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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Options for a council owned shooting range.

Options
245

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Half-cocked wrote: »
    Most of those firearms are owned by farmers and are tools of the trade rather than sports equipment. The number of sporting shooters is much lower.

    What's that based on?

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Options
    #33
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Half-cocked wrote: »
    Most of those firearms are owned by farmers and are tools of the trade rather than sports equipment. The number of sporting shooters is much lower.

    Rubbish, most farmers i know have a crappy single or double barrel shotgun that would give a gunsmith nightmares, and half of them haven't a clue where the thing is half the time.


  • Options
    #34
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Stanford wrote: »
    Shooting is a minority sport, why should the taxpayer subsidise it with public funds?

    The taxpayer is already pumping millions into minority sports, it’s not because someone uses a legally held firearm in a particular minority sport that it should automatically exclude that sport from the public purse.


  • Options
    #35
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Half-cocked wrote: »
    The ICPSA hosted a Home International in the Phoenix Pk.

    (Ok, it was back in the 1930's. How times have changed)

    Did you ever notice the Phoenix park and the other parks in Ireland have this quaint by laws that prohibits target shooting, or the use, training or drilling with arms that go back 100 plus years?:eek:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Options
    #36
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Did you ever notice the Phoenix park and the other parks in Ireland have this quaint by laws that prohibits target shooting, or the use, training or drilling with arms that go back 100 plus years?:eek:

    Don't forget the Creedmoor cup shot at Dollymount strand in 1875. 40,000 spectators turned out to see the competition.

    https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/NZT18750827.2.24

    Another interesting fact is that Trulock and Harris gunmakers of Dawson street, had a range in Lansdowne road until late Victorian times. If you bought a gun from them, you could arrange to meet them there and try the gun there !


    51690_600x400.jpg


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  • Options
    #37
    Half-cocked
    Registered Users Posts: 4,319 ✭✭✭Half-cocked


    tudderone wrote: »
    Rubbish, most farmers i know have a crappy single or double barrel shotgun that would give a gunsmith nightmares, and half of them haven't a clue where the thing is half the time.

    Doesn't matter how crappy a gun is, it still had to be licensed. The point I was making was that the majority of firearms are owned by farmers and the sport shooting fraternity is a minority sport. Why do you say rubbish?


  • Options
    #38
    Half-cocked
    Registered Users Posts: 4,319 ✭✭✭Half-cocked


    garrettod wrote: »
    What's that based on?

    Total combined membership of all shooting organizations versus number of gun owners in the country, plus figures discussed with DoJ and Gardai at firearms consultative panel meetings.


  • Options
    #39
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Half-cocked wrote: »
    Most of those firearms are owned by farmers and are tools of the trade rather than sports equipment. The number of sporting shooters is much lower.

    Yep, that may be so but if you built a range you would increase sport participation.

    That's that the Brits did with the indoor track cycling. They were sh1te at that sport, had few participants and then invested heavily in facilities and now they are one of the best countries in the world for that sport. Hard to take part in a sport without the facilities.

    As Kevin Costner said, "If you build it, they will come".


  • Options
    #40
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Half-cocked wrote: »
    Doesn't matter how crappy a gun is, it still had to be licensed. The point I was making was that the majority of firearms are owned by farmers and the sport shooting fraternity is a minority sport. Why do you say rubbish?

    I doubt most guns are owned by farmers anymore. When i started shooting there were all sorts of restrictions on ownership. Now we can have allsorts, centrefire rifles, pistols, there are all kinds of sports to take part in now, there was nothing like the midlands rifle club when i started.

    Anyway most sports are minority sports, so what ?


  • Options
    #41
    JP22
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭JP22


    garrettod wrote: »
    Is it really?

    Over the years, I've seen reference to 200k - 250k licenced firearms in Ireland. If you said that it only amounted to 50,000 people, then it's hardly a minority sport, compared to many other sports that get state support of one form or another................. (

    We have all heard various numbers over the years.

    To determine the true extent of firearms ownership, we would need to know the actual number of individuals who hold licenses, of course some individuals hold several licenses, but it would be a start.

    A breakdown of numbers (shotguns, rifles, pistols/revolver (shorts) held) would be interesting.

    In the old days it was mainly farmers, game shooters, deer shooters and clay pigeon shooters. With licensed ranges now in operation, we can add target shooters and plinkers/hobby/recreational to the mix.


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  • Options
    #42
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Half-cocked wrote: »
    Total combined membership of all shooting organizations versus number of gun owners in the country, plus figures discussed with DoJ and Gardai at firearms consultative panel meetings.

    I'm gonna need to ask you to produce the numbers and source please - that still looks a bit too loose to rely on (no offence).

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Options
    #43
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    garrettod wrote: »
    I'm gonna need to ask you to produce the numbers and source please - that still looks a bit too loose to rely on (no offence).

