Wifi mesh systems

Eric Cartman · 07-05-2020 10:48am

Lurching wrote: »

Hi folks,
Much like a number of folks on this thread, I also am struggling with wifi range extenders at the moment and have been thinking of changing to a mesh system for a few weeks (largish house with a lot of stone walls and concrete floors).

While the comparison of different models has been discussed in length already, my question relates to my garden.
Is there a system that's compatible with an externally mounted device? I'd like to be able to extend the network as far in to the garden as possible.

So ultimately, I'd like to replace my crappy range extenders with a mesh system with an added outdoor node, if such a thing exists.

Any advice?

I would exclude the garden from the mesh. If theres any way for you to get a cat.6 cable from the outside to the router you can use an outdoor CPE https://www.tp-link.com/us/business-networking/outdoor-radio/cpe210/ for the garden and use a mesh system indoors. Also for added security I would use a firewall or if your router supports it and put the outdoor wifi in a DMZ to keep it off your home lan.

Shefwedfan · 07-05-2020 10:51am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I would exclude the garden from the mesh. If theres any way for you to get a cat.6 cable from the outside to the router you can use an outdoor CPE https://www.tp-link.com/us/business-networking/outdoor-radio/cpe210/ for the garden and use a mesh system indoors. Also for added security I would use a firewall or if your router supports it and put the outdoor wifi in a DMZ to keep it off your home lan.

With my mesh and because the garden wraps around the house so to speak I end up with more or less decent coverage around the house.

It could be better and that is why moving to the TP-Link system I will have one unit out in sun room which will cover nearly 90% of the back garden....

Thats why I asked abotu size, the jump in performance of the mesh might actually cover the garden itself

Ush1 · 07-05-2020 10:53am

I ordered a Nest Wifi router from Eglobalcentral.eu on May 1st and still in processing stage, anyone any experience with them and how long they take to dispatch?

Lurching · 07-05-2020 10:53am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I would exclude the garden from the mesh. If theres any way for you to get a cat.6 cable from the outside to the router you can use an outdoor CPE https://www.tp-link.com/us/business-networking/outdoor-radio/cpe210/ for the garden and use a mesh system indoors. Also for added security I would use a firewall or if your router supports it and put the outdoor wifi in a DMZ to keep it off your home lan.

Understood.
I have plans to get a LAN cable out to the shed (at the far end of the garden) as I'll be running a new power cable out anyway. I guess mounting something like the one you have linked would do the trick then.

The 60m power over ethernet may be a limitation as I need to take a fairly indirect route, but I'm sure there are other models available.

These mention a transmission range of up to 5km, but how does that translate to wifi coverage?

Leroy42 · 07-05-2020 10:54am

All this talk of M9 has got me worried. I just placed an order for the M5 version. Should I have stepped up to the M9 instead? (partly I went with M5 because as said able the M9 didn't ship to Ireland in Amazon)

Lurching · 07-05-2020 10:56am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Thats why I asked abotu size, the jump in performance of the mesh might actually cover the garden itself

Potentially, but going by the range extenders I currently have, they barely make it to the far end of the deck, let alone the rest of the garden.
It's not an enormous garden by any means, but the solid walls in my house and the triple glazing tends to stifle the signal significantly.

Eric Cartman · 07-05-2020 11:00am

Lurching wrote: »

Understood.
I have plans to get a LAN cable out to the shed (at the far end of the garden) as I'll be running a new power cable out anyway. I guess mounting something like the one you have linked would do the trick then.

The 60m power over ethernet may be a limitation as I need to take a fairly indirect route, but I'm sure there are other models available.

These mention a transmission range of up to 5km, but how does that translate to wifi coverage?

5km is line of sight point to point with another one on the other end to transmit back, in reality you'll have 50 meters of great wifi coverage with no obstacles. If you're running power to the shed, put a small PoE switch in there and then mount the ape to a pole outside the shed, then the cable back to the house can be up to 100 meters. also leaves you spare ports for a camera or a backup NAS which is handy to keep backups out of the main house.

GinSoaked · 07-05-2020 11:18am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

5km is line of sight point to point with another one on the other end to transmit back, in reality you'll have 50 meters of great wifi coverage with no obstacles. If you're running power to the shed, put a small PoE switch in there and then mount the ape to a pole outside the shed, then the cable back to the house can be up to 100 meters. also leaves you spare ports for a camera or a backup NAS which is handy to keep backups out of the main house.

