Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Feisar · 26-11-2020 9:20am

Mellor wrote: »

What else would stolen rifles be used for?
I doubt anyone stealing firearms is using them lawfully.

All stolen firearms are used in crime.
Not all firearms used in crime are stolen.

Two completely dfferent subsets. I don't think there's merit in pretending that stolen rifles are not used in crime, but rather show how minute it is in the bigger picture. But they'll present it what ever way they need to.

The report refers to high muzzle energy rifles, which it does not define. High powered compared to what? I take it something around .308 and above? I just haven't heard/read about anyone being shot with a bolt action rifle.

Cass · 26-11-2020 1:54pm

Feisar wrote: »

The report refers to high muzzle energy rifles, which it does not define.

High muzzle energy rifles is defined under SI 622/2011 (the range si):

"High Muzzle Energy Rifle” means a rifle which produces a muzzle energy in excess of 4,500 Joules;

Now excuse me jumping in with the Irish law, i have not fully read all the latest posts so i could be referring to the Irish law when you all are talking another country.

BattleCorp · 26-11-2020 2:07pm

Mellor wrote: »

All stolen firearms are used in crime.

Absolutely not remotely true. Yes, some are, but not all.

It may be possible that a criminal steals a gun that they can't get ammo for. Suppose a local gobsh1te steals a .338 lapua rifle. Where do they get ammo for it? They may steal a gun that's not really very useful in carrying out a crime (e.g. a shotgun that you can saw the barrel off of is much more useful to a criminal than a 50cal barrett).

And some gun owners keep their guns disassembled and in different safes (it's a condition on 3 of my restricted firearms) so if someone broke into one of my safes, they could steal my gun but it wouldn't work for them as it would be missing a necessary part and therefore couldn't be used in a crime. Unless of course they wanted to hop someone over the head with it.

Uinseann_16 · 26-11-2020 2:44pm

Cass wrote: »

High muzzle energy rifles is defined under SI 622/2011 (the range si):

Now excuse me jumping in with the Irish law, i have not fully read all the latest posts so i could be referring to the Irish law when you all are talking another country.

Yeah theyre talkng about the UK but it gives a good refernece point!:D

Mellor · 26-11-2020 3:05pm

Feisar wrote: »

The report refers to high muzzle energy rifles, which it does not define. High powered compared to what? I take it something around .308 and above? I just haven't heard/read about anyone being shot with a bolt action rifle.

I was referring to the statement in your post.
Whatever high powered is defined as has no bearing.

BattleCorp wrote: »

Absolutely not remotely true. Yes, some are, but not all.

It may be possible that a criminal steals a gun that they can't get ammo for. Suppose a local gobsh1te steals a .338 lapua rifle. Where do they get ammo for it? They may steal a gun that's not really very useful in carrying out a crime (e.g. a shotgun that you can saw the barrel off of is much more useful to a criminal than a 50cal barrett).

And some gun owners keep their guns disassembled and in different safes (it's a condition on 3 of my restricted firearms) so if someone broke into one of my safes, they could steal my gun but it wouldn't work for them as it would be missing a necessary part and therefore couldn't be used in a crime. Unless of course they wanted to hop someone over the head with it.

You are making a couple of errors here. Firstly you seem to be equating criminal offence with shooting a firearm. Not remotely the same.
You don’t need ammo to commit a crime with a firearm. A empty firearm can be sold illegally, or used to commit a robbery. The actual possession of a firearm, that is stolen, is in itself a crime. Regardless of whether or not it is ever fired.

Firearms that are stolen are done so with the sole intention of committing crime. Whether the intend crime happens occurs doesn’t change the fact that criminal activity has taken place.
Going along the line that firearms that are stolen are not done so for crime is a very bad argument.

I’m sure there are outlier cases, where it won’t technically apply. Still a bad angle imo.
Much better to show how x% of firearms crime comes from firearms that where never licensed.

Grizzly 45 · 26-11-2020 3:52pm

Basically, this is referring to the 50 cal rifles and the like. Of which there are all about 200 people who shoot these in the UK.
Now,I somehow don't think a Boys anti-tank rifle, all 35 lbs and 5ft 2ins of it, or the like is a very suitable firearm for the local post office job on pension day.

It seems the Home office have this fear that maybe Matoub and Jamal suffering an attack of Aloha Snackbar might decide to theive such a rifle and go away and shoot up some high-value target with large cal solid rounds. Same as MARS rifles "might be " used in a mass shooting or by criminals...Despite not ONE of them ever been stolen.

