anti-feminism increasing in South Korea


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    Gender pay gap means women 'working for free' until next year
    https://www.independent.ie/business/in-the-workplace/gender-pay-gap-means-women-working-for-free-until-next-year-38679044.html

    I'm not convinced.
    ---
    Meanwhile, a new survey found that the gender pay gap often begins at the start of working life, given that many women set their pay expectations 10pc lower than male peers straight out of university.

    The survey asked nearly 11,000 new graduates from 25 different Irish universities and colleges to specify their salary expectations.

    Among those graduates with degrees in science, tech, engineering and maths (Stem) fields, the male applicants expected €37,404 while their female peers said they expected only €33,543, some 10.3pc less.

    Male business and economics graduates expected to be paid €35,564 against an expectation of €33,426 among women, 6pc less.

    Irishjobs.ie and employer branding firm Universum, which produced the research, said that the findings highlight an important factor driving pay differentials between men and women in many starting roles.
    I found this sort of research more informative.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    iptba wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/business/in-the-workplace/gender-pay-gap-means-women-working-for-free-until-next-year-38679044.html

    I'm not convinced.
    ---
    I found this sort of research more informative.Meanwhile, a new survey found that the gender pay gap often begins at the start of working life, given that many women set their pay expectations 10pc lower than male peers straight out of university.

    The survey asked nearly 11,000 new graduates from 25 different Irish universities and colleges to specify their salary expectations.

    Among those graduates with degrees in science, tech, engineering and maths (Stem) fields, the male applicants expected €37,404 while their female peers said they expected only €33,543, some 10.3pc less.

    Male business and economics graduates expected to be paid €35,564 against an expectation of €33,426 among women, 6pc less.

    Irishjobs.ie and employer branding firm Universum, which produced the research, said that the findings highlight an important factor driving pay differentials between men and women in many starting roles.
    Reminds me of a study an equality body in the UK did years ago where the same job description was advertised at two different pay rates (maybe £17,000 and £32,000). Most of the applications to the lower-paid job were female and the higher-paid job were male.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    An interesting topic, but I don't think it was fully explored. For example, there are quotas for gender in politics, but not for other types of group who might have a low representation. Same thing can be seen in how much effort is put into initiatives to increase representation of women in other situations and jobs versus initiatives for other groups.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    Senator Mulherin said the media coverage of Ms Bailey was "incessant" and she believes a man would not have received as much attention in her situation.

    "I think the coverage of what has happened to her isn't proportionate or fair. This is going on since last May and it has been incessant, the coverage she's got, the abuse she's got. I seriously wonder if she was a man if she would have got it."
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/michelle-mulherin-says-maria-bailey-coverage-isnt-proportionate-or-fair-as-td-removed-from-election-ticket-964372.html

    I'm not sure


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    iptba wrote: »

    If I recall, Maria Bailey at the time the story broke, claimed that she was a strong independent woman and people don't like that!!!

    There is certain infantile attitude with these grown women, she was caught trying to claim off a private business who did what they could to assist her at the time, we are in a claims crisis as premiums are going through the roof...there are businesses closing down across the country...she then did an extraordinary interview with the National Broadcaster that really honed attention on the issue...but ya...the "men don't like women" angle conveniently avoids self awareness...

    The more of these idiots that are out there playing the gender card the better, it's never the smart women that engage in it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,527 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    iptba wrote: »

    IIRC Ms Mulherin was caught up to boldness herself a little while back so perhaps has a vested interest in female politicians being 'untouchable'. I vaguely recall that she pulled the gender card time that time too - may be wrong on that though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,908 ✭✭✭LostinBlanch


    Here's an interesting article in the Daily Mail on women who have championed mens rights, and the backlash they have gotten as a result.