    In fairness, it's not a wild assertion to make.

    It would be interesting to know how many people have a rifle for target shooting.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Options
    #44
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Feisar wrote: »
    In fairness, it's not a wild assertion to make...

    Hi,

    I'm not saying that it is, or it isn't... the problem is that I don't think any of us really know.

    There's been more speculation about this kind of stuff, then I've had hot dinners, so I don't think it's wrong to try and ensure that we work from facts, rather than hearsay etc. That's why I'm asking.

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Options
    #45
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    garrettod wrote: »
    Hi,

    I'm not saying that it is, or it isn't... the problem is that I don't think any of us really know.

    There's been more speculation about this kind of stuff, then I've had hot dinners, so I don't think it's wrong to try and ensure that we work from facts, rather than hearsay etc. That's why I'm asking.

    I get ya, it’d be interesting to know how many individuals have rifle licenses in the country.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Options
    #46
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    sprucemoose wrote: »
    not helpful, relevant or even funny tbh

    Actually they are correct , many of us would remember attempts to set up an indoor range in Dalkey in the 1980s or the attempts to set one up in Ticknock in the 2000s.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=50847639


  • Options
    #47
    badaj0z
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭badaj0z


    I have been involved in the attempted setting up of 7 ranges. I have also watched 4 more from a distance. Some have been successful, some have not. The one common factor of all the failures is how public the issue became. Some were kept quiet from the start. Some attempted PR in the locality from the start. All that became a public issue failed to go ahead. The other relevant factor is how many people live in the vicinity of the range. The higher the number, the less chance of success. As regards the title of this thread, the chance of a publicly owned shooting range is zero. The most positive thing we can all do is to at least help keep open the existing ranges by using and helping run them. The main threats to these, other than changes to the legislation, are noise and management issues. Included in the latter are operational issues and disagreements within the committees that run the club owned ones.


  • Options
    #48
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Actually they are correct , many of us would remember attempts to set up an indoor range in Dalkey in the 1980s or the attempts to set one up in Ticknock in the 2000s.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=50847639

    I remember that. Pity as it was an actual military range, and i do remember it being used back in the 80's by the free clothes association, god i am getting old. That was back before ticknock became a parade ground for fat oul lads on pushbikes.


  • Options
    #49
    jb88
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭jb88


    Stanford wrote: »
    ""The case for a public and regulated range is well founded""......evidence for this statement please?

    Just use the big G in your icons there and look up US Ranges.

    Hope that helps


  • Options
    #50
    badaj0z
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭badaj0z


    I should add that there have been 3 failed attempts, that I know of, to open ranges based on disused Army Ranges, viz., Ticknock, Kilpeddar and the Devils's Bit in Tipperary. When you look at the number of disused Ex Army ranges around the country, I am sure there must have been more that did not enter the media.


  • Options
    #51
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    badaj0z wrote: »
    I have been involved in the attempted setting up of 7 ranges. I have also watched 4 more from a distance. Some have been successful, some have not. The one common factor of all the failures is how public the issue became. Some were kept quiet from the start. Some attempted PR in the locality from the start. All that became a public issue failed to go ahead. The other relevant factor is how many people live in the vicinity of the range. The higher the number, the less chance of success. As regards the title of this thread, the chance of a publicly owned shooting range is zero. The most positive thing we can all do is to at least help keep open the existing ranges by using and helping run them. The main threats to these, other than changes to the legislation, are noise and management issues. Included in the latter are operational issues and disagreements within the committees that run the club owned ones.


    Question? What if a range was set up in a non-residential area,like an industrial area of a town where "noise and pollution" was part of life even on weekends?

    Was looking at some redeveloped industrial units down here in Limerick, where a range would be a possibility.Or even a 40foot self-contained range could be put in the container park?

    We keep thinking of ranges having to be out in the country...maybe reverse and think the cities and warehousing or industrial areas for a range?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Options
    #52
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Question? What if a range was set up in a non-residential area,like an industrial area of a town where "noise and pollution" was part of life even on weekends?

    Was looking at some redeveloped industrial units down here in Limerick, where a range would be a possibility.Or even a 40foot self-contained range could be put in the container park?

    We keep thinking of ranges having to be out in the country...maybe reverse and think the cities and warehousing or industrial areas for a range?

    I can't see there being too many objections to a properly constructed indoor range. The problem though is the cost of building it and then the cost of running it. I'm thinking particularly of the cost of installing and running an air quality control system.


  • Options
    #53
    badaj0z
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭badaj0z


    There are three indoor ranges that I know of, all 25 metres. One is in an industrial estate, the other is in the middle of a very large farm, miles from the nearest habitation. The third , was on a farm but has ceased to operate AFAIK.
    Noise and traffic are clearly not an issue. The main issues here are cost of construction or fitting out and safety. Safety costs money and the lead issue costs even more. A 50 or 100 metre range would be very expensive to build and /or fit out. I have no doubt that Planning permission and range safety approval could be obtained in some locations. However the attempt to set up the one in Dalkey was met with overwhelming resistance by the surrounding local people and the media and was dropped. The key question is whether enough revenue will accrue to justify the cost even if you could get approval.


