Tubeless road - it actually works

brownian · 10-12-2017 4:26pm #1

I got my first puncture on my Schwalbe Pro One tubeless setup today. Naturally, it was freezing and raining.

I noticed the back wheel felt a bit soft, so I stopped and squeezed it. Sure enough, deffo losing/lost air. Rode on a bit, hoping it'd self-seal, like the theory says.

Five minutes later, had another squeeze. Seems stable. Whip out the pump, lash in some air, so it feels properly hard again (70 PSI? Hard to say in the rain etc., but certainly good to ride).

Four hours later (snow, slush, water, even the odd bit of tarmac), safely home. There is a nasty little cut in the tyre, but no air coming out at all.

While I'm at it - the tubeless do seem to be faster than my usual Conti GP4000sIIs. Certainly hitting a lot of strave PMs without obvious additional effort. The new tubeless wheels are 33mm rims (AL33s), and so a bit more aero, in theory than the 22mm climbing wheels I'd usually use (and also about 350g heavier). I can't see the rims making a big difference (happy to be corrected), so inclined to credit the tubeless.

Anyway, that's just for anyone considering going tubeless - all my experience (maybe 500km) to date is positive.

Eamonnator · 10-12-2017 5:29pm

During the summer, i got a set of Prime carbon wheels, which are tubeless ready. I used them with regular tubes and tyres.
Last month, I decided to go tubeless. I bought a pair of Schwalbe Pro 1s. I put them on(with great difficulty) but I cannot get them to inflate. I've used washing up liquid to try and get them to seal. I tried copious amounts of sealant(60ml per tyre). I used a track pump, CO2 canisters and I even brought them to my local car tyre fitter, who used his compressor type inflator.
Nothing has worked.
Did you have any trouble installing?
And can you give me any advice?

rollingscone · 10-12-2017 7:33pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

During the summer, i got a set of Prime carbon wheels, which are tubeless ready. I used them with regular tubes and tyres.
Last month, I decided to go tubeless. I bought a pair of Schwalbe Pro 1s. I put them on(with great difficulty) but I cannot get them to inflate. I've used washing up liquid to try and get them to seal. I tried copious amounts of sealant(60ml per tyre). I used a track pump, CO2 canisters and I even brought them to my local car tyre fitter, who used his compressor type inflator.
Nothing has worked.
Did you have any trouble installing?
And can you give me any advice?

The GCN tubeless tutorial covers basically everything.

Eamonnator · 10-12-2017 8:10pm

rollingscone wrote: »

The GCN tubeless tutorial covers basically everything.

It doesn't cover Stupid, which until now, I didn't know I was. I've tried all that, still no good. It's cracking me up. I wouldn't mind, but I used tubeless tyre on MTBs for years without any hassle.

columbus_66 · 10-12-2017 8:40pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

During the summer, i got a set of Prime carbon wheels, which are tubeless ready. I used them with regular tubes and tyres.
Last month, I decided to go tubeless. I bought a pair of Schwalbe Pro 1s. I put them on(with great difficulty) but I cannot get them to inflate. I've used washing up liquid to try and get them to seal. I tried copious amounts of sealant(60ml per tyre). I used a track pump, CO2 canisters and I even brought them to my local car tyre fitter, who used his compressor type inflator.
Nothing has worked.
Did you have any trouble installing?
And can you give me any advice?

The compressor should work. If you can squeeze the tyre against the rim with your hands you can get each side of the valve inflated and then move your hands around and it should inflate fully. I had to use the compressor a few times as a last resort but it always worked.

iwillhtfu · 10-12-2017 8:56pm

Are you positive you got tubeless ready rims. Manufacturers often make one of each and it wouldn't be entirely unbelievable to be sent the wrong type. There;s not a huge amount of skill required to seat them. Where is the air escaping from? Are they sealed rims?

Eamonnator · 10-12-2017 9:16pm

These are the wheels

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/prime-rp-38-carbon-clincher-road-wheelset/rp-prod142949

I'm feeling more and more stupid by the minute.

The beads won't move towards the sides of the rims. Air escapes pretty much all around the rim.

Sorry O.P. for derailing your thread.

iwillhtfu · 10-12-2017 9:20pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

These are the wheels

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/prime-rp-38-carbon-clincher-road-wheelset/rp-prod142949

I'm feeling more and more stupid by the minute.

The beads won't move towards the sides of the rims. Air escapes pretty much all around the rim.

Sorry O.P. for derailing your thread.

Tubeless ready alright. Have you tried seating the tyre without sealant then you can remove the valve core and add sealant afterwards?

Perhaps try seating them with a tube first.

