Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
26-02-2021, 11:28   #31
LIGHTNING
Moderator
 
LIGHTNING's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cienciano View Post
That's because they don't have a track!
I hear this all the time, sounds like a great business opportunity! Why then do I see a million posts like this across boards and it goes nowhere...
LIGHTNING is offline  
Advertisement
26-02-2021, 11:31   #32
Henry Ford III
Moderator
 
Henry Ford III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,916
Anti social behavior is a big part of the problem. Danger, noise and nuisance in public areas such as housing estates.
Henry Ford III is offline  
(2) thanks from:
26-02-2021, 11:35   #33
TheBoyConor
Registered User
 
TheBoyConor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,138
Op can go on ahead and write their letter or whatever, but they should be going in with the understanding that it is 99% likely to be a waste of time. The government wants to promote things like active travel and they give funding to clubs that engage in sports and development of young people's physical and mental health . It would be very hard to make that case for enduro bikes, especially so when it is a relatively high risk activity with a lot of negative elements like noise, and the general public not really holding off road motorbiking in a good view.

It would be polititcally unpopular. So it'll go nowhere. Never happen. OP be better off go and expend their efforts at something more worthwhile.

Most people view off road motor biking in a bad light due to the association with antisocial behaviour in housing estates. I personally also think the noise of it is a sort of antisocial behaviour. Why should people have to listen to the racket of these yokes on a sunday afternoon.
TheBoyConor is offline  
26-02-2021, 11:37   #34
Cienciano
Registered User
 
Cienciano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 13,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Ford III View Post
This attitude of entitlement is a strange one. There's no requirement for motorsport facilities to be provided just because a few people want them.

There might be an argument for a pay as you go facility to be built, but it would be very expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Ford III View Post
This attitude of entitlement is a strange one. There's no requirement for motorsport facilities to be provided just because a few people want them.

There might be an argument for a pay as you go facility to be built, but it would be very expensive.
There is actually! They won't built it, they can provide land and part of the money. Depends on a lot of things. You need to be organised (which is doubtful in this case) but it's normal enough to be given land and money through government grants, lotto grants and county council. You'll only be given a small percentage of the money, hence clubs always trying to raise money. Even well funded local clubs with lots of members like GAA clubs.
To get a grant or land, you need a few things, be a proper sport, registered club, insured, certain amount of members. If you had all that and had 5000 members they'd listen. Having 10 lads with a bike, no organized club you'll be laughed at.

Even if you did get a field handed to you and €5 grant, there's probably all sorts of requirements from the insurance like having toilets, having areas barricaded off, having first aid on site. If you were given a random field you'd need to put in a car park. Your €5k would be spent just talking to people about building the car park, never mind a machine breaking ground.
Without and endless supply of cash, you need a lot of members willing to give up their time. A few builders, guy with a digger, solicitor, couple of brothers or sisters of high up councilors can save you tens of thousands.

Just googling motocross tracks ireland, there's a few around already. Definitely not worth starting your own when there's already a few others.
Cienciano is offline  
26-02-2021, 11:41   #35
ratracer
Registered User
 
ratracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,277
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIGHTNING View Post
I hear this all the time, sounds like a great business opportunity! Why then do I see a million posts like this across boards and it goes nowhere...
Most definitely because it would be uninsurable!! The one private mountain bike facility that put huge investment into their tracks ( Bike Park Ireland) had to close after a couple of years. Despite being a very well run, and used, place, their increasing insurance costs simply made it unviable. I can't imagine an MX facility having any easier time with insurance.
ratracer is offline  
Advertisement
26-02-2021, 11:47   #36
Cienciano
Registered User
 
Cienciano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 13,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoyConor View Post
Most people view off road motor biking in a bad light due to the association with antisocial behaviour in housing estates. I personally also think the noise of it is a sort of antisocial behaviour. Why should people have to listen to the racket of these yokes on a sunday afternoon.
That's the exact reason a club is good! I live in clondalkin, if someone built a club in west dublin so the skangers could go there, I'd be delighted. Gives people a place to meet, a common interest.
But again, noise is the big problem. Imagine it being built within 100m of your house? Christ. There is land that could be used, near casement aerodrome for example.
Cienciano is offline  
26-02-2021, 11:49   #37
TheBoyConor
Registered User
 
TheBoyConor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,138
Insurance costs.
You'd need planning permission. That then requires all sorts of environmental assessments for the effects on water, the ground. Engineers to design car park facilities, toilets, drainage with measures to prevent pollution of watercourses, a proper road entrance. You'd need to show some sort of plan that you can deal with fires or medical emergencies.
And all this, you can't just cobble it together yourself - you need to get professionals in each field to do it. And they don't come cheap. Professional fees are the biggest cost in a planning application.
And then building it to make it happen is a whole other level of cost.

