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Alternative homes

  • 18-05-2019 5:01pm
    #1
    Wexforllion
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭


    With the prices of housing so high any thoughts on alternatives.
    Tiny cheap homes seem to be big in the US.
    Some countries seem to be embracing modular homes.

    Is it even an option in Ireland to buy a bit of land and go with these alternatives.
    Tagged:


Comments

  • #2
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Wexforllion wrote: »
    Is it even an option in Ireland to buy a bit of land and go with these alternatives.
    Unless you lived very near said land all your life, no.


  • #3
    Wexforllion
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Wexforllion


    the_syco wrote: »
    Unless you lived very near said land all your life, no.

    Whats the reason behind this kind of restriction?. You can buy a new house in the area but cant build one?
    Is it just another way to control profits?


  • #4
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Wexforllion wrote: »
    With the prices of housing so high any thoughts on alternatives.
    Tiny cheap homes seem to be big in the US.
    Some countries seem to be embracing modular homes.

    Is it even an option in Ireland to buy a bit of land and go with these alternatives.

    You can build anything you want once it complies with building regulations and you can get planning permission. There is no cheap way to build that will comply with our building regulations.


  • #5
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    the_syco wrote: »
    Unless you lived very near said land all your life, no.

    That's not true. Some areas are zoned for development, anyone can buy a site and build. Some areas are zoned green belt and getting permission to build in these areas(even if your local) is very difficult.


  • #6
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    Wexforllion wrote: »
    Whats the reason behind this kind of restriction?. You can buy a new house in the area but cant build one?
    Is it just another way to control profits?

    Its to do with appropriate development and planning guidelines. Anyone can buy and build in a zoned area.


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  • #7
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    knipex wrote: »
    Its to do with appropriate development and planning guidelines. Anyone can buy and build in a zoned area.

    Besides planning there are restrictions on the type of property you can build.

    If you ask me, there is an urgent need for temporary accommodation that will last 5 to 10 years to cover us until mainstream building ramps up. This would need to be done on large well managed sites with hundreds of units. But that is not the way the government wants to go.


  • #8
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    Besides planning there are restrictions on the type of property you can build.

    If you ask me, there is an urgent need for temporary accommodation that will last 5 to 10 years to cover us until mainstream building ramps up. This would need to be done on large well managed sites with hundreds of units. But that is not the way the government wants to go.

    Once you comply with guidelines \ regulations and get planning you can build what ever you like..


  • #9
    Wexforllion
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Wexforllion


    Is there any reliable companies building modular homes here?


  • #10
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    knipex wrote: »
    Once you comply with guidelines \ regulations and get planning you can build what ever you like..

    If you want to build 200 25 sq m apartments you will find you won’t be able to.


  • #11
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Wexforllion wrote: »
    Is there any reliable companies building modular homes here?

    https://www.roadmaster.ie/demountable-dwelling/?gclid=CjwKCAjw7MzkBRAGEiwAkOXexNRXyFGLLGBLgMPWbLHEXUtqmedURxkEGoRSU00uHt53T3bok9Fn2xoCL0MQAvD_BwE

    i live in one of these, council owned. Saw one being taken to a site on the back of a lorry!


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  • #12
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    Besides planning there are restrictions on the type of property you can build.

    If you ask me, there is an urgent need for temporary accommodation that will last 5 to 10 years to cover us until mainstream building ramps up. This would need to be done on large well managed sites with hundreds of units. But that is not the way the government wants to go.

    as in
    https://www.roadmaster.ie/demountable-dwelling/?gclid=CjwKCAjw7MzkBRAGEiwAkOXexNRXyFGLLGBLgMPWbLHEXUtqmedURxkEGoRSU00uHt53T3bok9Fn2xoCL0MQAvD_BwE

    There are some sites already with considerable numbers of more upmarket versions and apparently they will not use the model I live in any more.. google?

