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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

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    #2552
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Indeed, they are talking about a rail line between Limerick and Cork

    https://dateway.net/greens-considering-railway-line-between-limerick-and-cork/


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    #2553
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Indeed, they are talking about a rail line between Limerick and Cork

    https://dateway.net/greens-considering-railway-line-between-limerick-and-cork/


    It's reinstating a railway line from Charleville to Limerick via Patrickswell that was foolishly dismantled in 1967 but it's probably wanted for a greenway.

    ****



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    #2554
    Sligo eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Sligo eye


    westtip wrote: »
    The Regional planners met with the Greenway campaign in February 2019 and got a very friendly reception from the NWRA planners, no doubt WOT would have met with them as well.

    Yes and no doubt WOT also got a friendly reception as well. It’s usually referred to as “professionalism”.


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    #2555
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,675 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    It's reinstating a railway line from Charleville to Limerick via Patrickswell that was foolishly dismantled in 1967 but it's probably wanted for a greenway.
    If you look at that line on Google Satellite, you can barely make it out, and large parts of it have been completely removed and green fields are in its place. I don't think that there is too much of it available for either a railway or a Greenway.

    If a rail link between Charleville and Patrickswell is re-established, let them build a new alignment alongside the new M20.

    The non-infinite railway infrastructure budget will have to make decisions - hmmm which to do, finish a line between Limerick and Cork, or (re)build one to allow Tuam commuters to get to Galway?

    No guesses as to which would win.


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    #2556
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Sligo eye wrote: »
    Yes and no doubt WOT also got a friendly reception as well. It’s usually referred to as “professionalism”.

    Indeed you are right, professionalism would have prevailed at both meetings; it is what is not minuted at these type of meetings that is more important, the off the cuff comments, the body language and the sheer sense of hilarity when the railway was discussed. Only those in attendance are privy to these indicative moments of human interaction, which are consigned to the subjective moments of the record of history, not written in minutes but written by eye witness accounts and participants.


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    #2557
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Indeed, they are talking about a rail line between Limerick and Cork

    https://dateway.net/greens-considering-railway-line-between-limerick-and-cork/

    The Greens did not mention the WRC in their election manifesto despite naming several projects they would like to see happen, they have a massive focus in this programme for Government on cycling infrastructure and they have a goal of leaving a legacy from this government of a National Cycle Network, completed and delivered. It will be one of their landmark objectives.


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    #2558
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    serfboard wrote: »
    If you look at that line on Google Satellite, you can barely make it out, and large parts of it have been completely removed and green fields are in its place. I don't think that there is too much of it available for either a railway or a Greenway.

    If a rail link between Charleville and Patrickswell is re-established, let them build a new alignment alongside the new M20.

    The non-infinite railway infrastructure budget will have to make decisions - hmmm which to do, finish a line between Limerick and Cork, or (re)build one to allow Tuam commuters to get to Galway?

    No guesses as to which would win.


    The new Cork/Limerick motorway in all likelyhood. It will surely be the first time in history that a motorway has been built between two towns to replace a dangerous stretch of road?

    ****



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    #2559
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    The new Cork/Limerick motorway in all likelyhood. It will surely be the first time in history that a motorway has been built between two towns to replace a dangerous stretch of road?

    The M20 will unfortunately be one of the projects that will be a sacrificial lamb to the greens, FF have in their manifesto a commitment on any new motorways for railway alignments alongside (think I am right on that one), but I think the M20 project will be lost to fiscal pressure, in fact a lot of big road projects will go that way, it won't be the GP fault but let's blame them anyway :D I cannot see the greens problems with Dual carriageways, they make life safer, ok so they mean more long distance commuting so use the new roads for an exceptional bus service, bring in congestion charges and literally take private cars out of city centres. There seems to be an antagonism towards private motorists in the GP, you can have a car and be green, just use it less and use public transport for going into cities. Post 2030 the GP have got the ban on registering any new petrol/diesel cars haven't they? so long term, say in 20 years time they will almost be a thing of the past thanks to the legacy of the GP in government, who knows what will happen by then in 20 years time we will be on WRC/WRT thread on boards, #V25.0 What do you reckon SligoEye can we drag the debate out that long......:D


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    #2560
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    Does anybody have the source of the report Minister Cannon used in his recent GBFM interview? The one where he mentions an 8 to 100 against rail on the WRC. I have requested it from multiple sources but I cant find it anywhere. Cheers.


