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Insulated plasterboard advice

  • 30-11-2020 9:28pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭


    I am putting insulated plasterboard on an extension I am building. Wondering what people thought was the best choice for me.

    Trying to juggle building slimmest walls that I can with getting best insulation I can. Space is at quite a premium here, so don't want to make my rooms to small with super thick board.

    The extension being built is hollow block.

    Currently i'm planning to do option 1:

    Option 1: Stick High End 50mm Insulated Plasterboard straight to the Hollow block wall.

    However I could do option 2:

    Option 2: Create a small cavity between the plasterboard and the wall with a dry lining system. Use thinner boards (maybe 38mm to make up for the space lost.

    What do you think?


Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    50mm insulated boards doesn’t meet regs and not near enough worthwhile in my
    Opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,604 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Note hollow block by its very design causes thermal bridging. A properly built block cavity would be far thermally efficient.


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    amsbam1 wrote: »
    I am putting insulated plasterboard on an extension I am building. Wondering what people thought was the best choice for me.

    Trying to juggle building slimmest walls that I can with getting best insulation I can. Space is at quite a premium here, so don't want to make my rooms to small with super thick board.

    The extension being built is hollow block.

    Currently i'm planning to do option 1:

    Option 1: Stick High End 50mm Insulated Plasterboard straight to the Hollow block wall.

    However I could do option 2:

    Option 2: Create a small cavity between the plasterboard and the wall with a dry lining system. Use thinner boards (maybe 38mm to make up for the space lost.

    What do you think?


    I have an extension, which is built fairly similarly to your Option 1. Perhaps my expectations were just low, but I've had no issues with the place being cold or not holding heat well.

    We struggled to get insulation when we were doing the extension (I think there was some kind of shortage), and as a result 50mm is smaller than we'd have wanted. But it's been great, and it does hold heat well, in my opinion.

    I also haven't really had any issues with the cavity-block build either. The builder I used only really seems to use cavity block, and he gave me details of a few extensions he did in my area. I called one or two of them and they were all happy enough with the end result.


    I have no knowledge of building regulations or anything, though. So I'm not sure about that kind of thing, but for the day-to-day practicalities of living here, i am happy with the extension and it's heat-holding abilities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭amsbam1


    I have an extension, which is built fairly similarly to your Option 1. Perhaps my expectations were just low,

    Thanks for the reply, and great to hear it turned out well.

    Do you know if your 50mm was stuck directly to your hollow block wall or if you put a slight cavity in between?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Pasteur.


    amsbam1 wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply, and great to hear it turned out well.

    Do you know if your 50mm was stuck directly to your hollow block wall or if you put a slight cavity in between?

    Don't put in a cavity they're a magnet for airflow


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,604 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I have an extension, which is built fairly similarly to your Option 1. Perhaps my expectations were just low, but I've had no issues with the place being cold or not holding heat well.

    We struggled to get insulation when we were doing the extension (I think there was some kind of shortage), and as a result 50mm is smaller than we'd have wanted. But it's been great, and it does hold heat well, in my opinion.

    I also haven't really had any issues with the cavity-block build either. The builder I used only really seems to use cavity block, and he gave me details of a few extensions he did in my area. I called one or two of them and they were all happy enough with the end result.


    I have no knowledge of building regulations or anything, though. So I'm not sure about that kind of thing, but for the day-to-day practicalities of living here, i am happy with the extension and it's heat-holding abilities.

    OP has no way of knowing the size of your room., The orientation, the window size and or spec, the roof type, the make up of the rest of your house in context with this extension.

    It's really not apples for apples tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭amsbam1


    Pasteur. wrote: »
    Don't put in a cavity they're a magnet for airflow

    Hi Pasteur, can you expand a bit on why you think sticking the warmboard directly is better than having a small cavity? E.g. what's wrong with a little airflow in this cavity?


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,969 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Pasteur. wrote: »
    Don't put in a cavity they're a magnet for airflow

    the whole point of a cavity is for air flow :rolleyes:


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    amsbam1 wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply, and great to hear it turned out well.