    This was very much what was done after the War in the UK; fields of prefabs that were still there decades later. and the problem then of what do do with them when they are no longer needed. But there was the issue that they were still being lived in many years later.

    Such a plan has many pitfalls.

    One step up from a trailer so why not use them?


  • #13
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    I think you really need something stackable.

    It's certainly not a perfect solution. But the reality is that it takes years for conventional housing to be delivered and people need housing in a much shorter timeframe.


  • #14
    AndyBoBandy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,889 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    You could buy a boat from anything from 10k up to 200k. (40k upwards gets you comfort).

    Cost roughly 4K a year for a marina berth (including electricity & Carpark) (based on a 28ft boat).


    https://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1343987/?searchid=17785933&page=4


    People do it. (There are a few liveaboards currently in Malahide).

    Ok, it’s not a house/apartment and might be a little cramped, but you can move around to any marina you want any time you want.


  • #15
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,091 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    The Vulcan II can knock out a 2000sqft house in 3 days.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JhHqZBDSwQ


    Good few companies in this space, give it a few years and it should drastically reduce the cost and build time of homes.


  • #16
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,000 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Don't you think that if it could be done thousands of people should be doing it by now? It's not rocket science or a bright new idea.. It's just not practical under our legislative restrictions


  • #17
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    Besides planning there are restrictions on the type of property you can build.

    If you ask me, there is an urgent need for temporary accommodation that will last 5 to 10 years to cover us until mainstream building ramps up. This would need to be done on large well managed sites with hundreds of units. But that is not the way the government wants to go.

    Why do we need temporary accommodation for 10000 people when there is 100000 vacant houses?

    People are going to have to accept that they will not live beside Mammy unless they buy or rent themselves. If they want a home for a token rent then they will have to accept compromises like the people who buy or rent their own home miles from family.


  • #18
    Wexforllion
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Wexforllion


    Caranica wrote: »
    Don't you think that if it could be done thousands of people should be doing it by now? It's not rocket science or a bright new idea.. It's just not practical under our legislative restrictions

    Relax there. Just a discussion, not suggesting to have solved world hunger.

    What kind of legislative restrictions are preventing modular homes for example?


  • #19
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,113 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I bet if the Govn't left long term leases, of quality residential housing, be at a low or zero tax rate, the problem would be solved in a few years.
    BTW tax free long term leasing is already allowed on agricultural land and has been the driver of expansion of milk production.
    Just to point out that if you do, a bold move, results can be major.


  • #20
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,041 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    You can buy modular homes, but apart from a bit of speed, there are no advantages over traditional.

    They are about the same price as a traditional build when you add in all the stuff that is glossed over in the ads.

    You still have to get planning permission. This involves finding a site you can afford in a zoned area, installing water, electricity, sewer provision, making sure you have road sight lines. You have to build to strict insulation and heating regulations, which are beneficial in the end for both you and the environment, but very expensive in the short term. When you see 'site for sale' at a decent price, that doesn't mean you will get planning for it - imo people shouldn't be allowed to sell 'sites' when it is clear from even a cursory check that they would never get pp. Its a field, grow turnips on it!

    Small detail that almost no-one is aware of - Planning do not concern themselves with legalities. So you could put in plans while misrepresenting (possibly unknowingly) say a boundary, and Planning are not interested. As long as it is within the planning regs the legalities are your business. You could find out when, say, the bank refuses you a mortgage that you have bought a useless piece of land.

    When you are building yourself there is a great deal of 'signing off' to do, which can be organised by a builder but still someone has to be paid to do it. There are very few engineers/ surveyors/ architects waiting for your job to come their way, they are mostly booked up several months ahead.


  • #21
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Wexforllion wrote: »
    What kind of legislative restrictions are preventing modular homes for example?

    The technical requirements of the Building Regulations, Parts A to M.

    Modular homes are a slang word made up over the last 10 years. The typical modular home that people think can be bought and erected for 20k cannot comply with building regulations. They are garden rooms, sheds etc

    The cost to bring them to regulation standard is too excessive to a point that you are better building with block or timber frame.