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    #2561
    Sligo eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Sligo eye


    westtip wrote: »
    The M20 will unfortunately be one of the projects that will be a sacrificial lamb to the greens, FF have in their manifesto a commitment on any new motorways for railway alignments alongside (think I am right on that one), but I think the M20 project will be lost to fiscal pressure, in fact a lot of big road projects will go that way, it won't be the GP fault but let's blame them anyway :D I cannot see the greens problems with Dual carriageways, they make life safer, ok so they mean more long distance commuting so use the new roads for an exceptional bus service, bring in congestion charges and literally take private cars out of city centres. There seems to be an antagonism towards private motorists in the GP, you can have a car and be green, just use it less and use public transport for going into cities. Post 2030 the GP have got the ban on registering any new petrol/diesel cars haven't they? so long term, say in 20 years time they will almost be a thing of the past thanks to the legacy of the GP in government, who knows what will happen by then in 20 years time we will be on WRC/WRT thread on boards, #V25.0 What do you reckon SligoEye can we drag the debate out that long......:D

    Well we could be debating that long alright Westtip! :-D


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    #2562
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    Does anybody have the source of the report Minister Cannon used in his recent GBFM interview? The one where he mentions an 8 to 100 against rail on the WRC. I have requested it from multiple sources but I cant find it anywhere. Cheers.

    Some links for you, not sure if it's what you are looking for

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07kR1YDn9lM


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfv0EGFjxK0


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KypTTQQDAlU


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    #2563
    ezstreet5
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭ezstreet5


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    Does anybody have the source of the report Minister Cannon used in his recent GBFM interview? The one where he mentions an 8 to 100 against rail on the WRC. I have requested it from multiple sources but I cant find it anywhere. Cheers.

    Did Cannon quote that statistic again today?


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    #2564
    CrowdedHouse
    Registered Users Posts: 6,804 ✭✭✭CrowdedHouse


    https://twitter.com/sticky_bottle/status/1273914307244437504?s=20

    Seven Worlds will Collide



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    #2565
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    ezstreet5 wrote: »
    Did Cannon quote that statistic again today?

    No not today, it was from two weeks ago, I would like to see the report is all.


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    #2566
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Some links for you, not sure if it's what you are looking for

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07kR1YDn9lM


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfv0EGFjxK0


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KypTTQQDAlU

    No that's not it. I was referring to the quote the minister used regarding an actual published report where the opening of the railway was for 8 to 100 against. I have heard it multiple times from him.
    That stuff you posted there is old hat from FG and RTE, you know during the recession where even established rail lines and even FG built roads had fewer numbers never mind a newly opened train line with poor timetabling and carriages. I believe usage has improved significantly since then and the ghost train ceased operations about 2013 when students, workers and tourists are using the line.
    As for Enda, he might need a measuring tape regarding the location of the greenway!
    Lucky for all of us the country has/had pre COVID come on leaps and bounds.
    Thanks for your attempt at finding the report for me though.


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    #2567
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Can we assume now that the WRC north leg is now dead, thanks, and move on ? https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/historic-moment-for-east-galway-as-quiet-man-greenway-gets-thumbs-up/?fbclid=IwAR0oHX4LLzbpAbPnM7JTXkNwtB82iVISKMqmPxveAKN9cKkWqDwXD15JmlY
    It has been dead for a long time, but kept on life support by a small number of politicians whose cause it suited.
    The rail report is a perfect example. Proposed simply as a means to block the greenway, it succeeded over the lifetime of the most recent government in stagnating progress and blocking key investment in the west. The adoption of the greenway project in the RSES is likewise no guarantee that some determined 'anti' won't drag it out for another five years by filibustering with pie in the sky talk of trains.
    They should release the rail report though. We paid half a million euro for it, and if it is buried for ever it means that we simply paid half a million of our taxes for no good reason, unless you consider that the re-election of one particular politician in East Galway was in the public interest.


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    #2568
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing galwaytt

    For anyone who doesnt have time to click on the link its an article saying the QMG is included in strategy by the Northern and Western Regional Assembly (NWRA) 's Spatial and Economic Strategy 2020-2032.

    Admittedly I'd never heard of that group before, but that's neither here nor there.

    So I had a look and found the report in question, this is it.

    I went to the rail section, my time is limited right now so forgive me.


    Page 223:




    So to answer your question, no I don't agree its dead. Maybe this NWRA holds the same view as a lot of us, lets have both!

    Will flick through the rest of that report later, its interesting, but you'd have to wonder what sort of weight the NWRA have?


    'To seek completion ......of the review of the western rail corridor.'


  • Options
    #2569
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    eastwest wrote: »
    It has been dead for a long time, but kept on life support by a small number of politicians whose cause it suited.
    The rail report is a perfect example. Proposed simply as a means to block the greenway, it succeeded over the lifetime of the most recent government in stagnating progress and blocking key investment in the west. The adoption of the greenway project in the RSES is likewise no guarantee that some determined 'anti' won't drag it out for another five years by filibustering with pie in the sky talk of trains.
    They should release the rail report though. We paid half a million euro for it, and if it is buried for ever it means that we simply paid half a million of our taxes for no good reason, unless you consider that the re-election of one particular politician in East Galway was in the public interest.

