GERALD FLEMING ON RTE LAST NIGHT

Wanderer78 · 19-11-2019 7:15am

easypazz wrote:

Here is a pic of the Liffey about 200m from O'Connell bridge. Its already more or less level with the road. I know there is an incline to O'Connell bridge but its clear that if we got 400mm of sea level rise by 2050 there would be a lot of problems along the Dublin quays.

I think it's also important to take into account the underground drainage system that leads into the liffey, this probably backs up considerable during flooding events, add in possible future rises, and parts of the city could find itself in real trouble

pburns · 19-11-2019 7:48am

mickdw wrote: »

We have a situation where long maintained rivers are not now getting the maintenance such a dredging due to habitat concerns resulting in reduced flow capacity etc then climate change getting the blame. It's a tax scam for the most part.

I can this with my own eyes. I'm close to land bordering the mouth of a tributary river, would've burst it's banks once or twice in my childhood but not in over 20 yrs. Meanwhile upstream the local town has been flooded three or four times...

There are literally trees growing in the river slowing down the flow of water but 'climate change' gets the blame!

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 9:25am

Danno wrote: »

Also, you find many of those squealing most about climate change would give their right arm to have a socialism/communism revolution and see this green agenda as a perfect barge-pole for achieving this.

I hear this a lot, but I put it to you that more vociferous alarmists are in fact, Neo-Capitalists.

You might find this interesting in that the suggestion is made that global warming 'crusaders' are just a modern day aristocracy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUgi0t2EpP8

Drumpot · 19-11-2019 10:06am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

I hear this a lot, but I put it to you that more vociferous alarmists are in fact, Neo-Capitalists.

You might find this interesting in that the suggestion is made that global warming 'crusaders' are just a modern day aristocracy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUgi0t2EpP8

So rich people lecturing us are hypocrites. I get the whole “practise what you preach” stance but that doesn’t prove anything on the topic. Are some of you really suggesting mans impact on climate or our world is negligent? So there’s a massive conspiracy that’s global , has the support of a majority of the scientific community/governments and there’s a small minority that knows the real truth?

Gaoth Laidir, does your information prove that there is no man made global warming and/or challange the narrative about glaciers melting away? Does it factor in the suns cycle? I’ve seen documentaries on glaciers that have eroded quite a distance over the last few decades , do you feel this made up propaganda ? I mean I can’t verify it myself so you might be right, I’m just trying to work out if you are just addressing one part of the climate change debate or completely denying it all. Is there no chance that some of their propaganda is stretching the truth like you say but it serves the purpose of forcing us to confront the real truth on how we are having a negative impact and amend how we treat our environment?

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 10:18am

Drumpot wrote: »

So rich people lecturing us are hypocrites. I get the whole “practise what you preach” stance but that doesn’t prove anything on the topic.

On the contrary, it proves an awful lot. Nothing to do with 'conspiracy' (a weak refute) when they flaunt their glaring hypocrisy in front of us daily.

In my experience. Climate cultists are largely 'of a type', and that type is very captalistic in nature:

Middle Class/wannabe poshies ✔
Pro-EU ✔
Anti-Brexit ✔
Fundamentally Atheistic ✔
Pro-Abortion ✔
Anti-Nationalistic ✔
Pro Corporate ✔
Scientifically illiterate ✔
Politically illiterate ✔
Historically illiterate ✔
Anti-Working Class ✔
Anti-Democratic ✔
Sycophants to the Establishment ✔

I could go on.

ednwireland · 19-11-2019 10:21am

pburns wrote: »

I can this with my own eyes. I'm close to land bordering the mouth of a tributary river, would've burst it's banks once or twice in my childhood but not in over 20 yrs. Meanwhile upstream the local town has been flooded three or four times...