I was going to recommend the Ubiquiti equivalent which I suspect has the same components inside and I get well over 200m outside with it as an AP and the 200m is with a good bit of vegetation in the way. For best range mount in a garden mounting up high helps a good bit.

Those units won't run off a PoE swtich without an adapter as they are passive 24V.

UBIQUITI Networks LOCOM2 2.4 Ghz 8 dBi M2 NanoStation airMAX Outdoor Wi-Fi Access Point Router . Just be aware that device needs a few settings changed from the default to work as an AP. I have an acre of garden with good 2.4GHz Wifi coverage with the above. Data sheet https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/nanostationm/nsm_ds_web.pdf Router ignore the AirMax stuff thats for point to point and needs switching off when used as an Access Point.

Eric Cartman · 07-05-2020 11:30am

GinSoaked wrote: »

I was going to recommend the Ubiquiti equivalent which I suspect has the same components inside and I get well over 200m outside with it as an AP and the 200m is with a good bit of vegetation in the way. For best range mount in a garden mounting up high helps a good bit.

Those units won't run off a PoE swtich without an adapter as they are passive 24V.

UBIQUITI Networks LOCOM2 2.4 Ghz 8 dBi M2 NanoStation airMAX Outdoor Wi-Fi Access Point Router . Just be aware that device needs a few settings changed from the default to work as an AP. I have an acre of garden with good 2.4GHz Wifi coverage with the above. Data sheet https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/nanostationm/nsm_ds_web.pdf Router ignore the AirMax stuff thats for point to point and needs switching off when used as an Access Point.

the unifi gear I find is great if all your equipment is unifi, but if its only one piece and the PoE non compliance, the tp link is a better bet as it has its own web console for config without the cloud key or controller software on a pc.

GinSoaked · 07-05-2020 12:13pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the unifi gear I find is great if all your equipment is unifi, but if its only one piece and the PoE non compliance, the tp link is a better bet as it has its own web console for config without the cloud key or controller software on a pc.

Similar console on the NanoStation - so similar it makes you wonder? If you had used one you certainly wouldn't have to go looking to find features if you had to configure the other. I don't think the NanoStations are unifi one of the few Ubiquiti devices that isn't. Anyway no sign of it on the NanoStation I'm connected to atm. Also both are only 24V Passive PoE. Even some of the issues I have had with the NanoStations also occur on the TP-Link CPE210's.

Both companies also do a couple of other near identical devices that are specifically outdoor AP's.

Shefwedfan · 07-05-2020 12:55pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

All this talk of M9 has got me worried. I just placed an order for the M5 version. Should I have stepped up to the M9 instead? (partly I went with M5 because as said able the M9 didn't ship to Ireland in Amazon)

P9....not the M9

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07XSBGP7G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

bk · 07-05-2020 1:07pm

First off, let me second the suggestion that the nvidia Shield TV is AMAZING and I'd replace a Chromecast Ultra with it in a heartbeat.

Marlow, it might take a little convincing to get the missus to accept using it, but it would be well worth it. It is by FAR the fastest streaming box out there, very fast and smooth, would be much better then the Samsung.

Having said that I've just got a shiny new LG smart TV, and pretty much all the streaming services work out of the box on it. Greatly simplifies things and family all very happy with it being easier to use.

Fire TV 4k/Chromecast/Now TV stick all now decommissioned, though I'll continue to use the Shield TV.

2011 wrote: »

The house was prewired in CAT5E, so I just punched down RJ45's where it made sense. I know the cable is a bit dated, but it was there and I wasn't going to tear the house apart to upgrade.

Yep, same here, my place came pre-wired with cat5e and I'm very happy it did.

Still very good, 1Gig is still plenty for a home network and the affordable network gear is still all Gigabit Ethernet. Sure some wifi might advertise speeds in excess of 1gig, but reall world results are very different and still doesn't come close to the reliability.

Obviously for anyone looking to do a new build/refurb and put in Ethernet, I'd recommend newer standard ethernet cable for future proofing, even if you are only using gigabit switches now.

2011 wrote: »

Good point, perhaps I should have gone for 2 WiFi routers instead as only these can connect to Ethernet.

If you could get ethernet too it, I definitely would have.

2011 wrote: »

Yes I understand that I am paying a bit more but I don't think I am paying a lot more (I am open to correction) from what I have seen posted so far when you consider that I only need 2.
A nice little extra is that the WiFi point also has built in Google Assistant.

Well as an example the Tenda Nova MW6-3, has 3 units and is currently £150, but I've seen it for £130. Very well reviewed system, top ten on small net builder.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the Google will work well and hopefully it sorts your issues with the Nest smoke detectors.