So just how likely is such a scenario in real life for a terrorist?.
When do we consider what the "RA did with a few Calor gas bottles, some piping and a bit of semtex? Or the Religion of peace did in the UK with some vans and kitchen knives in the last few years?
It's a very pathetic excuse of "might happen" "criminals and terrorists"might use" them" that is part of the UK mentality to create a stronger police state with disarmed Britons.

Feisar · 26-11-2020 4:05pm

Cass wrote: »

High muzzle energy rifles is defined under SI 622/2011 (the range si):

Now excuse me jumping in with the Irish law, i have not fully read all the latest posts so i could be referring to the Irish law when you all are talking another country.

UK under discussion however thank you, I wasn't aware we have a definition.

tudderone · 26-11-2020 4:15pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Basically, this is referring to the 50 cal rifles and the like. Of which there are all about 200 people who shoot these in the UK.
Now,I somehow don't think a Boys anti-tank rifle, all 35 lbs and 5ft 2ins of it, or the like is a very suitable firearm for the local post office job on pension day.

It seems the Home office have this fear that maybe Matoub and Jamal suffering an attack of Aloha Snackbar might decide to theive such a rifle and go away and shoot up some high-value target with large cal solid rounds. Same as MARS rifles "might be " used in a mass shooting or by criminals...Despite not ONE of them ever been stolen.

So just how likely is such a scenario in real life for a terrorist?.
When do we consider what the "RA did with a few Calor gas bottles, some piping and a bit of semtex? Or the Religion of peace did in the UK with some vans and kitchen knives in the last few years?
It's a very pathetic excuse of "might happen" "criminals and terrorists"might use" them" that is part of the UK mentality to create a stronger police state with disarmed Britons.

Wait until it happens here, and it will, we'll see what happens then.

Feisar · 26-11-2020 4:23pm

Mellor wrote: »

I was referring to the statement in your post.
Whatever high powered is defined as has no bearing.

My comments about high powered were alluding to the buzz words one hears in the media. It's a catch all attention grabbing phrase that means nothing. Well, Cass has shown it means something however over here it is miss used.

While I agree you are totally correct about stolen rifles being involved in crime (even the possession of a stolen rifle is a crime). I think their use is a bit of a non issue.

Grizzly 45 · 26-11-2020 7:40pm

tudderone wrote: »

Wait until it happens here, and it will, we'll see what happens then.

Doubt we'll have an attack here.
This is a nice handy spot for planning attacks against the infidels in the UK and elsewhere. They use Ireland as a safe base for recruitment, finance, planning, R&R as "Jihad Jane" and the London Bridge attacks aptly demonstrated. So it would not be in their interest to go screwing this up.

That's not to say we won't get a homegrown headbanger like Khalid Kelly who went all over Syria, rather than Sligo a few years ago!Or Sinead [Grenade]O Connor starts singing again in Islam:eek::eek: It's a possibility, but one on a Yellow to Orange threat level.

Grizzly 45 · 26-11-2020 7:44pm

Sidney Powell might be America's answer to Gemma O Doherty media wise but she is definitely going for gold down in Georgia.

lawsuit, which was filed against Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and other state election officials, seeks to block the transmittal of the certified election results from going to the electoral college, presumably to give Powell and Trump’s lawyers time to present what appears to be loads of evidence against the state.

In the complaint, which is over 100 pages long, Powell asks for “prohibiting the Governor and Secretary of State from transmitting the currently certified results to the Electoral College based on the overwhelming evidence of election tampering.”

Toward the beginning of the civil lawsuit, Powell lays out what she believes happened in Georgia that gave former Vice President Joe Biden a win in the traditionally-red state.

“The fraud was executed by many means, but the most fundamentally troubling, insidious, and egregious is the systemic adaptation of old-fashioned ‘ballot-stuffing,'” Powell’s suit alleged. “It has now been amplified and rendered virtually invisible by computer software created and run by domestic and foreign actors for that very purpose. Mathematical and statistical anomalies rising to the level of impossibilities, as shown by affidavits of multiple witnesses, documentation, and expert testimony evince this scheme across the state of Georgia.”

Here are five allegations that stick out, which if proven true and acted upon, could definitely be a huge win for Trump and his tens of millions of supporters.

At least 96,600 absentee ballots were requested and counted but were never recorded as being returned to county election boards by the voter. “Thus, at a minimum, 96,600 votes must be disregarded,” the suit said.

