Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

"Poison was the cure" - small Alzheimer's study with remarkable outcome

  • 03-05-2021 9:35pm
    #1
    1cxb0tkuav6p4l
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭


    https://neurosciencenews.com/radiation-treatment-alzheimers-18334/

    Low dose radiation to the dome;

    Quantity about similar to a CT scan.

    Within 1 day improvements in memory, behaviour and cognitive function.

    Study size: n = 4.

    .....

    I don't think it's going to revolutionize Alzheimer's treatment but some improvement is encouraging.


Comments

  • #2
    markmoto
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Haylee Tinkling Dachshund wrote: »
    https://neurosciencenews.com/radiation-treatment-alzheimers-18334/

    Low dose radiation to the dome;

    Quantity about similar to a CT scan.

    Within 1 day improvements in memory, behaviour and cognitive function.

    Study size: n = 4.

    .....

    I don't think it's going to revolutionize Alzheimer's treatment but some improvement is encouraging.


    Alzheimer’s is linked to diabetes. And being proposed diabetes type 3.

    And these studies below confirm that it could be cured by simply changing your diet without any poison, radiation, and the like.


    Study showed cognitive function improvement in 9 out of 10 patients who completed the study and achieved ketosis [81]. Moreover, in another study called the Ketogenic Diet Retention and Feasibility Trial, MCT-supplemented KD was provided to 15 AD patients (~70% of energy as fat)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6720297/


    24-week study to determine the effects of a low-carbohydrate diet on people with diabetes and obesity.
    https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-5-36


    ketogenic diet can lead to more significant improvements in blood sugar control, A1c, weight loss, and discontinued insulin requirements than other diets.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn2013116?utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=3_nsn6445_deeplink_PID100090071&utm_content=deeplink


    ketogenic diet outperformed a conventional, low-fat diabetes diet over 32 weeks regarding weight loss and A1c.
    https://www.jmir.org/2017/2/e36/


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The fact you are suggesting Alzheimer's can be "cured" means you know very little about the pathophysiology of of Alzheimer's disease/dementia.


  • #4
    markmoto
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The fact you are suggesting Alzheimer's can be "cured" means you know very little about the pathophysiology of of Alzheimer's disease/dementia.


    I agree cured was the wrong word rather reverse/improve


  • #5
    1cxb0tkuav6p4l
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭1cxb0tkuav6p4l


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The fact you are suggesting Alzheimer's can be "cured" means you know very little about the pathophysiology of of Alzheimer's disease/dementia.

    Okay, let's have an "alzheimer's"-off, see who thinks they know more about the condition.

    It's neural degeneration homie.

    Maintaining nerve/neural integrity is the secret to healthy mind and nervous system.

    Now throw some "amyloid/protein-misfolding/plaque-formation" rhetoric at me.


  • #6
    markmoto
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Haylee Tinkling Dachshund wrote: »
    Okay, let's have an "alzheimer's"-off, see who thinks they know more about the condition.

    It's neural degeneration homie.

    Maintaining nerve/neural integrity is the secret to healthy mind and nervous system.


    synapses, are damaged to the point where they can’t use glucose fuel efficiently anymore. the second post explains what to do next.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    1cxb0tkuav6p4l
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭1cxb0tkuav6p4l


    markmoto wrote: »
    Alzheimer’s is linked to diabetes. And being proposed diabetes type 3.

    And these studies below confirm that it could be reverse/improved by simply changing your diet without any poison, radiation, and the like.


    Study showed cognitive function improvement in 9 out of 10 patients who completed the study and achieved ketosis [81]. Moreover, in another study called the Ketogenic Diet Retention and Feasibility Trial, MCT-supplemented KD was provided to 15 AD patients (~70% of energy as fat)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6720297/


    24-week study to determine the effects of a low-carbohydrate diet on people with diabetes and obesity.
    https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-5-36


    ketogenic diet can lead to more significant improvements in blood sugar control, A1c, weight loss, and discontinued insulin requirements than other diets.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn2013116?utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=3_nsn6445_deeplink_PID100090071&utm_content=deeplink


    ketogenic diet outperformed a conventional, low-fat diabetes diet over 32 weeks regarding weight loss and A1c.
    https://www.jmir.org/2017/2/e36/

    Diabetes to alzheimers link is interesting but....