2011 wrote: »

I'm prepared to pay extra to have the ability to block individual devices and set up schedules for these devices with such a user friendly interface. They also have a number of other nice features available through the app.

Yes, they all do that these days. For instance the above Tenda system, you can create groups of devices (e.g. like your kids devices), pause their access from the app, set schedules for when they work, etc.

BTW Just pointing these out for anyone else who might be interested in different systems and the different options.

Oh, given that we are on the Home Automation forum, one important item to check is how many simultaneous connections it supports. Some devices can have hard limits, like 32 devices per band on my router which can be limiting for a home automation enthusiast with multiple wifi smart devices. I think Google Wifi is good in this regard with a very high limit.

Eric Cartman · 07-05-2020 1:24pm

GinSoaked wrote: »

I was going to recommend the Ubiquiti equivalent which I suspect has the same components inside and I get well over 200m outside with it as an AP and the 200m is with a good bit of vegetation in the way. For best range mount in a garden mounting up high helps a good bit.

Those units won't run off a PoE swtich without an adapter as they are passive 24V.

UBIQUITI Networks LOCOM2 2.4 Ghz 8 dBi M2 NanoStation airMAX Outdoor Wi-Fi Access Point Router . Just be aware that device needs a few settings changed from the default to work as an AP. I have an acre of garden with good 2.4GHz Wifi coverage with the above. Data sheet https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/nanostationm/nsm_ds_web.pdf Router ignore the AirMax stuff thats for point to point and needs switching off when used as an Access Point.

Hmm, id say they are the same with different plastic and firmware so.

The Bishop Basher · 07-05-2020 4:30pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

All this talk of M9 has got me worried. I just placed an order for the M5 version. Should I have stepped up to the M9 instead? (partly I went with M5 because as said able the M9 didn't ship to Ireland in Amazon)

I've been having a similar dilemma only i've bought both and cancelled them at some point. I even bought the Nest this morning and cancelled it.

Anyway I've now bought the P9 based on this thread and i'm going to stick with it for the powerlink. It's shipped as well so couldn't cancel it now anyway.

I found this page handy for a quick reference to compare specs on the TP Link range. You might find it useful and it may help you figure out whether the extra spend is worth it or not.

https://www.tp-link.com/uk/support/faq/2423/

SleetAndSnow · 07-05-2020 4:42pm

Trying to get virgin support to enable modem mode is an ordeal. Keeps saying they cant support me and that its not available in ireland and stuff. Any other option besides just modem mode? TIA

bk · 07-05-2020 4:53pm

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Trying to get virgin support to enable modem mode is an ordeal. Keeps saying they cant support me and that its not available in ireland and stuff. Any other option besides just modem mode? TIA

Which Virgin Meida router do you have? On the new one they sent me recently, the SuperHub 3 I think, it is just an option you click in the routers web admin interface. No need to call support.

SleetAndSnow · 07-05-2020 4:57pm

bk wrote: »

Which Virgin Meida router do you have? On the new one they sent me recently, the SuperHub 3 I think, it is just an option you click in the routers web admin interface. No need to call support.

The white hub 3.0

No option there for me! He eventually gave me an email to contact to "set it up" so thats gonna take a few days I think! Oh well.

SleetAndSnow · 07-05-2020 5:12pm

Alright, what seems to have worked is just disabling the wifi on the box and connecting the new one into the hub 3.0 and its working! Hopefully it lasts

bk · 07-05-2020 5:20pm

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

The white hub 3.0 No option there for me! He eventually gave me an email to contact to "set it up" so thats gonna take a few days I think! Oh well.

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Alright, what seems to have worked is just disabling the wifi on the box and connecting the new one into the hub 3.0 and its working! Hopefully it lasts

That is weird, I've the same! I guess it most have been there for me as I was also using bridge/modem-only mode on my old outer. so was already setup with IPv4. I guess it detected that and made the option available to me.

While turning off the wifi can work, it would still be better to put it into bridge mode as it avoids issues with Double Nat.

shaveAbullock · 07-05-2020 5:20pm

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Alright, what seems to have worked is just disabling the wifi on the box and connecting the new one into the hub 3.0 and its working! Hopefully it lasts

Double NAT?