    That's your opinion, there are plenty of railway supporters for the reactivation of the railway north of Athenry that the politician you refer to is doing a master job because we all know that the railway will never be reinstated if the greenway is constructed on the 5ft. Maybe if the greenway is to be constructed along the boundary it would be better! No CPO's but a hell of a cost, might not have the same support though.
    The constant derogatory tone regarding the railway might well be the reason this particular greenway campaign is akin to Marmite!


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    #2570
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    That's your opinion, there are plenty of railway supporters for the reactivation of the railway north of Athenry that the politician you refer to is doing a master job because we all know that the railway will never be reinstated if the greenway is constructed on the 5ft. Maybe if the greenway is to be constructed along the boundary it would be better! No CPO's but a hell of a cost, might not have the same support though.
    The constant derogatory tone regarding the railway might well be the reason this particular greenway campaign is akin to Marmite!

    If the politician you refer to is doing a great job, why did he hang his credibility on having the rail review carried out, and then making sure it never saw the light of day?
    His coffee-break mate has it locked in a drawer since last October. Can you explain that to this mere mortal who clearly doesn't have your in-depth knowledge of the abilities and qualities of our political representatives?


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    #2571
    Sligo eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Sligo eye


    eastwest wrote: »
    If the politician you refer to is doing a great job, why did he hang his credibility on having the rail review carried out, and then making sure it never saw the light of day?
    His coffee-break mate has it locked in a drawer since last October. Can you explain that to this mere mortal who clearly doesn't have your in-depth knowledge of the abilities and qualities of our political representatives?

    To be honest eastwest, it’s you and your comrade Westtip who have ensured that the railway will be coming back. I myself know of several people who were spurred into action to campaign for the railway thanks to the drip feed of bile and anti rail nonsense the pair of you have been putting out for years.

    I do know that your campaign is viewed by those in government and opposition circles as one driven largely by spite and one well known commentator has described you guys as the Burke and Hare of Irish railways, waiting for the body to turn cold so it can be robbed for use as a greenway, or a railway graveyard, as many of us call them.

    How unfortunate for you guys then that far from obediently dying so you can take it from us, the railway has now got a new lease of life, not just from the politicians but also the NWRA, who are putting the restored railway at the heart of their Transport strategy for rejuvenating the North West. That’s despite the desperate spin that you guys and Deputy Cannon have been trying in the media.

    I think Losty Dublin has a great phrase that gets an airing here occasionally; “the rails are coming back, the West’s on track!”


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    #2572
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Sligo eye wrote: »
    To be honest eastwest, it’s you and your comrade Westtip who have ensured that the railway will be coming back. I myself know of several people who were spurred into action to campaign for the railway thanks to the drip feed of bile and anti rail nonsense the pair of you have been putting out for years.

    I do know that your campaign is viewed by those in government and opposition circles as one driven largely by spite and one well known commentator has described you guys as the Burke and Hare of Irish railways, waiting for the body to turn cold so it can be robbed for use as a greenway, or a railway graveyard, as many of us call them.

    How unfortunate for you guys then that far from obediently dying so you can take it from us, the railway has now got a new lease of life, not just from the politicians but also the NWRA, who are putting the restored railway at the heart of their Transport strategy for rejuvenating the North West. That’s despite the desperate spin that you guys and Deputy Cannon have been trying in the media.

    I think Losty Dublin has a great phrase that gets an airing here occasionally; “the rails are coming back, the West’s on track!”

    There was never going to be a railway, once the DTTAS realised they had been sold a pup on phase one.
    The rail review put the final nail in that coffin, which wasn't the outcome that a certain politician had in mind, so it was buried.
    But he can't keep it buried for ever.
    The clock is ticking.


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    #2573
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    eastwest wrote: »
    'To seek completion ......of the review of the western rail corridor.'

    I can't identify a definitive conclusion from that strategy publication.

    - Publish the review of the WRC
    - Re-instate the WRC
    - Accelerate the re-instatement of the WRC
    - Build the Quietman Greenway.
    ....
    - Trains for some, bicycles for others.


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    #2574
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Sligo eye wrote: »
    To be honest eastwest, it’s you and your comrade Westtip who have ensured that the railway will be coming back.

    Have you got a date?


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    #2575
    ezstreet5
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭ezstreet5


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Have you got a date?