Kemp and Raffensperger “rushed through the purchase of Dominion voting machines and software in 2019 for the 2020 Presidential Election” without due diligence and disregarded safety concerns.

“There is incontrovertible physical evidence that the standards of physical security of the voting machines and the software were breached, and machines were connected to the internet in violation of professional standards and state and federal laws.”

Fulton County election workers used a claim of a water leak to evacuate poll watchers and workers for several hours on Election night, even as “several election workers remained unsupervised and unchallenged working at the computers for the voting tabulation machines until after 1:00 AM.

State officials in a settlement with Democratic parties made changes to election procedures that violated both state law and the U.S. Constitution.

Powell went on to ask the court for an audit, so signatures could be matched on ballots. She also requested in the lawsuit that voting machines be impounded, presumably for cyber-forensic purposes. She also requested hours of surveillance video from when votes were being officially counted.

Here’s a link to the entire Georgia lawsuit, for your convenience.[All 103 pages of it!] https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2020-11/COMPLAINT-CJ-PEARSON-V.-KEMP-11.25.2020.pdf

Munsterlad102 · 26-11-2020 9:06pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Doubt we'll have an attack here.
This is a nice handy spot for planning attacks against the infidels in the UK and elsewhere. They use Ireland as a safe base for recruitment, finance, planning, R&R as "Jihad Jane" and the London Bridge attacks aptly demonstrated. So it would not be in their interest to go screwing this up.

That's not to say we won't get a homegrown headbanger like Khalid Kelly who went all over Syria, rather than Sligo a few years ago!Or Sinead [Grenade]O Connor starts singing again in Islam:eek::eek: It's a possibility, but one on a Yellow to Orange threat level.

Speaking of Jihad Jane, I recently found out that I had the displeasure of living in the same town as some of her fellow "religion of peace" comrades. Who honestly would think that Islamic extremists live on the other side of town.

tudderone · 26-11-2020 9:14pm

The democrats up to their dirty tricks in Virginia again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbdAVeeSBzE

BattleCorp · 27-11-2020 10:41am

Mellor wrote: »

Going along the line that firearms that are stolen are not done so for crime is a very bad argument.

That's not what I said at all.

You said "All stolen firearms are used in crime." I simply responded by stating that they aren't. And I stand by my assertion that not all firearms that are stolen are used in crime.

A criminal can steal a firearm with the intention of using it in a crime but it doesn't always pan out for the criminal - see examples I gave earlier.

I do accept your other points though.

tudderone · 27-11-2020 2:51pm

An interesting Bolt action rifle based around an ar15 bolt, don't see the point of it myself, but some obviously like them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQowfY9-dZM

Uinseann_16 · 27-11-2020 7:52pm

tudderone wrote: »

An interesting Bolt action rifle based around an ar15 bolt, don't see the point of it myself, but some obviously like them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQowfY9-dZM

Saw one of this on fieldsports britian a few years ago i would love to get one

Uinseann_16 · 27-11-2020 7:54pm

https://www.peterwilson.co.uk/auction/lot/65-bms-cam-223-rifle-serial-number-11/?lot=144119&so=0&st=&sto=0&au=327&ef=&et=&ic=False&sd=0&pp=48&pn=2&g=1

One for sale here

Cass · 27-11-2020 10:51pm

Anyone else not give a flying "so and so" about an Argentinian coke fiend dying?

tudderone · 27-11-2020 11:07pm

Cass wrote: »

Anyone else not give a flying "so and so" about an Argentinian coke fiend dying?

I find football/Gaa/rugby all about as exciting as watching paint dry. I find the stupid amount of money these "Stars" get paid is obscene, £250,000 a week to kick a bag of wind around a field, some people have to work 10 years for that amount of money.

Maradonna, all i can say about him is he crammed a lot into his 60 years, never a dull moment.

Munsterlad102 · 27-11-2020 11:16pm

tudderone wrote: »

I find football/Gaa/rugby all about as exciting as watching paint dry. I find the stupid amount of money these "Stars" get paid is obscene, £250,000 a week to kick a bag of wind around a field, some people have to work 10 years for that amount of money.

Maradonna, all i can say about him is he crammed a lot into his 60 years, never a dull moment.

Yeah there’s crazy money in soccer. I’ve had a few season tickets to the national games in the Aviva and I’ve been to a hurling semi final in Croker, and hands down the semi was better.

