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"Beware of Mr Baker" film/documentary

  • 20-05-2013 10:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Rigsby


    Went to see it this evening (Lighthouse Cinema- Smithfield). I always knew he (Ginger Baker) was a bad tempered individual... did not realise just how bad. :pac:


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Sugarlumps


    He's a miserable fecker, rarely has a good word to say about anyone. I never rated him all that much, was the film any good?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Rigsby


    Sugarlumps wrote: »
    He's a miserable fecker, rarely has a good word to say about anyone. I never rated him all that much, was the film any good?

    I agree with all you say, except that you never rated him. He was/is an iconic drummer who is to drums, what James Jamerson was to bass. In the film he plays duets with some of the giants of jazz drummers like Elvin Jones and is easily able to hold his own. Yes, I thought the film was very good and informative, though sad. My knowledge of Baker the man, was very sketchy before I saw the film. When his own son says that it would have been better for everyone if he (Baker) had never had children, it speaks volumes about the personality of the man. :rolleyes:

    Here is a snippet of the trailer for the film. At the end of this trailer, the film maker is leaving Baker's ranch having completed the interview, and Mr Baker bids him farewell by clobbering him. :D


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqrigN8jxj8


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Sugarlumps


    I haven't seen the duets, so my comments are ill informed in that regard. I never took a fancy to his playing in Cream, not overly keen on solo's and Toad didn't wow me. Neither do I like his actual drum sound.

    I read an interview with him not so long ago in a drumming magazine, comes across as a bitter and twisted man. Kinda like the father figure in Steptoe and Son. Still can't wait to view this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Not a big fan of drum solos. But I love his playing in cream.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Rigsby


    Sugarlumps wrote: »
    I haven't seen the duets, so my comments are ill informed in that regard. I never took a fancy to his playing in Cream, not overly keen on solo's and Toad didn't wow me. Neither do I like his actual drum sound.

    I read an interview with him not so long ago in a drumming magazine, comes across as a bitter and twisted man. Kinda like the father figure in Steptoe and Son. Still can't wait to view this.


    Granted his playing and sound was not for everyone, but this does not take away from his amazing talent. I was never a fan of drum solos either, but back in "Cream's" hay day, they were popular, especially in live shows.

    Funny you should mention "Steptoe and Son" and this crossed my mind once or twice while watching the film. :D


    BTW, I am not sure if the film is still on in the Lighthouse cinema.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,907 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Saw this last night..Appropriate it was Stewart Copeland discussing drummers lack of royalties, Sting took all royalties from the police, he described the take as "lyricist takes half then the rest is split with music writer..."

    I saw an interview with andy summers and he said he had to ask Sting for a cut of "every breath you take" because of the extra revenue brought in by P Diddy considering it was only "his" riff they used!

    You would think Baker would be considered a writer due to the impact he made on the songs from the demos to the finish...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Rigsby



    You would think Baker would be considered a writer due to the impact he made on the songs from the demos to the finish...

    Yes, perhaps he should have got more credit, both in words and money. However it could be argued that without an actual song, there would be nothing to make an impact on.

    Also, he seems to blame Clapton, Bruce and Brown (and everyone else, for that matter :pac:) for the bankrupt situation that he now finds himself in. This begs the question, even if he did get the same amount as the others, would he have still blown it and found himself in exactly the same situation ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,907 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Rigsby wrote: »
    Yes, perhaps he should have got more credit, both in words and money. However it could be argued that without an actual song, there would be nothing to make an impact on.

    Also, he seems to blame Clapton, Bruce and Brown (and everyone else, for that matter :pac:) for the bankrupt situation that he now finds himself in. This begs the question, even if he did get the same amount as the others, would he have still blown it and found himself in exactly the same situation ?

    he would have bought more horse and horses, that is beyond any doubt!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Rigsby


    he would have bought more horse and horses, that is beyond any doubt!