  • Options
    #54
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Question? What if a range was set up in a non-residential area,like an industrial area of a town where "noise and pollution" was part of life even on weekends?

    Was looking at some redeveloped industrial units down here in Limerick, where a range would be a possibility.Or even a 40foot self-contained range could be put in the container park?

    We keep thinking of ranges having to be out in the country...maybe reverse and think the cities and warehousing or industrial areas for a range?

    Yup, there is a derelict warehouse/industrial unit not far from me. I know it will be knocked for apartments like everything else. But i was wondering if someone had the money, bought the place and converted to an indoor range, would it pass scrutiny ?


  • Options
    #55
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    badaj0z wrote: »
    I should add that there have been 3 failed attempts, that I know of, to open ranges based on disused Army Ranges, viz., Ticknock, Kilpeddar and the Devils's Bit in Tipperary. When you look at the number of disused Ex Army ranges around the country, I am sure there must have been more that did not enter the media.

    Ticknock was never going to fly, half of south dublin was bike riding, horse riding, walking etc on it 20 years ago, its busier then ever now. Its like O'connell street now the amount of people who use it. I remember that hatchet face blueshirt td, forget her name, who promised she would never allow it to open as a range again.


  • Options
    #56
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    tudderone wrote: »
    Yup, there is a derelict warehouse/industrial unit not far from me. I know it will be knocked for apartments like everything else. But i was wondering if someone had the money, bought the place and converted to an indoor range, would it pass scrutiny ?

    If you invested enough money into the design and construction, then absolutely, no reason why it wouldn't pass scrutiny. But as has already been mentioned, it might not be economically viable. Although if you are incredibly wealthy and don't mind losing money, that might not be a concern.

    Installing and running this craic is pretty expensive. https://www.airfilterusa.com/industries-served/shooting-range

    An auld fan doesn't cut it any more.


  • Options
    #57
    JP22
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭JP22


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Question? What if a range was set up in a non-residential area,like an industrial area of a town where "noise and pollution" was part of life even on weekends?

    Was looking at some redeveloped industrial units down here in Limerick, where a range would be a possibility.Or even a 40foot self-contained range could be put in the container park?

    We keep thinking of ranges having to be out in the country...maybe reverse and think the cities and warehousing or industrial areas for a range?

    All true Grizzly. We need more open air ranges and the existing ranges/clubs
    should be supoported.

    With the Irish climate :(, we definately need some indoor 50m range for the winter months.


  • Options
    #58
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    tudderone wrote: »
    . I remember that hatchet face blueshirt td, forget her name, who promised she would never allow it to open as a range again.

    In fairness all politicians do is sing to the gallery. But the problem is, why is it OK for a TD to demonize/blacklist a legitimate sport? A lot of PR needs to be done but I haven't a clue how to start!

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Options
    #59
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    If you invested enough money into the design and construction, then absolutely, no reason why it wouldn't pass scrutiny. But as has already been mentioned, it might not be economically viable. Although if you are incredibly wealthy and don't mind losing money, that might not be a concern.

    Installing and running this craic is pretty expensive. https://www.airfilterusa.com/industries-served/shooting-range

    An auld fan doesn't cut it any more.

    Right, if i score on the euromillions tonight, i'll build one :cool:


  • Options
    #60
    JP22
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭JP22


    tudderone wrote: »
    Right, if i score on the euromillions tonight, i'll build one :cool:

    Good man Tudderone, lots of us here will help you spend it. :D:D

    Seriousely though, as Grizzly said, there must be large (60/70m long) old unused block buildings out there away from populated areas that would be suitable for an indoor range.


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    #61
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    badaj0z wrote: »
    There are three indoor ranges that I know of, all 25 metres. One is in an industrial estate, the other is in the middle of a very large farm, miles from the nearest habitation. The third , was on a farm but has ceased to operate AFAIK.
    Noise and traffic are clearly not an issue. The main issues here are cost of construction or fitting out and safety. Safety costs money and the lead issue costs even more. A 50 or 100 metre range would be very expensive to build and /or fit out. I have no doubt that Planning permission and range safety approval could be obtained in some locations. However the attempt to set up the one in Dalkey was met with overwhelming resistance by the surrounding local people and the media and was dropped. The key question is whether enough revenue will accrue to justify the cost even if you could get approval.

    For students, staff and alumni only, but the TCD Rifle Club had a 25m indoor range right in the middle of the campus. They're in the process of building a new range, but I don't know the size or location; haven't been a member for years! If it's on TCD land, possibly Islandbridge or Santry? I'm sure someone here knows...


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