About Maradonna, I don’t really care, he was before my time. Probably best not to promote his lifestyle and relationship with one of South America’s top exports.

Feisar · 27-11-2020 11:16pm

Cass wrote: »

Anyone else not give a flying "so and so" about an Argentinian coke fiend dying?

Harsh but fair. The "Hand of God" was a legit defense to a handball when I was a young lad. So the man did permeate our thoughts/was a household name. I do use the "Mum Test", if my Mother knows who they are they must be pretty big. I never get to caught up in the hype when someone famous dies, the words hero and genius get thrown around all to easily. The man could play a game like no other but that's all he could do, play a game. A nurse in a famine zone/region deciding who to feed based on chances of survival is far more deserving of our admiration for example.

Then you have my Dad's dictum:

Grizzly 45 · 28-11-2020 12:07am

So glad to see that thee are others here who aren't enarmoured and fanatical about people playing with their balls of whatever shape and size they might be. Thought I was the only one, so I can come out of the "I hate/have no intrest in soccer,rugby,GAA or another ballsport " closet then:)

I have never found out what the attraction is for people to watch a bunch of millionaires kick a lump of leather around a cow pasture in their underwear.

Rows Grower · 28-11-2020 12:17am

Any person that can't appreciate the skills and physicality of a good game of hurling is either blind or dead on the inside.

28-11-2020 12:25am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So glad to see that thee are others here who aren't enarmoured and fanatical about people playing with their balls of whatever shape and size they might be. Thought I was the only one, so I can come out of the "I hate/have no intrest in soccer,rugby,GAA or another ballsport " closet then:)

I have never found out what the attraction is for people to watch a bunch of millionaires kick a lump of leather around a cow pasture in their underwear.

I would be the same. But personally I don't mind watching the odd game of rugby as it seems the only honest game with the least amount of cheating compared to soccer ect.

One thing I can't get my head around though, is people here who are obsessed with English soccer teams. Then in the next breath express how much they hate the English! And they speak as if they grew up just outside anfield or old Trafford.

Cass · 28-11-2020 2:29am

Don't take me up wrong, i'm not slating sports such as soccer, rugby, GAA, etc. I watch and enjoy them. The soccer guys get paid too much, but that is the sport in this day and age. What i'm getting at is the moirologists and sycophants that venerate him and his ilk, who in my opinion are unworthy of such adoration.

Anywho!

Carry on.

Mellor · 28-11-2020 9:46am

The Rifleman wrote: »

I would be the same. But personally I don't mind watching the odd game of rugby as it seems the only honest game with the least amount of cheating compared to soccer ect.

Rugby has probably more cheating that all the rest combined. They are so good at it you rarely see them on the TV - the opposition feel them though. Tough sport on the body.

Cass wrote: »

Don't take me up wrong, i'm not slating sports such as soccer, rugby, GAA, etc. I watch and enjoy them. The soccer guys get paid too much, but that is the sport in this day and age.

Soccer players get paid far more than they need. But they get paid due to their worth. The communist says its an outrage, the capitalist says it's business, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

BattleCorp · 28-11-2020 3:28pm

Cass wrote: »

Anyone else not give a flying "so and so" about an Argentinian coke fiend dying?

I have to admit I'm Maradona fan. Sad to see such a genius pass away so young. He was by far the best footballer I've ever seen. Sure, he had his flaws (a nice way of saying it) but that doesn't take away from the fact that he achieved great things when he was at the height of his powers.

By the way, did any of you see the three funeral workers who opened his coffin and took selfies with the body? Bocca Ultras got the three lads and it didn't turn out for them. Two dead and one clinging to life.

Feisar · 28-11-2020 4:42pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So glad to see that thee are others here who aren't enarmoured and fanatical about people playing with their balls of whatever shape and size they might be. Thought I was the only one, so I can come out of the "I hate/have no intrest in soccer,rugby,GAA or another ballsport " closet then:)

I have never found out what the attraction is for people to watch a bunch of millionaires kick a lump of leather around a cow pasture in their underwear.

I could get behind this...

tudderone · 28-11-2020 4:48pm

Feisar wrote: »

I could get behind this...

You do know some of them used to be men don't you ? As to which ones, thats the tricky bit,

Feisar · 28-11-2020 4:59pm

tudderone wrote: »

You do know some of them used to be men don't you ? As to which ones, thats the tricky bit,

Well that's just after taking the good out of it. Ignorance is was bliss as they say!

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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