There are literally trees growing in the river slowing down the flow of water but 'climate change' gets the blame!

more likely houses been built on the flood plain.

actually having watched a program where they were saying that the thames flood barrier had operated more in the last few years the in the years since it was built i find that in the last 4 years its hardly been used.
im guessing the program was in 2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Barrier

Drumpot · 19-11-2019 10:25am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

On the contrary, it proves an awful lot. Nothing to do with 'conspiracy' (a weak refute) when they flaunt their glaring hypocrisy in front of us daily.

In my experience. Climate cultists are largely 'of a type', and that type is very captalistic in nature:

Middle Class/wannabe poshies ✔
Pro-EU ✔
Anti-Brexit ✔
Fundamentally Atheistic ✔
Pro-Abortion ✔
Anti-Nationalistic ✔
Pro Corporate ✔
Scientifically illiterate ✔
Politically illiterate ✔
Historically illiterate ✔
Anti-Working Class ✔
Anti-Democratic ✔
Sycophants to the Establishment ✔

I could go on.

But there’s nothing in this post. You haven’t addressed one thing I’ve asked. I’m not making any definitive statements, I’ve laid out what I think and given you a chance to respond to the specific points I made. You are just saying things that don’t prove anything.

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 10:32am

Drumpot wrote: »

But there’s nothing in this post. You haven’t addressed one thing I’ve asked. I’m not making any definitive statements, I’ve laid out what I think and given you a chance to respond to the specific points I made. You are just saying things that don’t prove anything.

It proves my point that the cultists are of a type. The only point you made was that the the global climate is warming, and that is a point I don't disagree with. Difference between they and I however, is that I am not in the least bit concerned about it, and I am not sure why I should be, despite all the scare stories dished out to us daily.
Why? because I know just enough about climate and weather to keep my feet grounded.

SaintLeibowitz · 19-11-2019 10:43am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

On the contrary, it proves an awful lot. Nothing to do with 'conspiracy' (a weak refute) when they flaunt their glaring hypocrisy in front of us daily.

In my experience. Climate cultists are largely 'of a type', and that type is very captalistic in nature:

Middle Class/wannabe poshies ✔
Pro-EU ✔
Anti-Brexit ✔
Fundamentally Atheistic ✔
Pro-Abortion ✔
Anti-Nationalistic ✔
Pro Corporate ✔
Scientifically illiterate ✔
Politically illiterate ✔
Historically illiterate ✔
Anti-Working Class ✔
Anti-Democratic ✔
Sycophants to the Establishment ✔

I could go on.

This is bonkers.

What sort of reaction are you expecting when you write buffoonery like this.

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 10:47am

SaintLeibowitz wrote: »

This is bonkers.

What sort of reaction are you expecting when you write buffoonery like this.

Care to expand as to why it is 'bonkers'?

easypazz · 19-11-2019 10:53am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

It proves my point that the cultists are of a type. The only point you made was that the the global climate is warming, and that is a point I don't disagree with. Difference between they and I however, is that I am not in the least bit concerned about it, and I am not sure why I should be, despite all the scare stories dished out to us daily.
Why? because I know just enough about climate and weather to keep my feet grounded.

So you accept global warming is happening, but nothing about it concerns you?

That's fine if you are only looking at your own lifetime, but if are thinking of kids or grandkids there is possibly an awful lot of upheaval down the line.

SaintLeibowitz · 19-11-2019 10:53am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Care to expand as to why it is 'bonkers'?

Your post(s) speak for themselves...bonkers.

BurnsCarpenter · 19-11-2019 11:00am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

On the contrary, it proves an awful lot. Nothing to do with 'conspiracy' (a weak refute) when they flaunt their glaring hypocrisy in front of us daily.

In my experience. Climate cultists are largely 'of a type', and that type is very captalistic in nature:

Middle Class/wannabe poshies ✔
Pro-EU ✔
Anti-Brexit ✔
Fundamentally Atheistic ✔
Pro-Abortion ✔
Anti-Nationalistic ✔
Pro Corporate ✔
Scientifically illiterate ✔
Politically illiterate ✔
Historically illiterate ✔
Anti-Working Class ✔
Anti-Democratic ✔
Sycophants to the Establishment ✔

I could go on.