Eamonnator · 10-12-2017 9:30pm

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Tubeless ready alright. Have you tried seating the tyre without sealant then you can remove the valve core and add sealant afterwards?

Perhaps try seating them with a tube first.

I tried that. I haven't tried seating them with a tube.
I'll try that tomorrow.

rollingscone · 10-12-2017 11:32pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

It doesn't cover Stupid, which until now, I didn't know I was. I've tried all that, still no good. It's cracking me up. I wouldn't mind, but I used tubeless tyre on MTBs for years without any hassle.

I picked up one of the tubeless pumps cheep-cheep took all of the stress out of it.

Also injecting sealant through the valve.

It's getting the tyre on the bead that's the issue 9 times out of 10. Did you ever hear it popping into place?

Eamonnator · 11-12-2017 12:14am

rollingscone wrote: »

I picked up one of the tubeless pumps cheep-cheep took all of the stress out of it.

Also injecting sealant through the valve.

It's getting the tyre on the bead that's the issue 9 times out of 10. Did you ever hear it popping into place?

No popping.
I've tried injecting the sealant through the valve. Sealant goes in, but doesn't help..

Eamonnator · 11-12-2017 12:18am

Would one of those tubeless pumps give me more pressure than a garage pump?

Alek · 11-12-2017 12:26am

Try some soapy water around the bead, after the tyre is already mounted and before inflating. Gives additional sealing.

secman · 11-12-2017 12:29am

Alek wrote: »

Try some soapy water around the bead, after the tyre is already mounted and before inflating. Gives additional sealing.

Alek... he tried That, see OP original post...seems he's tried everything possible... even a compressor !

Alek · 11-12-2017 12:41am

How about removing the valve core for the first inflation and using CO2, which has most likely the best kick (I'm ready to be corrected here)?

Also, I tend to keep the tyre in the air when seating tubeless, to avoid flattening the tyre on the bottom.

If all this fails, your wheels must be dud. I'll take them from you no problem.

Eamonnator · 11-12-2017 12:47am

I've tried it with the valve core removed and CO2.
I haven't tried with the wheel in the air.

rollingscone · 11-12-2017 12:51am

Eamonnator wrote: »

Would one of those tubeless pumps give me more pressure than a garage pump?

No but it makes it a less stressful experience than blowing through c02.

If it's not popping odds are it's a problem with the tyre or the rim. Can you try another combination?

Maybe try the tube first though...

Eamonnator · 11-12-2017 12:59am

I've been trying with the rear wheel only. I'll give the front wheel a lash tomorrow and take it from there.
On a side note. About four years ago, I tried to make a Zonda wheel tubeless , using a non tubeless Schwalbe tyre. I got it to inflate without any bother. I was afraid to try it out on the road.

TooObvious · 11-12-2017 9:53am

Find somebody with an Airshot and borrow it: - http://www.airshotltd.com/

I've managed to get 3 inch wide tubeless tyres to inflate using it so it should work for your skinnies.

topcat77 · 11-12-2017 10:31am

Had the same problem myself one time. I had to seat it with a tube first, remove the tube carefully leaving one side still seated and should then work a treat.

brownian · 11-12-2017 12:18pm

Jeepers. I got mine fitted on, when I bought tubeless-ready wheels. The Schwalbes are meant to be 'tubeless easy' - now you have me worried!

Mind you, so long as the sealant keeps working its magic....

axer · 11-12-2017 4:00pm

Looking at getting a Giant Contend that comes with tubeless tyres. Would tubeless tyres be as good as the likes of GP 4 Seasons tyres that have a kevlar lining when cycling around Dublin city? I was planning on swapping the tyres straight away but now I'm not so sure.

brownian · 11-12-2017 7:27pm

The theory is that any small punctures (thorns, that sort of thing) will auto-seal quickly enough that you can keep riding, or just stop and give a few strokes of the pump. That worked for me last weekend, but a sample of one event is not strong evidence yet. Bigger holes you plug with an 'anchovy' (a bit of rubber stringy stuff, that you push into the hole with a tiny fork - google it!)

You should get no pinch flats, as there's no tube to pinch. In Dublin, with it's less-than-silky roads, I'd expect this to be a big plus.

If you do get a puncture that the system fails to fix, then you have an issue, as you have to fight the tyre off, fit a tube, fight it back on (they tend to be tight, I hear) and ride it home as a 'normal' tyre. Then look again at a repair.

In your position, I'd ride the tubeless until it gave me trouble, then consider going tubed, or not, depending on how long the tubeless was a positive experience. Which is pretty much what I plan on doing myself.