    Do you know if your 50mm was stuck directly to your hollow block wall or if you put a slight cavity in between?


    Straight to the wall, if I recall correctly.





    listermint wrote: »
    OP has no way of knowing the size of your room., The orientation, the window size and or spec, the roof type, the make up of the rest of your house in context with this extension.

    It's really not apples for apples tbh.




    All fair points. My extension is made up of a kitchen extension to the rear of the house, approximately 30sq/m. It also consists of a 'hallway' to the side that houses a bathroom and a 'utility' room.


    I'll ignore the side part for the sake of this thread, as it adds no value to this conversation.


    We have only one 'opening', in the form of a 3m/10ft wide sliding door, which faces west into the back garden (a window/door this size, I presumed would immediately hinder any attempts to keep the place comfortably warm, but it hasn't impacted much/at all. I thought the glass might always make the place too cold, or too hot, in the case of a sunny day, but it seems to have balanced out just fine).




    The roof is a flat felt roof, with a fairly typical 'cold roof' design.


    My extension is a fairly 'budget' extension, in the construction sense, but in the process of wanting to build it, and during the building stage, I was constantly on Google and running around to people who had extensions built.


    Perhaps it's just me, or maybe it's that my house was just well built in the first place (or perhaps not - an 80's council build concrete house, cavity wall with sheets of insulation in the cavity) I've always found our house to be very warm. Adding the extension, despite using cavity blocks, less insulation than I wanted, a 'cold' roof, large pane of glass, etc. I still find the place to be as warm as it ever was before.


    Despite me taking lots of 'budget' approaches, my extension turned out really well, and I'm genuinely happy with it. I find it comfortably warm long after the heating has been turned off, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone if I didn't feel it was justified. I wouldn't deliberately bother writing up a message saying "50mm is grand" if i had 50mm and was constantly frozen.




    One thing I am glad of (now that I know 50mm is sufficient for my personal use), is when I think that if i wanted to double the performance of 50mm, I'd need to go to 100mm. To double that, I'd be at 200mm, (etc. etc.). I don't think the extra 'efficiency' is worth it if you're in a space that's not massive in the first place. In a small space, a lesser effective 50mm is still probably a better option than a much more efficient 200mm, as the chunky walls can become a much bigger annoyance, in and of themselves.


    (Again, though, me getting 50mm wasn't by choice - i couldn't get thicker for love nor money at the time. I can't recall how thick the floor insulation is, but i know that's not as thick as I wanted at the time either, for the same reason, but still we've had no noticeable or major heat loss issues in the 3-4 years we've had it built).




    It is worth noting though, that the chap putting up the sheets of plasterboard was very much on the ball. He acknowledged that there's no point putting a meter of insulation on the wall if theres gaps between each sheet and they're put up ass-ways. He made sure it was tight and closed up and spent ages getting it right, so perhaps that helped a lot in the long run.


    Also, and I am aware this point will annoy you in particular listermint, but we also didn't install any vents in the extension room itself (the hallway part to the side, has some, though). I presume this helps with holding heat, albeit I do 'air' the place regularly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭amsbam1


    Straight to the wall, if I recall correctly.
    It is worth noting though, that the chap putting up the sheets of plasterboard was very much on the ball. He acknowledged that there's no point putting a meter of insulation on the wall if theres gaps between each sheet and they're put up ass-ways. He made sure it was tight and closed up and spent ages getting it right, so perhaps that helped a lot in the long run..

    Good to note. I have designed our rooms to have no electrics or radiators on the external walls so that means the insulation will not have to be punctured at any point.

    Also, I will buy the most high quality 50mm one I can find. Still not sure what that is though.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    amsbam1 wrote: »
    Good to note. I have designed our rooms to have no electrics or radiators on the external walls so that means the insulation will not have to be punctured at any point.

    Also, I will buy the most high quality 50mm one I can find. Still not sure what that is though.

    They’re all the same relatively speaking.
    It’s like buying Aldi milk or the milk from the cow that feeds the queen, once you put it in your tea, you won’t notice any difference.

    You’d be far better buying a cheaper 82mm board than an expensive 50mm board.