    Interestingly they are explicitly stating that there is an explicitly anti male agenda at play. I have highlighted some quotes below.
    Alison Bushell who runs a social work consultancy: Britain's family courts are engaged in practices that separate fathers from their children, knowingly or not, Alison believes. She says: 'The pressure groups springing up, some of which are advising the Ministry of Justice on domestic violence cases, have an anti-male agenda.' . . . 'False allegations are more prevalent than people realise and supervision orders disproportionately happen to fathers.'

    'Since Office for National Statistics figures state that 40 per cent or more victims of domestic abuse are men, this is alarming.

    'When will people realise that holding on to a gendered narrative in domestic abuse is harmful?'

    As for gender politics, Alison admits she has performed a volte-face. 'In the 80s I spent time at Greenham Common and lived in a women-only house. I even had a badge declaring 'a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle'. How times change.
    Belinda Brown, 54, is a social anthropologist and co-founder of Men For Tomorrow: She plans to continue his (her late husbands) work by exposing what she sees as a deliberate attempt by feminist activists to undermine the traditional family unit.

    She writes and speaks on a range of topics concerning men for platforms such as The Conservative Woman website, and carries out research aimed at reinforcing 'traditional' values. . . . As for the future of gender relations, she has this to say: 'I hope one day soon feminism will be seen as an interesting period of history, but one which caused tremendous damage to society.'
    As an anthropologist, she learned about feminism during her studies, but disagreed with much of what she heard.

    'I was always aware of my own power and the power of other women,' she says. 'While I knew there were injustices which needed rectifying, today I see more injustices afflicting men.

    'Most men work extremely hard to provide for their families, often at considerable cost to themselves. For women to ignore these sacrifices and instead blame men for all the problems in the world, it's divisive and damaging to gender cohesion.'
    Sonia Shaljean, 49, founded award-winning community interest company, Lads Need Dads: The organisation has a team of trained male mentors, who encourage emotional intelligence in boys aged 11-15 with absent fathers. It also provides opportunities for youngsters to take part in outdoor activities, learn practical life skills and volunteer in the community.

    She believes it helps to have a woman at the helm. 'If it were a man leading an all-male organisation, it could possibly be disregarded by some women.

    'Our aim at Lads Need Dads is to provide support, guidance and encouragement — and a much-needed male voice to enable boys to open up.
    Erin Pizzey, 80, founded women's charity Refuge. She is now a patron of the charity Families Need Fathers: 'I'm all for equality of the sexes,' Erin Pizzey says.

    'But equality isn't the endgame for those feminists who believe women would be far better off without men.'

    'Of the first 100 women who came into my refuge, 62 were as violent or more violent than the men they had left,' she says.

    'Therefore, domestic violence can't be a gender issue, it can't be just men, because we girls are just as badly affected.'

    She became a hate figure for saying so. 'They branded me a 'victim blamer'. 'After a bomb scare, the police suggested my post be sent to them for inspection.' She says: 'I am fighting for my son, my grandsons and my great grandsons, so that they might have a future where men are no longer demonised.'


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Found this lovely video.






    Tbh, I think feminism is teaching women to behave like this. Use a screechy voice as an attack, and look for 'support' in the onlookers. Which is all well and good, but I kind of wonder how men are meant to react?



    Imo, I would have had no problem if he shouted back and used his deep voice to counteract her screaming.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    Found this lovely video.






    Tbh, I think feminism is teaching women to behave like this. Use a screechy voice as an attack, and look for 'support' in the onlookers. Which is all well and good, but I kind of wonder how men are meant to react?



    Imo, I would have had no problem if he shouted back and used his deep voice to counteract her screaming.