Alek · 11-12-2017 9:40pm

Just don't forget to take out these thorns that auto sealed previously, before you insert the tube. Been there, done that.... Ã°Å¸Ëœ

andy69 · 11-12-2017 9:55pm

isn't this just basically the sealant that is doing the 'magic' here no? My wife won't change a tyre, no way, not interested, not gonna happen. I put tubes in her tyres with sealant and they've been working grand for years. Simple tyre and tube combo (weighs a ton, but she doesn't care). No messing with trying to seal tubless tyres on rims or any of that faffing around.

what's the advantage of tubeless, is it just the weight saving?

anyway, for the record we use GP4 Season - they're on all her (and my) bikes. I don't use the sealant and could count the punctures on one hand over the last 7yrs or so that I've been using them (10k a year on avg).
Wife got two punctures over that time, but she has a strange aversion to not bothering to go round gunk on the road like I would instinctively do

I'm maybe missing something but can't really see the point other than mabe the weight thing?

ian_rush · 11-12-2017 10:34pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

I've been trying with the rear wheel only. I'll give the front wheel a lash tomorrow and take it from there.
On a side note. About four years ago, I tried to make a Zonda wheel tubeless , using a non tubeless Schwalbe tyre. I got it to inflate without any bother. I was afraid to try it out on the road.

Not sure if it is the case with Prime but with Wiggle's Cosine, "tubeless ready" wheelset it required removing the rim tape that came with the wheel and replacing it this stuff, http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/schwalbe-tubeless-rim-tape-10m-roll/rp-prod160519. My school boy error was initially trying to put the schwalbe tape over the pre-installed rim tape, which had similar symptoms to what you describe.

iwillhtfu · 11-12-2017 11:01pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

These are the wheels

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/prime-rp-38-carbon-clincher-road-wheelset/rp-prod142949

ian_rush wrote: »

Not sure if it is the case with Prime but with Wiggle's Cosine, "tubeless ready" wheelset it required removing the rim tape that came with the wheel and replacing it this stuff, http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/schwalbe-tubeless-rim-tape-10m-roll/rp-prod160519. My school boy error was initially trying to put the schwalbe tape over the pre-installed rim tape, which had similar symptoms to what you describe.

From the link above

"Tubeless tape (Installed)"

harringtonp · 12-12-2017 12:42am

Eamonnator wrote: »

During the summer, i got a set of Prime carbon wheels, which are tubeless ready. I used them with regular tubes and tyres.
Last month, I decided to go tubeless. I bought a pair of Schwalbe Pro 1s. I put them on(with great difficulty) but I cannot get them to inflate. I've used washing up liquid to try and get them to seal. I tried copious amounts of sealant(60ml per tyre). I used a track pump, CO2 canisters and I even brought them to my local car tyre fitter, who used his compressor type inflator.
Nothing has worked.
Did you have any trouble installing?
And can you give me any advice?

You're not alone. I had similar problems, gave up and went latex with light fast tyres. Blew a tyre and damaged the rim so rather than sending just one wheel back for rebuild, I sent both along with the Schwalbe Pro Ones and got the wheelbuilder to fit them. I've since bought a Lifeline Airblast and will get a chance to use it when adding more sealant next Spring. I've decided that if its not working easily I'll go to somebody and watch and see how they fit them.

aworthycause · 12-12-2017 10:52am

If the tire isn't popping in you have one of two issues. Either the air isn't going in quickly enough to push the tire on all the way round in a single instant, or you have a leak. If it is a leak it's a big one, as the tire would pop on with just a small leak.

An inflator makes the first installation so much easier. It has the required pressure and force to pop the tire on. It's not essential in every installation. Some tire / rim combos will inflate first go with a pump. But that's just luck.

It's possible the leak is caused by the tire being on the ground as you inflate. Hang it off something, door handle another bike's handlebars, so there is no pressure on it. This is only necessary if the bead is not hooked (ie first inflation after installing the tire). The other probable leak is the valve. Is it tightened on all the way?

Also, a word of warning on CO2. The inflators work great, but come back and pump it with a regular air pump over the first few days to replace the CO2. CO2 leaks over time, much quicker than air.

El Vino · 12-12-2017 12:29pm

Also with a CO2 inflator have the valve at the highest point think 12 o clock so the CO2 goes in as far away from the sealant as possible some sealants don't react well to the icy blast from CO2 inflators.

Mostly when I have an issue it is at the valve, might be worth putting some suds around the outside to see if there is a leak there.
Something which a shop mechanic told me which has worked well, after adding sealant but before inflation let the wheel rest horizontally on each side for half an hour, as level as you can make it.
Tyres that refused to inflate before doing this worked well after.

aworthycause · 12-12-2017 12:35pm

Good advice @elVino also, holding the wheel horizontally and spinning helps the sealant get its way around

Tubeless road - it actually works

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