    Yep ! that would be my guess also ! :D


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ Ari Important Wimp


    Watching this atm and by Christ but Ginger may very well be the definition of a walking talking Cnut. He's like something out of Dickens, you can easily imagine him beating up a few orphans before sending them out to pillage the pockets of unsuspecting people. It's been a long time since I've seem a doc about a famous musician where not a single contributor has a nice thing to say about the man in question. They all respect his technical abilities but no one has anything positive or nice to day about him as a man.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,166 ✭✭✭Stereomaniac


    Sounds like a more gentle version of Hated, the documentary about The Murder Junkies. I wasn't even aware that this film had been made, but the trailer that someone linked earlier in the thread has really enticed/disturbed me, especially where he says he is going to put the filmmaker in hospital. If he was able to write songs, he would have just written some more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,907 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    I suspect that he's not as bad as the movie made out. I suspect he knew or was convinced that his worst traits made great tv and money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Rigsby


    I suspect that he's not as bad as the movie made out. I suspect he knew or was convinced that his worst traits made great tv and money.

    There is possibly some truth in this. However I remember, years ago, hearing or reading about some of the incidents mentioned in the film. One that comes to mind is when Baker went at Bruce with a knife, over some musical disagreement. Bruce himself mentions this in his authorised biography "Jack Bruce :Composing Himself" and says he genuinely feared for his life. So, it's debatable as to whether or not Baker was hamming it up for the camera. My own hunch......he wasn't.


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ Ari Important Wimp


    I suspect that he's not as bad as the movie made out. I suspect he knew or was convinced that his worst traits made great tv and money.

    With most others you'd assume a lot of it was pandering to the camera but with Baker it's more that this is the real him. No one has a nice thing to say about him, he's few friends and is generally thought of as a mean bully.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭furiousox


    It's a pity they only very briefly mentioned the PIL album he did (1985?)
    Ginger Baker, Lydon and Steve Vai on guitar!
    It's a great album, would have loved to have seen some studio footage from that era.

    CPL 593H



  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Big Cheese


    Miserable git. Watched on Netflix...good doc tho


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,439 ✭✭✭✭briany


    "John Bonham couldn't swing a bag of s**t."

    -Ginger Baker

    You kind of feel that his unrelenting cynicism and ornery nature started off as a dark sense of humour and became what is was as life went on. Like, there's a couple of moments in the film and other interviews I've seen where that facade looks like it's cracking or slipping for a moment, so maybe there is a person under there. On the other hand, maybe some people really are just born c**ts, as they say.

    The documentary itself was very good and Ginger's talent is undeniable, despite his personality flaws. He really was/is one of the best. Also, I can't help but feel the filmmaker was
    happy, in a way, of getting smacked with that putter. Yes, ouch, but it's a money shot if ever there was one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭nelly17


    Watched this on Netflix too - yeah hes a miserable git but I have to say at times I really felt sorry for him. I wondered was he decent at some point and did he just push himself past the point of no return through his drug use.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,907 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    ya have to take into account that it was an entertainment enterprise and no doubt ginger was in it for some cash, so some of the actin up was for the cameras.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Rigsby


    ya have to take into account that it was an entertainment enterprise and no doubt ginger was in it for some cash, so some of the actin up was for the cameras.

    I dont accept this to be the case. Even if it was, what's the point of showing everyone how much the complete p***k that you are ? I assume that he would have got the same amount of money for the documentary had he behaved a little better.

    He did not have to act for the cameras, as people already have a good idea of what he is like.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭triggermortis


    old thread I know, but here is the whole movie, just watched it and enjoyed it and learnt a lot about him
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZOmy2zVzOE


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Sounds like he may be on his last legs.
    Ginger Baker, the jazz and blues drummer who co-founded the rock band Cream, has been reported critically ill.

    A tweet posted from his official account reads: “The Baker family are sad to announce that Ginger is critically ill in hospital. Please keep him in your prayers tonight.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/sep/26/cream-ginger-baker-critically-ill


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,907 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams



    He doesn't want to be in our prayers :)


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