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19-12-2018, 14:42   #61
Anita Blow
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No, the new maternity hospital is a separate facility, on the opposite side of an incredibly busy city. Critical neonates will have to be stabilised in the maternity hospital before being rushed through the city by ambulance to the children's hospital.

Yet another reason why the location for the new children's hospital is stupid.
That's not necessarily stupid. As it stands we have neonatology units divided across the city between Temple St, Crumlin and each of the maternity hospitals. NCH will still have a new larger neonate unit which will accommodate mainly surgical neonate cases (due to presence of paediatric surgeons that maternity hospitals lack) and the neonate unit in NMH at Vincents can accommodate medical cases just fine.

Until the Coombe relocates to James', surgical neonate cases can be anticipated, delivered in the coombe and stabilised there and transferred to NCH at St. James. Once it does relocate, I imagine all surgical neonate cases will be delivered there.
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19-12-2018, 14:50   #62
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And we still have people claiming that the State should be directly involved in the building of social housing.
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19-12-2018, 15:08   #63
Ronaldinho
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The new Children's hospital that was announced by FG a few years ago to cost €485m has now shot up to over €1.4bn, who knows how many more billion it will cost if and when it's finished. Expect a tribunal in a decade's time to find out who is really benefiting from the explosion in costs, it's all murky in the making of a financial scandal.

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2018/...rens-hospital/



You read that right, a world first in that Ireland has managed to produce the most expensive hospital in the world! Marvellous statement from one of the most expensively paid leaders in the world who lives off the taxpayer.
Now do you get why many of us are opposed to the higher taxes you espoused in other threads over the past few weeks?
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19-12-2018, 15:16   #64
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This was already the most expensive children’s hospital in the world before a sod was turned and it was obvious from the outset that it would run into massive over runs.

Building on the site of an existing hospital smack bang in the heart of the city was never going to remain in budget.

Never mind the complete idiocy of locating a new hospital there in the first place.

I don’t care what the experts say. They were wrong then and they’re still wrong now.

This will go down as the single biggest waste of taxpayers money in our lifetimes.

We are incapable of managing ourselves.
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19-12-2018, 15:20   #65
jmayo
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Originally Posted by klaaaz View Post
The new Children's hospital that was announced by FG a few years ago to cost €485m has now shot up to over €1.4bn, who knows how many more billion it will cost if and when it's finished. Expect a tribunal in a decade's time to find out who is really benefiting from the explosion in costs, it's all murky in the making of a financial scandal.

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2018/...rens-hospital/

You read that right, a world first in that Ireland has managed to produce the most expensive hospital in the world! Marvellous statement from one of the most expensively paid leaders in the world who lives off the taxpayer.
I don' know where you have been, but you are trying to use this as stick to beat FG, when you might as well use to beat every single political party and public organisation in Ireland.
It is the way things end up here.

See Port tunnel, Luas, M50, PPARS, every fecking public funded project in this country has had massive budget and time overruns.

And in this case what do you expect when they decided to plant it in a very constrained space, end up digging massive fecking hole that was just absorbing cash at a rate of knots.

Oh don't worry I am not defending this shyte.
Go back and look at every one of my posts about this hospital and you will find me arguing that it should never have been put at St James no more than at it's previous location the Mater.

But no, all the medical experts were claiming it had to be collocated and what about public transport.
Yeah all the sick kids and their parents would be taking public transport to the hospital.
Sure what am I saying, who gives a shyte about them, so they added two extra units to Tallaght and Connolly to cater for them.

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Hmmm Anyone in some semblance of authority going to take some responsibility for this?
FFS responsibility aint in the Irish lexicon.

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The ignorance and stupidity of FG for placing this next to St. James A&E where half the junkies in Dublin pay a trip to.

It's a completely inappropriate location for a children's hospital.
Yeah one tiny step up from bertie's Mater site.
Obviously FG had connections with St James where Ff's were with the Mater.

Oh and before the shinners start trying to make hay with this check out how good old Aengus Snodaigh was glad as a local that the new hospital would "help local regeneration and create much-needed local jobs."

And then he got all excited about it being secular and naming it after a Mayo woman.
That is about the only positive in the whole fooking saga.

BTW does anyone know if the cost of the two new paediatric urgent care and out-patient satellite units on the Southside and Northside of the city at Tallaght and Connolly Hospitals which have also received planning permission are factored into this ????

So instead of building the whole lot at say Connolly they are doing a typical Irish fudge job of building stuff both there and Tallaght because they know damn well the St James location is nearly inaccessible.
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19-12-2018, 15:50   #66
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Now do you get why many of us are opposed to the higher taxes you espoused in other threads over the past few weeks?
Wrong approach. With no FFG in power, there will be stronger supervision of such projects in the public's best interest, value for money.

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I don' know where you have been, but you are trying to use this as stick to beat FG, when you might as well use to beat every single political party and public organisation in Ireland.
It is the way things end up here.

See Port tunnel, Luas, M50, PPARS, every fecking public funded project in this country has had massive budget and time overruns.
All projects were overseen by FG and their predecessors in power FF. As FG are in power and you have a tendency to not blame them, this billion plus overspend by FG on a single project deserves a stick to be beaten with. Both parties were heavily involved in corruption in the rezoning of lands in pre-boom times, that has been heavily reported back then.
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19-12-2018, 15:51   #67
Guy:Incognito
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Meh. Doesn't bother me. There's much worse things to waste public money on than a children's hospital.
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19-12-2018, 16:10   #68
 
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Originally Posted by klaaaz View Post
Wrong approach. With no FFG in power, there will be stronger supervision of such projects in the public's best interest, value for money.