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    amsbam1 wrote: »
    Good to note. I have designed our rooms to have no electrics or radiators on the external walls so that means the insulation will not have to be punctured at any point.




    Much as that does make sense, I must confess my external walls do have wiring and pipes on them for switches, sockets and radiators.


    He fairly carefully cut out bits on the back of the slabs, without fully removing the insulation (or at least that's what I seen him doing, when I was gone he might have just butchered it, but from what i seen he did a good job of only removing what was necessary).




    In theory, my extension should be an ice box. It's got lots of things "wrong", but as I say, in day to day use, it's been perfectly fine for me.


    You could always put the plasterboard on the wall, without actually skimming the wall. Leave it for a week or two and see if you're happy with it's heat retention abilities, or then decide to put more insulation on if you're not happy, but obviously that adds extra messing around and a little extra cost. Obviously it'll hold heat better once it's skimmed (as any gaps will be covered over) but it might be an idea if you're feeling genuinely unsure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭amsbam1


    Gumbo wrote: »
    They’re all the same relatively speaking.
    It’s like buying Aldi milk or the milk from the cow that feeds the queen, once you put it in your tea, you won’t notice any difference.

    You’d be far better buying a cheaper 82mm board than an expensive 50mm board.

    There is a notable difference in R value between different 50mm boards. Some 50mm boards have better R values than some cheap 82mm boards


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,027 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    the whole point of a cavity is for air flow :rolleyes:

    Sure, but do you want airflow between your external, cold cavity block and your new, insulated slab?

    Where would it be coming from anyway, since its "inside" your house...?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    amsbam1 wrote: »
    I am putting insulated plasterboard on an extension I am building. Wondering what people thought was the best choice for me.

    Trying to juggle building slimmest walls that I can with getting best insulation I can. Space is at quite a premium here, so don't want to make my rooms to small with super thick board.

    The extension being built is hollow block.

    Currently i'm planning to do option 1:

    Option 1: Stick High End 50mm Insulated Plasterboard straight to the Hollow block wall.

    However I could do option 2:

    Option 2: Create a small cavity between the plasterboard and the wall with a dry lining system. Use thinner boards (maybe 38mm to make up for the space lost.

    What do you think?

    Is option 3 a wood-framed construction, because that's where I'd be leaning if the requirement is to have a narrow wall but optimal insulation?
    You're going to have to consider vapour and damp control with cavity block, that's a significant concern in any living space. As you're not planning double-leaf, why not go for a wooden-framed construction dropped on an insulated slab and get a far more functional construction with an optimal level of insulation.
    Did you calculate the R's for the cavity-block construction? What values did you arrive at and what mitigation plan do you have for damp?

    Have a look at this for ideas around wooden constructions:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2y1qXUaZcU


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭amsbam1


    10-10-20 wrote: »
    Is option 3 a wood-framed construction, because that's where I'd be leaning if the requirement is to have a narrow wall but optimal insulation?
    You're going to have to consider vapour and damp control with cavity block, that's a significant concern in any living space. As you're not planning double-leaf, why not go for a wooden-framed construction dropped on an insulated slab and get a far more functional construction with an optimal level of insulation.
    Did you calculate the R's for the cavity-block construction? What values did you arrive at and what mitigation plan do you have for damp?

    Have a look at this for ideas around wooden constructions:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2y1qXUaZcU

    Too late for wood construction, they're allready building the hollow block.

    R value for the hollow block plus phenolic insulated plasterboard is 2.6.

    Regarding mitigation for damp - the insulated plasterboard has a foil to stop damp coming through, then there's the damp proof layer in the wall, radon barrier in the floor and three coats of render outside. That's all for damp - what else can be done? Happy to do anything else if I knew of anything extra that can be done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭whizbang


    Get the exact dimension of the boards. Some are 2400, others are 2440mm.

    Build the ceiling timbers height exactly 2400/2440 + thickness (52.5?) = height from floor.

    Slab ceiling, block to block, tight together as you can, so its virtually airtight.
    Slab walls directly to the block, as above.
    Job done.

    I dont see the need for airtight tapes in your case, just make sure theres no gaps.


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