    La2110K.png?1


  • #8
    markmoto
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Haylee Tinkling Dachshund wrote: »
    Diabetes to alzheimers link is interesting but....

    La2110K.png?1


    Medicine evolving hence some books are outdated at this stage.


    since synapses are damaged, ketones are the fuel of choice with prolong fasting.


  • #9
    1cxb0tkuav6p4l
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭1cxb0tkuav6p4l


    markmoto wrote: »
    Medicine evolving hence some books are outdated at this stage.


    since synapses are damaged, ketones are the fuel of choice with prolong fasting.

    It's definitely an interesting point, cheers for bringing it up.

    MZWtc3f.png?1
    (these quote are taken from wiki BTW).

    Amyloid plaque formation seem to be related to cellular degeneration in both instances.

    This "diabetes type 3" is related more so to type 2 diabetes (adulthood acquired, bad diet/shape) vs type 1 (autoimmune, childhood acquired).

    ......

    I'll have to get back to this later.


  • #10
    1cxb0tkuav6p4l
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭1cxb0tkuav6p4l


    The contended basis in this context of diabetes type 2 and alzheimers is therefore - amyloid plaques.

    Which have a basis in proteopathy.

    i.e. structurally abnormal proteins.

    In diabetes it appear relative to pancreatic beta cells, thus insulin/glucagon dysfunction.

    In alzheimers, obviously neurons. Accumulation of amyloid plaques via miscleaving (cutting) and subsequent misfoldeing of Amyloid Beta Precursor Protein, APP - a transmembrane polypeptide essentially destroy the neurons from the inside out.

    Cleaved by two secretases:
    - "beta secretase or "β-amyloid cleaving enzyme (BACE) outside the membrane, and second, by
    - gamma secretase (γ-secretase)"

    ......when done so under normal conditions seems consistent with the general course of healthy events.

    However, when the peptide is cleaved (cut) poorly or miscleaved = misfolding = plaques = cellular interference/dysfunction, degeneration..... =

    - diabetes via beta mast cell degeneration in the pancreas

    - alzheimers via degeneration of neurons.

    Beta-secretase 1 (cuts the amyloid beta peptide, cleaves it, aka "protease") = coded by gene, BACE1.

    Gamma secretase (cuts the amyloid beta peptide, cleaves it, aka "protease") = comprised of 4 other individual proteins - one of which, "Presenilin" is reponsible for its catalytic activity (breaking other proteins down into smaller subunits).

    Presenilin coded by its namesake gene; when mutations come about it in this gene (thus the protein is coded for and expressed incorrectly) = the faulty cleavage (cutting) of Amyloid beta occurs = plaque formation = cell degeneration.
    gamma secretase complex is unusual among proteases in having a "sloppy" cleavage site at the C-terminal site in amyloid beta generation; gamma secretase can cleave APP in any of multiple sites to generate a peptide of variable length, most typically from 39 to 42 amino acids long, with Aβ40 the most common isoform and Aβ42 the most susceptible to conformational changes leading to amyloid fibrillogenesis.
    Certain mutations in both APP (Amyloid-beta precursor protein) (the transmembrane spanning protein that produces the potential misfolded protein in question) and in both types of human presenilin are associated with increased Aβ42 production and the early-onset genetic form of familial Alzheimer's disease

    APP coded for its namesake APP gene.

    ......

    To recap:

    - Gene mutation and thus faultily expressed Amyloid precursor protein, and the cutting protease "Presenilin" = most probable cause for Amyloid plaques.