    What an absolute brain donor/psycho.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭iptba


    Christmas is a feminist issue: Who does all the menial, emotional, mental labour?
    It is time to strike – You never know, you just might get a Christmas miracle
    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/christmas-is-a-feminist-issue-who-does-all-the-menial-emotional-mental-labour-1.4095802
    One comment underneath:
    A time-use study by the ESRI a couple of years ago showed that men and women do equal amounts of work (i.e. paid work and unpaid domestic work). Men did a bit more paid work and women did a bit more domestic work. Interestingly, the study showed also that men and women have on average the same amount of leisure time (not very much). Therefore, if the author and her other feminist friends want to less domestic work they will have to step up and work longer hours in paid employment, take on more overtime, take less annual leave, and commute longer. Get a move-on ladies!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    This is an Australian Senator who is leading the drive into the corrupted family courts in Australia....

    I am coming across more and more women who are voicing their own opinions that are directly opposite to the feminist hot topics like Domestic Violence, Pay Gap etc etc, it is genuinely refreshing

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubP8FXueGM


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    A time-use study by the ESRI a couple of years ago showed that men and women do equal amounts of work (i.e. paid work and unpaid domestic work). Men did a bit more paid work and women did a bit more domestic work. Interestingly, the study showed also that men and women have on average the same amount of leisure time (not very much). Therefore, if the author and her other feminist friends want to less domestic work they will have to step up and work longer hours in paid employment, take on more overtime, take less annual leave, and commute longer. Get a move-on ladies!

    Going a bit off on a tangent here, but you know what's the most interesting/worrying part in that? This one:
    ... men and women have on average the same amount of leisure time (not very much).

    Literally EVERYONE I know keeps complaining about having "no time" for this or that and they act bewildered when I mention having this or that hobby, for them it's "HOW DO YOU HAVE TIME?".

    You know what? It's a problem that is entirely self-inflicted. Very few people in Europe actually work very long hours. We need to snap out of this culture where "having no time" is considered somewhat cool or pretty much a badge of honour.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Yeah, I know a huge amount of men who go to Asia to work just to be able to sit down with a cup of coffee and watch the world go by without being judged.

    Eh, I really don't like this trend tbh and I feel like its quite recent in Ireland/Europe. Its like, why in the world would you boast how little sleep you get?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    You know what? It's a problem that is entirely self-inflicted. Very few people in Europe actually work very long hours. We need to snap out of this culture where "having no time" is considered somewhat cool or pretty much a badge of honour.

    Agreed, but then, people tend not to plan or apply time management to their daily lives. They might do so in work, although quite a few people I know don't, but far less actually apply it to their daily lives. They don't prioritize their activities, often repeating older habits simply because they believe in it's usefulness.

    I held a workshop with a group of friends using some things I'd picked up over the years. We took all their hobbies and activities that they did for relaxation, and recorded the time spent on any activity during a month period. It could have been checking their phone for news, looking at videos, playing computer games, or playing football. We then, brainstormed the activities, asking questions of each other about why they were enjoyable.

    It turned out that for most of them, their activities were being done not because they enjoyed them now, but at some stage in the past, they did enjoy them. They hadn't found new activities to replace the older. We also found that they spent so much time on activities that they didn't actually enjoy. Or activities that actually made them tense, or angry rather than things that relaxed them.

    It's worth examining your life to determine if your current habits are useful...
    Yeah, I know a huge amount of men who go to Asia to work just to be able to sit down with a cup of coffee and watch the world go by without being judged.

    Eh, I really don't like this trend tbh and I feel like its quite recent in Ireland/Europe. Its like, why in the world would you boast how little sleep you get?

    I've been in Asia just over a decade, and the vast majority of men I know here say that they love it. I certainly do. A decade in China, and a few months in both Korea and Japan. Thinking of heading to Japan next for a few years before I return to Europe.

    The relative ease of the lifestyle and the ability to relax without any social condemnation/judgement. Oh, we all get stared at by the locals but other foreigners don't judge your lifestyle. I'm not expected to conform to a set idea of what a man should be. You're free to be who you want to be. TBH, I'm not sure I could return to a Irish/British life anymore. Dunno if it's different in mainland Europe, but reports by friends there say it's very different from Ireland/UK, with more freedom for men to be.. different. Maybe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Yup, I find it interesting that most men go abroad to escape the pressures of being a man. Of working hours, not seeing your child develop and various other issues.