It seems like a lot of the vitriol is based on this association of environmental concerns with do-gooders/lefties/liberals/whatever. There's probably some truth in it but why should this come into it at all?

My feeling is that if we know:

- the greenhouse effect is settled science
- human activity has led to a massive increase in greenhouse gases
- global temperatures are trending upwards
- there is consensus among climate scientists that human activity is to blame and global temperatures will continue to rise in the short term
- and many believe there could be very serious consequences as a result.

Then surely the rational response is to make big changes to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. But somehow the discussion is about cultists and communist conspiracies.

easypazz · 19-11-2019 11:01am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Care to expand as to why it is 'bonkers'?

Just look at what you wrote.

DesperateDan · 19-11-2019 11:12am

Jaysus there's a lot of ****ing maniacs on this thread. Kind of hoping Extinction Rebellion do ground your lives to a halt in the future if you can be so blind to what the entire scientific community is telling you.

Hooter23 · 19-11-2019 11:59am

Who ever said Science is the truth and never wrong...anyway science is not a good thing that many people believe and has created far more problems than it has solved with there bombs guns and chemicals...these are the same "scientists" that mock all the religions

https://www.mynewlab.com/blog/things-your-science-teacher-taught-you-that-are-wrong/

easypazz · 19-11-2019 12:07pm

Hooter23 wrote: »

Who ever said Science is the truth and never wrong...anyway science is not a good thing that many people believe and has created far more problems than it has solved with there bombs guns and chemicals...these are the same "scientists" that mock all the religions

https://www.mynewlab.com/blog/things-your-science-teacher-taught-you-that-are-wrong/

I absolutely agree. If it hadn't been for science we would still be in the dark ages, maybe 200 million global population and no global warming.

Hooter23 · 19-11-2019 12:18pm

easypazz wrote: »
I absolutely agree. If it hadn't been for science we would still be in the dark ages, maybe 200 million global population and no global warming.

Yes well your wonderful "scientists" are now the cause of the most likely thing that will destroy the whole planet...nuclear bombs...Climate change is a scam:rolleyes:

easypazz · 19-11-2019 12:23pm

Hooter23 wrote: »

Yes well your wonderful "scientists" are now the cause of the most likely thing that will destroy the whole planet...nuclear bombs...Climate change is a scam:rolleyes:

ok, so somebody is going to blow up the whole planet with nukes. Gotcha.

When is this due to happen, and have you a source by any chance?

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 12:30pm

SaintLeibowitz wrote: »

Your post(s) speak for themselves...bonkers.

easypazz wrote: »

Just look at what you wrote.

Ah, so that's why it's bonkers. Thanks for the explanations

I guess we learn something new everyday....

... or do we?

Hooter23 · 19-11-2019 12:34pm

I suggest extinction rebellion peoples to stop watching Rte for your own sake:pac:

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 12:36pm

easypazz wrote: »

So you accept global warming is happening, but nothing about it concerns you?

That's fine if you are only looking at your own lifetime, but if are thinking of kids or grandkids there is possibly an awful lot of upheaval down the line.

Thousands upon thousands of children are dying everyday because of stable climate conditions, starvation, disease, exploitation etc. Why is that the cultists are always more worried about some theoretical future than they are with the very real present?

Notwithstanding, I did ask you what your concerns are recently about the Irish climate in particular, but received no response. Perhaps we could look at some stats to see if they back up your fears, whatever they might be.

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 12:46pm

easypazz wrote: »

ok, so somebody is going to blow up the whole planet with nukes. Gotcha.

When is this due to happen, and have you a source by any chance?

