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20-05-2017, 21:31   #61
mariaalice
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These sort of thread usually peter out after someone has worked themselves in a frenzy that ends with sense of entitlement!!!!
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20-05-2017, 21:34   #62
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By all means eliminate welfare fraud, just let's not forget why it exists in the first place.
Why do you think it exists?
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20-05-2017, 21:41   #63
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Nonsense. Tax fraud can be something as simple as someone not declaring income from a nixer. It doesn't have anything to do with how much wealth you have already!
And to add, the published defaulters list only includes those who met the publishing criteria. There are many more cases each year which aren't on the list.
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20-05-2017, 21:50   #64
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This happens every year. Minister for Social protection creates red herring diversionary non story and it all blows over with minimal change....next
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20-05-2017, 21:53   #65
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This happens every year. Minister for Social protection creates red herring diversionary non story and it all blows over with minimal change....next
Me thinks this one means business...it sets a general anti welfare narrative which is very welcome
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20-05-2017, 21:59   #66
 
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Except it doesn't work. 20,800 allegations of alleged social welfare fraud were dealt with by the Department However, "only a minority of these reports tend to result in welfare payments being stopped or reduced. The majority of reports do not contain sufficient information or contain incorrect allegations" So in effect it's encouraging people to make false allegations against their neighbours.
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20-05-2017, 22:03   #67
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Me thinks this one means business...it sets a general anti welfare narrative which is very welcome
Narratives mean nothing. strategic action plans and real savings mean something
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20-05-2017, 22:25   #68
 
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Why do you think it exists?
For all the reasons Road_High has stated, the point I was making is that (corruption) is not exclusive to a small social category (namely the working or under classes) but is part of the larger problem across the entire spectrum. If Leo Varadkar really wants to make a difference maybe he should propose the establishment of an anti-corruption agency with specific power to tackle it across the board. It would go a long way to making this a more balanced society in general. Lead by example and all that. If he did I'd happily vote for him in the next GE.
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20-05-2017, 22:44   #69
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For all the reasons Road_High has stated, the point I was making is that (corruption) is not exclusive to a small social category (namely the working or under classes) but is part of the larger problem across the entire spectrum.
The working / under classes may be the people that the social welfare system is there to serve, but the people who are stealing from it are a different category to the people who are legitimately benefitting from it.
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20-05-2017, 22:48   #70
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Except it doesn't work. 20,800 allegations of alleged social welfare fraud were dealt with by the Department However, "only a minority of these reports tend to result in welfare payments being stopped or reduced. The majority of reports do not contain sufficient information or contain incorrect allegations" So in effect it's encouraging people to make false allegations against their neighbours.
We should shut down AGS in that case, since only a minority of complaints to the Gardai result in successful prosecutions.
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20-05-2017, 23:06   #71
 
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The working / under classes may be the people that the social welfare system is there to serve, but the people who are stealing from it are a different category to the people who are legitimately benefitting from it.
The discussion should be much broader than social welfare fraud, it extends far beyond it and I think it's pointless to target one area without taking everything into account.

But just for example in terms of savings, 500m recouped is less than the 643m spent on administrative costs of the dsp in 2017. The actual figure paid out in pensions 7.27 billion. That's a lot of money but I just wanted to to demonstrate the numbers we're working with.

The working age income supports are 3.6 billion and illness and disability is 3.8 billion.

The savings in fraud are tiny in comparison to these figures, which suggests the problem is much bigger than a few unscrupulous individuals.

The country needs a kick start in the right direction and this is just small fish, just something to distract from the real issues that need to be dealt with.
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20-05-2017, 23:07   #72
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You'd think we have something like Brexit to worry about. The cost to the economy will be more than "some family I know on the dole".
Brexit is not under the remit of the Dept. of Social Affairs and Protection. That would be the Dept. of Foreign Affairs or the office of the Taoiseach. Unless you think that the government is directing every single person in the civil service to look into this issue, which I think you know they are not. What you are doing is whataboutery in effect.
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20-05-2017, 23:08   #73
 
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We should shut down AGS in that case, since only a minority of complaints to the Gardai result in successful prosecutions.
Hardly the same thing, plus it took me an age to figure out what AGS meant. Is it really commonly used?
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20-05-2017, 23:09   #74
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Originally Posted by koumi View Post
The discussion should be much broader than social welfare fraud, it extends far beyond it and I think it's pointless to target one area without taking everything into account.

But just for example in terms of savings, 500m recouped is less than the 643m spent on administrative costs of the dsp in 2017. The actual figure paid out in pensions 7.27 billion. That's a lot of money but I just wanted to to demonstrate the numbers we're working with.

The working age income supports are 3.6 billion and illness and disability is 3.8 billion.

The savings in fraud are tiny in comparison to these figures, which suggests the problem is much bigger than a few unscrupulous individuals.

The country needs a kick start in the right direction and this is just small fish, just something to distract from the real issues that need to be dealt with.
It was 50 million
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20-05-2017, 23:10   #75
 
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It was 50 million
jays, the toilet cleaners money
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