All projects were overseen by FG and their predecessors in power FF. As FG are in power and you have a tendency to not blame them, this billion plus overspend by FG on a single project deserves a stick to be beaten with. Both parties were heavily involved in corruption in the rezoning of lands in pre-boom times, that has been heavily reported back then.
So which party would bring the projects on or under budget?
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19-12-2018, 16:11   #69
 
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Meh. Doesn't bother me. There's much worse things to waste public money on than a children's hospital.
That's not the point. It hasn't been spent on children's healthcare or the children's hospital. It has basically been thrown out the window.

By wasting this money it has been squandered out of a tight budget. It ultimately means LESS will been spent on actually providing children's healthcare. Instead it has been spent on what are referred to in industry as 'change orders' -This is where a ridiculous client changes their mind mid-project causing extensive redesigns.

It's the equivalent of deciding you've a 20 grand budget for a new kitchen, ordering it and then saying " hmm.. I think I want it with pink doors" after they've started building it. Then going oh no! "I hates pink, so I do!" "I want purple doors and also I want you to put it in a different house".

The designer scraps plans and starts again.

You then spend more time messing around changing things.

You then get a bill for 60 grand and go off on a rant about how it's sooooo unfair.

On a big project it's even worse as you're effectively going to have to pay for thousands of personnel hours and also retain various people who will effectively be doing nothing productive while the client runs around in circles unable to make any decisions and constantly changing its mind.

You absolutely never ever ever EVER do massive changes like this mid project unless there's some kind of natural disaster or something of that naurre in, certainly in any normal business. It's usually insanely expensive.

Of course we will probably never see a breakdown of what the finished project actually cost Vs what was flushed down the toilet on sheer chaos because that would be too politically embarrassing.

Last edited by EdgeCase; 19-12-2018 at 17:43.
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19-12-2018, 16:12   #70
Venom
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The people that made this decision need to come out and own it and apologise. We all knew / know that the sites in Blanchardstown and Tallaght were more suitable on all points. But it seems an elite group within the decision making had a higher pull of the power strings.

Tbh mainly appears to be staffing related / consultants etc unwilling to be outside the M50 loop.

I know a fair few people working in St. James and they tell a completely different story. The hospital is losing staff hand over fist and finding it impossible to recruit more, due to lack of parking for the staff and how hard it is to get there on public transport. They were stunned when they learned the new hospital was going on that site.
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19-12-2018, 16:13   #71
kippy
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Meh. Doesn't bother me. There's much worse things to waste public money on than a children's hospital.
Indeed.
However if the hospital goes over budget by 500 million (or whatever it turns out to be, something has to lose out or indeed perhaps we could have built a second smaller facility somewhere else for kids with the overspend - or indeed hired more doctors/nurses.
It has a major knock on effect.
Granted a LOT of the issues with these types of things are that the initial cost estimates are completed years before the actual job gets done so they are completely out of whack, however in this case the figures are huge.
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19-12-2018, 16:16   #72
Matt Barrett
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Originally Posted by klaaaz View Post
The new Children's hospital that was announced by FG a few years ago to cost €485m has now shot up to over €1.4bn, who knows how many more billion it will cost if and when it's finished. Expect a tribunal in a decade's time to find out who is really benefiting from the explosion in costs, it's all murky in the making of a financial scandal.

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2018/...rens-hospital/



You read that right, a world first in that Ireland has managed to produce the most expensive hospital in the world! Marvellous statement from one of the most expensively paid leaders in the world who lives off the taxpayer.
Fuppin' Margret Cash at it again!
Be interesting to see details. I'd say they'd no trouble finding construction workers....were as for social housing, there's a shortage of them
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19-12-2018, 16:26   #73
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One thing that is seemingly never introduced in government contracts is fixed pricing. If the build goes over budget there should be penalties in place.
There is no contract, fixed or otherwise. It's still at design stage. No tender has been issued.

ALL public sector build contracts are fixed price. That's why builders are going bust building schools.
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19-12-2018, 16:27   #74
Fr_Dougal
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This was already the most expensive children’s hospital in the world before a sod was turned and it was obvious from the outset that it would run into massive over runs.

Building on the site of an existing hospital smack bang in the heart of the city was never going to remain in budget.

Never mind the complete idiocy of locating a new hospital there in the first place.

I don’t care what the experts say. They were wrong then and they’re still wrong now.

This will go down as the single biggest waste of taxpayers money in our lifetimes.

We are incapable of managing ourselves.
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19-12-2018, 16:28   #75
AndrewJRenko
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Well I for one am shocked........ The original costing was obviously ridiculous. I drive past that on a regular basis and the groundworks alone must have devoured 30 million. The way tenders work for public contracts is lowest price wins 99% of the time. So bam come in with a tender of 450 mill, knowing full well that it's going to cost 3 or 4 times that. But by the time that's discovered they are already committed to the job and no one is ever held accountable for the tender process. The system itself is not fit for purpose.
Except that's not what happens at all. If that was happening, do you really think we'd have builders going bust on school build contracts.
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