    Well, 2021 is the EC's Year of Rail. So maybe 2021.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/attachment/862958/european-year-of-rail_en.pdf.pdf


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    #2576
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    eastwest wrote: »
    If the politician you refer to is doing a great job, why did he hang his credibility on having the rail review carried out, and then making sure it never saw the light of day?

    Have you proof that he is making sure the report will never see the light of day?
    eastwest wrote: »
    Can you explain that to this mere mortal who clearly doesn't have your in-depth knowledge of the abilities and qualities of our political representatives?

    Not really, ive seen your posts.


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    #2577
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    eastwest wrote: »
    There was never going to be a railway, once the DTTAS realised they had been sold a pup on phase one.

    Obviously you don't use that train or even view that train passing with an out of date statement like that.
    eastwest wrote: »
    The rail review put the final nail in that coffin, which wasn't the outcome that a certain politician had in mind, so it was buried.
    But he can't keep it buried for ever.
    The clock is ticking.

    Where is your proof? Plenty of greenway supporters have the outcome stated already on the QMG Facebook page, they must have read the report. Have you seen it too?


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    #2578
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    Have you proof that he is making sure the report will never see the light of day?


    You're clearly an intelligent and literate person, so a little logic should be no problem to you.


    1. Politician agrees to support government in return for a rail review being commissioned within six months.
    2. Rail review isn't delivered within agreed time, but politician doesn't make threats to withdraw support from government, or indeed doesn't walk out.
    3. Rail review is delivered in October 2019, to the politician's closest political ally in Dail Eireann. Politician doesn't demand its release or threaten to withdraw support from government, and doesn't walk out, because

    (a) He knows the findings, that the report kills off the rail argument, and releasing it would damage his election prospects

    or

    (b) He's a pushover who takes 'no' for an answer every time and whose presence in Leinster House is therefore a complete waste of space.

    So, as a logical person, what do you think? Are you an (a) or a (b) person?


    There is also the axiom that the 'dogs in the street' around Leinster House just laugh when you ask them about the rail review. The general acceptance is as it has been for many years now, that this debate is long over.


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    #2579
    ezstreet5
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭ezstreet5


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    Where is your proof? Plenty of greenway supporters have the outcome stated already on the QMG Facebook page, they must have read the report. Have you seen it too?

    One might believe the the greenway was granted full planning permission and full funding by statements from Cannon to the effect of:
    • This is a 'historic moment'
    • Inclusion of the greenway in the RSES 'makes it a certainty.'
    • Local Authorities from Sligo, Mayo, and Galway are now 'obliged to deliver it.'
    • The greenway has been given the 'thumbs up.'
    • The greenway has been given the 'green light.'
    • We now have have a truly 'groundbreaking commitment.'
    • There could be no 'clearer endorsement.'
    • I am more than confident that the Quiet Man Greenway will be the 'gift to this region that keeps on giving.'
    These are awful strong positive statements regarding single reference in the RSES to the "Quiet Man Greenway" along with four our five references favoring rail reactivation. Neither project is listed in the Programme for Government, and the Greens support rail reactivation in their transport policy: https://www.greenparty.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Transport-Policy.pdf

    So either Cannon knows something we don't know (which is possible), or it is just unsubstantiated glee (which we have seen before).


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    #2580
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,965 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Get it right, for Pete's sake :pac:
    Sligo eye wrote: »
    I think Losty Dublin has a great phrase that gets an airing here occasionally; it's “the rails are coming back, the West’s on track!”


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    #2581
    Sligo eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Sligo eye


    ezstreet5 wrote: »
    One might believe the the greenway was granted full planning permission and full funding by statements from Cannon to the effect of:
    • This is a 'historic moment'
    • Inclusion of the greenway in the RSES 'makes it a certainty.'
    • Local Authorities from Sligo, Mayo, and Galway are now 'obliged to deliver it.'
    • The greenway has been given the 'thumbs up.'
    • The greenway has been given the 'green light.'
    • We now have have a truly 'groundbreaking commitment.'
    • There could be no 'clearer endorsement.'
    • I am more than confident that the Quiet Man Greenway will be the 'gift to this region that keeps on giving.
    These are awful strong positive statements regarding single reference in the RSES to the "Quiet Man Greenway" along with four our five references favoring rail reactivation. Neither project is listed in the Programme for Government, and the Greens support rail reactivation in their transport policy: https://www.greenparty.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Transport-Policy.pdf

    So either Cannon knows something we don't know (which is possible), or it is just unsubstantiated glee (which we have seen before).

    Unsubstantiated glee, a read of the strategy documents shows that it’s actually now impossible to build a greenway on the railway line as it would be in breach of at least two Regional Policy Objectives. Nothing to stop the Greenway campaigners seeking out an alternative route well away from the railway...


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