And then you have to deal with the objectors in the area. Realistically, no-one is going to want this sort of thing in their area. So you will be fighting an uphill battle.
Antisocial behaviour is going to be a major concern. The thing is, if a rural person, say a farmer's son has one of these bikes, they can just tip it around the fields at home. But if a club track is to be made, then it is probably going to be largely people coming out from towns and cities to use it. And in those places, those with the bikes tend to be associated with more antisocial behaviour and trouble making. That will be another reason the local community will not want it - the risk of outsiders coming in causing trouble.

I live in Douglas, Cork. Vernon mount is a few miles away and I can hear the bikes regularly making noise. It is so annoying. And I can only imagine how annoying it is for people living over the way closer to it. And they have the whole area around vernon mount absolutely destroyed. The place is like a perpetual building site - all torn up. There are probably massive amounts of silt laden runoff running down into the tramore river.
If that place had not been a bike track, it is likely that it would not have attacted the antisocial behaviour that resulted in the burning of the house.

By all means, if you have a club bank account with a million in it you might get going OK.

But a few lads with a few bikes - get rich or keep dreaming.

Last edited by TheBoyConor; 26-02-2021 at 11:55.
TheBoyConor is offline  
26-02-2021, 12:33   #38
Henry Ford III
Moderator
 
Henry Ford III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cienciano View Post
There is actually! They won't built it, they can provide land and part of the money. Depends on a lot of things. You need to be organised (which is doubtful in this case) but it's normal enough to be given land and money through government grants, lotto grants and county council. You'll only be given a small percentage of the money, hence clubs always trying to raise money. Even well funded local clubs with lots of members like GAA clubs.
To get a grant or land, you need a few things, be a proper sport, registered club, insured, certain amount of members. If you had all that and had 5000 members they'd listen. Having 10 lads with a bike, no organized club you'll be laughed at.

Even if you did get a field handed to you and €5 grant, there's probably all sorts of requirements from the insurance like having toilets, having areas barricaded off, having first aid on site. If you were given a random field you'd need to put in a car park. Your €5k would be spent just talking to people about building the car park, never mind a machine breaking ground.
Without and endless supply of cash, you need a lot of members willing to give up their time. A few builders, guy with a digger, solicitor, couple of brothers or sisters of high up councilors can save you tens of thousands.

Just googling motocross tracks ireland, there's a few around already. Definitely not worth starting your own when there's already a few others.
They won't do anything. They won't provide funding, land or anything. They don't want to nor need to.

It's up to you and your buddies to fund your own new track, or just use existing ones.

p.s. Could you imagine the scobes in housing estates (at whom this legislation is aimed) putting their scramablers and quads into trailers/vans and heading to a track for an organised but expensive event? No nor could I.
Henry Ford III is offline  
Thanks from:
26-02-2021, 13:19   #39
TheBoyConor
Registered User
 
TheBoyConor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,138
Exactly. The scumbags on scramblers aren't interested in organised sport events. They are doing it just for the hell of it and to intimidate and terrorise as many people as possible.
TheBoyConor is offline  
Advertisement
26-02-2021, 13:49   #40
zubair
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,285
The new law is clearly targeting anti social behaviour and I'd be 100% behind it. It's not intended to do they can send guards into the wilderness finding lads on trails.

Also it really wouldn't be that hard to find someone in the kildare bog land with a couple of acres no good for farming that would let you use it, obviously you'd have to pay them but I doubt it would be extortionate.
zubair is offline  
26-02-2021, 13:57   #41
Mjolnir
Registered User
 
Mjolnir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by zubair View Post
The new law is clearly targeting anti social behaviour and I'd be 100% behind it. It's not intended to do they can send guards into the wilderness finding lads on trails.
It's a way to take bikes of repeat offenders that are known to them but for obvious reasons wouldn't give chase to.

"Oh look little Johnny is on a non road legal bike, on the n81 with no helmet.
Grand we'll head to his house ad grab the bike in a bit."

If anyone even attempted to challenge that law the first thing thrown at them would be that poor fella in the park a few years ago.

It's a bloody insurance nightmare, with bikes it's not if an accident occurs its when and how bad.

Are you going to inspect each individual bike is upto a standard to be there without being a danger to anyone?