Dav010 · 07-05-2020 5:27pm

Not sure if someone has already recommended this, I have Netgear Orbi with 2 satalites. I have Eir fibre with 150mb speed, no drop in speed nor signal in a 6k2ft house with a lot of devices (skyq/PlayStation/laptops/phones/multiple Sonos etc) on at same time. I’ve had Orbi for 3 years, no problems at all.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NETGEAR-Protection-Satellite-Extenders-Eliminate/dp/B07T4CJBDG/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=orbi+netgear&qid=1588868853&sprefix=orbi+&sr=8-4

SleetAndSnow · 07-05-2020 5:40pm

bk wrote: »

That is weird, I've the same! I guess it most have been there for me as I was also using bridge/modem-only mode on my old outer. so was already setup with IPv4. I guess it detected that and made the option available to me.

While turning off the wifi can work, it would still be better to put it into bridge mode as it avoids issues with Double Nat.

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Double NAT?

Ah thanks a mill yeah. Still going to email them alright about enabling bridge mode on my router but for now this should do fine and will help with the dropouts until they eventually do it!

Ihaveanopinion · 07-05-2020 5:44pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

All this talk of M9 has got me worried. I just placed an order for the M5 version. Should I have stepped up to the M9 instead? (partly I went with M5 because as said able the M9 didn't ship to Ireland in Amazon)

I got the M9 from komplett.ie - delivered in 4 days just last week. Works a treat, easy set up - I set it up as an access point and then just got rid of the eir router altogether. Only a few minor things to be altered in setup

Shefwedfan · 07-05-2020 5:47pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Not sure if someone has already recommended this, I have Netgear Orbi with 2 satalites. I have Eir fibre with 150mb speed, no drop in speed nor signal in a 6k2ft house with a lot of devices (skyq/PlayStation/laptops/phones/multiple Sonos etc) on at same time. I’ve had Orbi for 3 years, no problems at all.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NETGEAR-Protection-Satellite-Extenders-Eliminate/dp/B07T4CJBDG/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=orbi+netgear&qid=1588868853&sprefix=orbi+&sr=8-4

They are a great job but I didnt like you had to have a main unit and then two expansions. So the main unit had to sit in centre of house and two unit either side so to speak

Dav010 · 07-05-2020 6:20pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They are a great job but I didnt like you had to have a main unit and then two expansions. So the main unit had to sit in centre of house and two unit either side so to speak

I’m not a techy by any means, but they daisy chain so one satellite relays off the other so the one furthest away doesn’t connect directly of main unit, I hope I’ve said that correctly.

https://kb.netgear.com/000048458/What-is-daisy-chain-and-how-does-it-work-with-my-Orbi-WiFi-System

Shefwedfan · 07-05-2020 6:26pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m not a techy by any means, but they daisy chain so one satellite relays off the other so the one furthest away doesn’t connect directly of main unit, I hope I’ve said that correctly.

https://kb.netgear.com/000048458/What-is-daisy-chain-and-how-does-it-work-with-my-Orbi-WiFi-System

OK the Orbi I looked at would not support daisy chain, it wanted a star setup

Dav010 · 07-05-2020 6:32pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

OK the Orbi I looked at would not support daisy chain, it wanted a star setup

Because router is at one end of house, I needed a system that would relay Wi-Fi throughout house without loss of signal if I wasn’t to go insane with teenagers complaints. I know someone is is big into this stuff and this is the mesh he recommended and to be fair, it’s brilliant.

07-05-2020 7:55pm

bk wrote: »

Oh, given that we are on the Home Automation forum, one important item to check is how many simultaneous connections it supports. Some devices can have hard limits, like 32 devices per band on my router which can be limiting for a home automation enthusiast with multiple wifi smart devices. I think Google Wifi is good in this regard with a very high limit.

Yes, it has plenty for my needs. 100 devices can be connected to the wifi router + another 100 devices can be connected to the wifi point.

skodacb · 08-05-2020 1:29am

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Trying to get virgin support to enable modem mode is an ordeal. Keeps saying they cant support me and that its not available in ireland and stuff. Any other option besides just modem mode? TIA

Really surprised by that. I have the exact same Hub 3.0 and contacted them via a Twitter DM and they changed it from IPV6 to IPV4 within 30 minutes today so I could set up my Nest properly. The Hub is now just a modem.

SleetAndSnow · 08-05-2020 10:57am

skodacb wrote: »

Really surprised by that. I have the exact same Hub 3.0 and contacted them via a Twitter DM and they changed it from IPV6 to IPV4 within 30 minutes today so I could set up my Nest properly. The Hub is now just a modem.

Think I'm gonna do that then because their live chat was useless! Thank you!

Wifi mesh systems

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