    - i.e. most probably cause for cellular degeneration of beta mast pancreatic cells in Diabetes type 2, and
    - neurons in Alzheimers.


  • #11
    1cxb0tkuav6p4l
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭1cxb0tkuav6p4l


    I think the idea behind "ketosis" is, it circumvents insulin resistance, thus compensates as a cellular fuel source, potentially alleviating symptoms of diabetes and improving symptoms in Alzheimers.

    Certainly interesting and another weapon in the artillery bag against Alzheimers.

    But given the identified pathology of alzheimers, it may be hasty to assume it's basically a product of diabetes type 2 (i.e. alzheimers = diabetes type 3), or that ketosis itself will address the issue of gene mutation, compromised protease factors and associated APP mis-cleaving which results in alzheimers.

    ......

    At least that's what the comprehensive information points to; I'm open to suggestion/correction of course.

    Additionally kind of serendipitous I guess that both conditions pathology is primarily associated with amyloid plaque formation (protein misfolding) relative to their respective physiological regions (neurons/beta-mast-cells, brain/pancreas), and they both appear responsive to ketosis (ketones as fuel source, compensating for reduced cell activity due to inadequate fuel process).

    In alzheimers, interventions to boost choline activity seems to reduce the impact of symptoms (i.e. somewhat mitigate the degenerative process).

    Ketosis would appear to have a similar function, simply work around the neural degeneration.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    1cxb0tkuav6p4l
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭1cxb0tkuav6p4l


    Seems as I'm on a bender I may as well keep going.

    Diabetes type 2: primarily caused by poor lifestyle and diet.

    .....

    Aw hell, let me skip the essay; I personally contend improved cognitive function (neural integrity in Alz., cellular energy process in diabetes 2) is the true long term remedy to both conditions.


  • #13
    markmoto
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Haylee Tinkling Dachshund wrote: »

    But given the identified pathology of alzheimers, it may be hasty to assume it's basically a product of diabetes type 2 (i.e. alzheimers = diabetes type 3), or that ketosis itself will address the issue of gene mutation, compromised protease factors and associated APP mis-cleaving which results in alzheimers.




    Gene mutation evolved to cope with modern high-sugar diets
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190604084857.htm


  • #14
    1cxb0tkuav6p4l
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭1cxb0tkuav6p4l


    markmoto wrote: »
    Gene mutation evolved to cope with modern high-sugar diets
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190604084857.htm

    lol, kind of reaching there chief.

    That study whilst interesting, is completely inconclusive;

    Also a variation in a mediator of endocytosis (clathrin CHC22) which may or may not impact blood sugar, seemingly some kind of an ancient to modern allele, still bears no apparent direct relevance to the genes coding for the protease enzymes in question in APP related misfolding.

    I assume the insinuation is, adaptation of gene expression, but again its so inconclusive it's seriously reaching attempting to consolidate that as a valid theory relative to insulin resistance and alzheimers.

    ......

    Interesting, but probability is stacked more so toward late life alteration in gene expression for reasons beyond, or much deeper, than diet and lifestyle (in fact I personally contend diet and lifestyle are a PRODUCT of these "much deeper" reasons).

    Neural electrical integrity and resultant integrity of intra neural cascades, resultant implication on the cell nucleas and associated subsequent process (gene expression, mutation, variation) just feels more likely.

    Thus - alzheimers patients doing puzzles, crosswords etc., maintaining their cognitive integrity is apparently a more effective intervention.

    .....

    Now obviously stats demonstrate that Diabetes type 2 can effectively potentiate the probability of alzheimers due to implicated neural integrity.

    But again looking at reasons for development of diabetes type 2 in the first place....

    Diet and lifestyle, "stuffing ones emotions" etc.; this is a cognitive issue.

    It only makes sense to me that the same poor cognitive state (i.e. poor nervous system electrical integrity) - the source of the two evils (alzheimers/diabetes type 2) is the same.

    Like choline enhancement, ketosis may offer relief, but unlikely to be a cause.


Advertisement