    Hmmmm, I was thinking on what european country you could go to. I think France might be your best bet due to the fact that they seem a bit more relaxed towards gender norms, or Germany but then you would have to be 'German' rather than men or women :P Spain maybe as you would be noticeably foreign, or just Ireland if you are okay with being married.



    I'm not sure I'd recommend Eastern Europe tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    ...
    It turned out that for most of them, their activities were being done not because they enjoyed them now, but at some stage in the past, they did enjoy them. They hadn't found new activities to replace the older. We also found that they spent so much time on activities that they didn't actually enjoy.
    ...

    This; the classic thing I see happening is people being "amazed" by the fact I have a number of hobbies - including but not limited to building models, gaming, driving, restoring vintage computers/consoles and whatnot - wondering how I get "time" considering I work a full 40-hours week, plus commute etc.

    On the other hand, I am amazed at them claiming to have NO TIME when they basically have nothing but the 40-hours work week they need to go through.

    Then...it all explains itself when, say, lunchtime conversation at work comes up and I'm the only person who hasn't watched "The Irishman", simply because I can't fathom losing 3h 30' of my time just watching something, rather than doing something I enjoy.

    When I bring up the topic - why do you spend so much time watching TV series or random sh1t on Netflix/Amazon/Youtube whatever, the usual response is "well, what else would you do in the evening after work?". Yeah right...
    ...
    Or activities that actually made them tense, or angry rather than things that relaxed them.
    ...

    Precisely that; It's the reason why, for example, I tend to enjoy exclusively single-player games. I used to play online in the past, but the competitiveness , demands and "grind" of the whole environment put me off now.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yup, I find it interesting that most men go abroad to escape the pressures of being a man. Of working hours, not seeing your child develop and various other issues.

    Not really for me. I left because I was contemplating suicide because I was being boxed in by other peoples expectations of how I should live, but was incapable of living that way for an extended period. I also left because I found so few Irish women attractive, and didn't enjoy the drink/sports culture in Ireland at that time.

    As for the men I've met abroad, most seem to be avoiding the BS in Western culture that pushes them into tight boxes of behavior. Or they're bored with Western cultural habits and want something very different. Recently, I've met a lot of guys (mostly Americans) leaving due to the influence of feminism, and their fears of being hit with some kind of rape or assault charge. Dunno their habits or whether it's a viable thing for them, but I've heard many stories about their friends being done for one thing or another on College campuses, with the expectation of worse in the workplace.
    Hmmmm, I was thinking on what european country you could go to. I think France might be your best bet due to the fact that they seem a bit more relaxed towards gender norms, or Germany but then you would have to be 'German' rather than men or women :P Spain maybe as you would be noticeably foreign, or just Ireland if you are okay with being married.

    I'm not sure I'd recommend Eastern Europe tbh.

    I'm thinking Italy or the south of France, like Provence. Germany would be fine since I speak almost fluent German, although I'd need to refresh my accent, however, I'd wait until they sort out some of their social problems first.

    eastern Europe.. depends on where. Poland would be good, since I have friends there. I've spent time in Russia & Finland already and I'm generally comfortable with many of the Eastern European cultures.

    As for Ireland, too expensive for little gain. Anyway, each time I return to Ireland for an extended period, I get the sensation of being buried alive. Won't be returning to Ireland to live. I do love Ireland, but nah, there are simply too many negative associations for me to live there again.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    Precisely that; It's the reason why, for example, I tend to enjoy exclusively single-player games. I used to play online in the past, but the competitiveness , demands and "grind" of the whole environment put me off now.

    I've deleted most of my games. Only have Hearts of Iron 3 (black ice v3.3) on my computer now. Having over 3000 hours on the game makes me stop before playing it and consider whether I could be spending my time on something more productive or interesting... still love the game but it's a good reminder. :D


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