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  • #22
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    kceire wrote: »
    The technical requirements of the Building Regulations, Parts A to M.

    Modular homes are a slang word made up over the last 10 years. The typical modular home that people think can be bought and erected for 20k cannot comply with building regulations. They are garden rooms, sheds etc

    The cost to bring them to regulation standard is too excessive to a point that you are better building with block or timber frame.

    Where I live is not a garden shed or a garden room... assuring you of that. Council installed and erected on private land so presumably legal etc.

    https://www.roadmaster.ie/demountable-dwelling/

    fully serviced etc and there are others in this area.


  • #23
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    We have lots of land, we don't need these tiny apartments which are built in places which are constrained like NY & Hong Kong. Just build taller buildings with apartments in the city centre and pay less attention to people who want the right to a semi-D within walking distance of Grafton street.


  • #24
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Where I live is not a garden shed or a garden room... assuring you of that. Council installed and erected on private land so presumably legal etc.

    https://www.roadmaster.ie/demountable-dwelling/

    fully serviced etc and there are others in this area.

    The floor plans on their site appear to not meet the minimum space requirements set out in the Development Plan of any Council I am aware of.

    From their website :
    All units comply with Part L & Part M

    What about all the other Building Regulations? Why not mention those?
    No mention of renewable connections?

    What Council allowed these and under what circumstances?


  • #25
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    knipex wrote: »
    That's not true. Some areas are zoned for development, anyone can buy a site and build. Some areas are zoned green belt and getting permission to build in these areas(even if your local) is very difficult.
    Any land for sale in North Kildare nearby the villages is local needs. What I'm seeing more of is old houses that have a large garden getting knocked, and a number of houses put into its place.

    For example, I'm seeing building happening in; https://goo.gl/maps/dEtSkpdycvYCyYY57

    But not seeing anything in http://webgeo.kildarecoco.ie/public/planningsearch/171# for it.


  • #26
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Why do we need temporary accommodation for 10000 people when there is 100000 vacant houses?

    There are not 100,000 vacant houses that can economically be returned to use and are in the areas and of the type where demand is greatest.

    Del2005 wrote: »
    People are going to have to accept that they will not live beside Mammy unless they buy or rent themselves. If they want a home for a token rent then they will have to accept compromises like the people who buy or rent their own home miles from family.

    Agreed.

    BUT housing someone who is Dublin based with kids in school in the area in a house in Monaghan would be farcical.

    Or someone struggling to get a job is Cork or Limerick and Housing then in a rural village would be madness. What hope have they of getting a job in a rural village with minimal public transport links to where the jobs exist.


  • #27
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Del2005 wrote: »
    You can build anything you want once it complies with building regulations and you can get planning permission. There is no cheap way to build that will comply with our building regulations.

    *as long as it fits a very boring design guide in some counties
    *using materials indigenous to ireland in some cases
    *thats not a one off house and meets density requirements in some counties
    *thats in no way individual unless it has some historic link to ireland like cob or a thatched roof
    *thats not 2 storeys if the houses near it arent
    *only if your'e from the area, work in the rural community and have ties there or its in an urban area thats zoned correctly
    *that it meets building requirements that have to suit you basically becoming a paraplegic overnight and still being able to live there
    *thats painted the right colour if an area so demands.


  • #28
    Chisler2
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Chisler2


    Wexforllion wrote: »
    With the prices of housing so high any thoughts on alternatives.
    Tiny cheap homes seem to be big in the US.
    Some countries seem to be embracing modular homes.

    Is it even an option in Ireland to buy a bit of land and go with these alternatives.


    You could start here:- https://jfocarchitects.com/25k He is worth speaking with. You could also consider purchasing an old stone cottage and renovating it with "meitheil" labour of yourself, family, friends and neighbours. That's what our ancestors did and it worked well.


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