Didn't Steven Hawkings' claim that the 'Trump Era' would herald in the 'second nuclear age'? And we should not doubt him, because the political opinion of a 'black holes' expert should rightfully carry more weight than that of the ordinary joe soap.

easypazz · 19-11-2019 12:48pm

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Didn't Steven Hawkings' claim that the 'Trump Era' would herald in the 'second nuclear age'? And we should not doubt him, because the political opinion of a 'black holes' expert should rightfully carry more weight than that of the ordinary joe soap.

ok.

SeaBreezes · 19-11-2019 12:58pm

I follow these discussions with interest, but lose hope when it deginerates into name calling. I'm middle of the fence. I think there are 2 separate issues

1) Climate Change.. this is solar driven and always has been. Google Valentina zharkova her science is pretty convincing.

2) pollution. This is man made and we need to clean up our act both for ourselves and future generations.
But it's not just CO2, it's all pesticides pollutants, and poisons in our water air and food. CO2 won't actually kill us but the poisons will.

And to add a point Science is NEVER settled, a theory holds until it is disproven (Einstein quote) we are always learning and improving our understanding.

I found this article interesting https://www.climatedepot.com/2017/05/01/mit-climate-scientist-dr-richard-lindzen-believing-co2-controls-the-climate-is-pretty-close-to-believing-in-magic/

His point: of all warming gasses CO2 consists of 2% of them and a doubling of that 2% won't have the catastrophic effect predicted.

Temperatures have been falling since 2016.. why? Cause we are in solar min. And the sun controls our climate.

But that does NOT give us free reign to poison and plunder at will, we need to learn to live in harmony with our planet for future generations.

And I think an gov if serious about Climate Change would make proper steps such as:
-make it law that you work from home if you can.
-business air travel to be taxed severely. Make people use Skype for business meetings.
Limit leisure travel to 3/4 trips per year?
Free trees to houses with gardens.
Free apiary courses and hives for those who will manage one.

There are three sides to every story, yours theirs and the truth. The climate story is evolving and we are only grasping at the edges of the overall truth. The fact the IPCC does not take solar forcing into account in any of its models gives me pause for concern. But I understand that is to be corrected from 2020? Be interesting to see what the science says then.

That's just my tuppence worth :-)

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 1:02pm

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

It seems like a lot of the vitriol is based on this association of environmental concerns with do-gooders/lefties/liberals/whatever.

What kind of liberalists are these 'liberals' though? Classical? Anarco-Capitalist? Social? Economic?

For the record, I am a leftist and I do care about the environment. I just don't fall for what has clearly become a lucrative media/political selling point keep the populous living in baseless fear.

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 1:09pm

easypazz wrote: »

ok.

I'll ask a third time, what are your fears for our children and our children's children regarding the future climate of Ireland? Do you expect, for example, more 1839/1903/1963 events to happen more frequently, because it isn't quite clear what you mean?

easypazz · 19-11-2019 1:19pm

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

I'll ask a third time, what are your fears for our children and our children's children regarding the future climate of Ireland? Do you expect, for example, more 1839/1903/1963 events to happen more frequently, because it isn't quite clear what you mean?

My primary concern is the sea is rising at over 3 mm per year. If this increases to 10mm per year, as projected, then we are in big trouble on this island.

The engineering works to combat this would be enormous.

I wouldn't be too concerned about an actual severe storm event now and again too much.

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 1:21pm

'Doomsday Clock'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCfLv4exve0

Scientists talking about the 'nuclear risk', after creating, and profiting from, the very thing that has created such a risk.

Oneiric 3 · 19-11-2019 1:27pm

easypazz wrote: »

My primary concern is the sea is rising at over 3 mm per year. If this increases to 10mm per year, as projected, then we are in big trouble on this island.

The engineering works to combat this would be enormous.

I wouldn't be too concerned about an actual severe storm event now and again too much.

I watched this the other night and I think you too will find it interesting.

I thought it pretty fair and balanced on the whole regarding sea level rise issue. The guy speaking is an aspiring physicist and climate scientist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNkVGiSgOM4

GERALD FLEMING ON RTE LAST NIGHT

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