I love bikes but jesus the noise of those things rots me after 10 minutes, my neighbours hate the sound of me coming and going and I'm on a 600cc sports bike that still has a baffle, they'd be miserable with little 2 strokes going around all day.
Mjolnir is offline  
26-02-2021, 14:56   #42
Cienciano
Registered User
 
Cienciano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 13,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Ford III View Post
They won't do anything. They won't provide funding, land or anything. They don't want to nor need to.

It's up to you and your buddies to fund your own new track, or just use existing ones.

p.s. Could you imagine the scobes in housing estates (at whom this legislation is aimed) putting their scramablers and quads into trailers/vans and heading to a track for an organised but expensive event? No nor could I.
No, this won't get past the first hurdle. You'll need an organized club, members, treasurers, probably a bank account, insurance etc, hold AGM's etc before they even talk to you.

I knew a guy who worked on sports grants, 99% of grants applications are done so bad they don't make it past the first stage.
Cienciano is offline  
26-02-2021, 14:59   #43
Cienciano
Registered User
 
Cienciano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 13,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjolnir View Post
It's a way to take bikes of repeat offenders that are known to them but for obvious reasons wouldn't give chase to.

"Oh look little Johnny is on a non road legal bike, on the n81 with no helmet.
Grand we'll head to his house ad grab the bike in a bit."

If anyone even attempted to challenge that law the first thing thrown at them would be that poor fella in the park a few years ago.

It's a bloody insurance nightmare, with bikes it's not if an accident occurs its when and how bad.

Are you going to inspect each individual bike is upto a standard to be there without being a danger to anyone?

I love bikes but jesus the noise of those things rots me after 10 minutes, my neighbours hate the sound of me coming and going and I'm on a 600cc sports bike that still has a baffle, they'd be miserable with little 2 strokes going around all day.
Yeah, there's a nice park near me, corkagh park and you'd be out there having a picnic with the kids and a few of their friends and then 10 scramblers would come across the park. Absolute scumbags. You can hear them miles away. All kids around 15 who's parents don't give a fúck. It's sad really.
Cienciano is offline  
26-02-2021, 15:36   #44
TheBoyConor
Registered User
 
TheBoyConor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by zubair View Post
The new law is clearly targeting anti social behaviour and I'd be 100% behind it. It's not intended to do they can send guards into the wilderness finding lads on trails.

Also it really wouldn't be that hard to find someone in the kildare bog land with a couple of acres no good for farming that would let you use it, obviously you'd have to pay them but I doubt it would be extortionate.
Nobody with any shred of sense would give scrambler bikers permission to go into their land.

Firstly they would have the place absolutely destroyed with holes and ruts.
Then if anything happens and someone is hurt, it'll be the landowner that is liable.
What are you likely to get for it? A few hundred quid or so for a fairly big risk of problems.
Next you drive by some day and find they or some associates of theirs are in there after making ramps or water holes or some other mad thing.
Next you'll never get fellas out of it. Even if the first lads who approached you for it go away, you'll have other fellas getting wind of it and coming down trespassing on you.
ANyone living locally will blame the bikers for any damage or theft in the immediate locality, and will blame the landowner for inviting in these outsiders.


Also, if it is being used as a scrambler run, then it is a change of use and will require planning permission. And if there is a complaint in to the council, it is the land owners they will be going after to reinstate the land to it's prior condition and rectify any environmental damage. All probably at a quite substantial cost to the landowner. And plenty hassle too.
The scrambler lads won't want to know about it and will ride off into the sunset on their scramblers, with the poor landowner left behind to foot the bill.

No way in hell would I be letting bikes in on my land. Too much to go wrong for feck all benefit only hassle. So no, it would actually be very hard to find someone (well, someone with a bit of sense) to let you into their land for scrambling.

If anyone has any doubts about it, I'll say go up to the grounds of Vernon Mount and have a look at the absolute cut of the place. The likes of the erosion going on in there is bonkers. In rainy weather there is silt laden soupy runoff down on the access road in off of the N40. The place is an environmental disaster zone from the pounding the ground gets from the bikes.

Last edited by TheBoyConor; 26-02-2021 at 15:46.
TheBoyConor is offline  
26-02-2021, 15:44   #45
Henry Ford III
Moderator
 
Henry Ford III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoyConor View Post
Exactly. The scumbags on scramblers aren't interested in organised sport events. They are doing it just for the hell of it and to intimidate and terrorise as many people as possible.
Wouldn't agree with that entirely.

They are using scramblers etc. wherever they want because they are allowed do so.
Henry Ford III is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet