Everest

banie01 · 21-05-2019 4:16pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

I think those calling him selfish and demanding the family recieve no financial support is more harmful.

There's your comprehension issue raising itself again.

No-one has said the family should receive no support.
What has been said is the money raised for a specific purpose should be used for that purpose or refunded.

If there is a fundraiser for the family, please share it.
The rescue and recovery fundraiser is not that!

Tomw86 · 21-05-2019 4:17pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

I think those calling him selfish and demanding the family recieve no financial support is more harmful.

There was most certainly a level of selfishness in him undertaking the climb of Everest.

josip · 21-05-2019 4:18pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

Shame on you for wanting a pregnant bereaved woman and her child to not receive any financial support.

Shame on their husband and father for putting them in this situation

rdwight · 21-05-2019 4:20pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

Well, it is for a recovery mission but if that doesn't go ahead it will go to the family. That's not deception. Why do you have a problem with that?

Because it doesn't say that on the gofundme page.

However, I agree with you that the thread should be closed to new posts.

There have been no developments for several days (apart from the gofundme total ticking along). All the points that need to be made have been made.

I agree with many of the points made about parental responsibility, the disingenuousness that surrounds charity holidays, and the ethics of pushing for recovering bodies from dangerous places. However, there haven't really been any new points in the last couple of hundred posts and posters are edging towards abusiveness too easily.

Tomw86 · 21-05-2019 4:21pm

Is there any update on insurance, or whether there will be a payout with a body?

Probably impossible to know unless you know the family/friends.

SusieBlue · 21-05-2019 4:23pm

gctest50 wrote: »

That's just a way to get it shut down those sort use

Anyway stuff more back on the track :

Saying :

would be a bit more honest than saying

Its actually even worse, I don't there's even an option to take out search & rescue insurance.
Companies don't even offer it, so he couldn't have taken it out even if he wanted to. You're on your own if you get into trouble.
His family were basically doomed if something happened to him, which they would have known, and unfortunately it did.

kunst nugget · 21-05-2019 4:24pm

Tomw86 wrote: »

Is there any update on insurance, or whether there will be a payout with a body?

Probably impossible to know unless you know the family/friends.

I don't think it's possible to get any insurance to cover you if you attempt to climb Everest.

Panrich · 21-05-2019 4:27pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

We've already figured out that the money is for a recovery mission and if not it goes to the family. You don't want either of these to happen. That's pretty horrible.

No we haven't figured this out. The money is solely for a rescue and recovery mission as advertised to donors on the gofundme page.

Tomw86 · 21-05-2019 4:27pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

I don't think it's possible to get any insurance to cover you if you attempt to climb Everest.

Yeah, that's what I assumed. I don't know if Trinity would pay out for death in service, or if what he was doing was backed by them - I would think there is more chance of that though then any insurance policy though.

LollipopJimmy · 21-05-2019 4:31pm

It really is a sad situation but as I had been saying the gofundme is very misleading. I think more needs to be done to regulate this type of fundraisers especially when the amounts are this big.

This particular gofundme states the money is to cover the substantial cost of search and rescue, which we all know won't happen. It also states he was out there raising vital funds for Barretstown, again this is simply not true. The truth of that is any leftover money would be sent to Barretstown of which there was likely to be none.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 21-05-2019 4:33pm

I don't think that he'd want any dangerous recovery attempts to be undertaken. Every climber knows that if you die on Everest you stay there.

Instead they can have a nice memorial erected and the money raised can go to his wife and young children.

jasper100 · 21-05-2019 4:37pm

rdwight wrote: »

Because it doesn't say that on the gofundme page.

However, I agree with you that the thread should be closed to new posts.

There have been no developments for several days (apart from the gofundme total ticking along). All the points that need to be made have been made.

I agree with many of the points made about parental responsibility, the disingenuousness that surrounds charity holidays, and the ethics of pushing for recovering bodies from dangerous places. However, there haven't really been any new points in the last couple of hundred posts and posters are edging towards abusiveness too easily.

There was somebody on here yesterday quoting a source and giving an update of sorts. He seemed to be genuine.

Panrich · 21-05-2019 4:39pm

I really think and hope that the gofundme was hastily set up to satisfy the need to do something in the direct aftermath of the tragedy. I would like to also think that wiser counsel will prevail and the recovery mission will be abandoned. I am unsure what will happen with the monies raised in that scenario. There may be an option to change the gofundme purpose and give people the choice to allow the donated money to go to the new purpose or to withdraw their donation.

jasper100 · 21-05-2019 4:39pm

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

It really is a sad situation but as I had been saying the gofundme is very misleading. I think more needs to be done to regulate this type of fundraisers especially when the amounts are this big.

This particular gofundme states the money is to cover the substantial cost of search and rescue, which we all know won't happen. It also states he was out there raising vital funds for Barretstown, again this is simply not true. The truth of that is any leftover money would be sent to Barretstown of which there was likely to be none.

The go fund me also had a go at his insurance. This situation has occurred many times on Everest, so what insurance policies do and don't cover is widely known.

jasper100 · 21-05-2019 4:40pm

Panrich wrote: »

There may be an option to change the gofundme purpose and give people the choice to allow the donated money to go to the new purpose or to withdraw their donation.

That would be the right thing to do.

Tomw86 · 21-05-2019 5:17pm

The GoFundMe page as it stands is misleading - scam may be a bit too harsh, but it is certainly dishonest if the money goes direct to the family.

retro:electro · 21-05-2019 5:21pm

I think the issue with the GFM for most people is that from the outset, it was assumed that people were donating to a cause that seemed to insist there was a chance of survival. The GFM was set up extremely quickly and gained massive traction. Loads of people I follow were sharing it and it made it to loads of famous people’s instagrams etc where all you had to do was swipe up and add a donation. Usually they’d have something written on screen like “let’s save him” or “give all you can to get him home”, etc etc which the later is a fairly ambiguous statement but with amateurs and inexperienced people reading and donating in the early stages, they’re not going to know there’s very little chance of finding him alive, actually none.

I don’t think the average Joe who donated were aware that their donation to “save” was actually putting multiple other innocent lives at risk, but it’s almost a week on now. I think most people are aware at this stage that this is very much a recovery mission and not a rescue, and signs as by as it seems the donations have slowed down in recent days.
It’s not for me to dictate where the money goes as I haven’t donated but I think funding a search that seriously endangers innocent lives is lunacy. Will there be a GFM set up then to rescue their bodies when they inevitably fail at achieving the impossible. Doubtful.

Tomw86 · 21-05-2019 5:25pm

Money should go to Mr. Lawless's intended charity if there is no search & recovery mission.

I think that's a lot of peoples gripe - he did this for charity and they need to see some of it...

Sephiroth_dude · 21-05-2019 5:41pm

Mod

Just tidied up some posts.

Thread re-opened

beveragelady · 21-05-2019 6:10pm

Scott's diary entry from the day he died seems apt. "We took risks, we knew we took them; things have come out against us, and therefore we have no cause for complaint, but bow to the will of Providence, determined still to do our best to the last."

Ultimate Seduction · 21-05-2019 6:37pm

beveragelady wrote: »

Scott's diary entry from the day he died seems apt. "We took risks, we knew we took them; things have come out against us, and therefore we have no cause for complaint, but bow to the will of Providence, determined still to do our best to the last."

Who's Scott

beveragelady · 21-05-2019 6:38pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Who's Scott

Of the Antarctic.

sullivlo · 21-05-2019 7:10pm

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/body-of-climber-in-group-of-missing-irishman-seamus-lawless-recovered-from-mt-everest-925843.html

Body of Ravi recovered. Rescue turned into recovery.

Blaizes · 21-05-2019 7:27pm

sullivlo wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/body-of-climber-in-group-of-missing-irishman-seamus-lawless-recovered-from-mt-everest-925843.html

Body of Ravi recovered. Rescue turned into recovery.

Removed post, due to misinterpretation.

NIMAN · 21-05-2019 7:30pm

I see it says Mr Lawless was a member of the group that John Delaney died on.

You'd think that would have put the notion of climbing Everest out of his head given his family situation.

tuxy · 21-05-2019 7:31pm

Blaizes wrote: »

Delighted to hear this, a measure of good news for the mans wife and family.

Does he have a wife and family? I can't find any info about him but if he did leave behind a family, are they ok? Do they need any kind of assistance?

Dr Turk Turkelton · 21-05-2019 7:32pm

Tomw86 wrote: »

Yeah, that's what I assumed. I don't know if Trinity would pay out for death in service, or if what he was doing was backed by them - I would think there is more chance of that though then any insurance policy though.

Would it be terribly cynical to suggest that perhaps that the death is service benefit was to be the insurance policy?
Obviously he knew that no insurance company would cover him so say he was doing it as an act of charity for sick kids and TCD would have to give it their tacit approval because who doesn't want to make sick kids better?
The worst does come to pass and obviously with the tacit approval the death in service benefit is paid out.
Someone alluded to 500k earlier in the thread for that so it would be one hell of a good policy.
I would imagine it would also be tax free whereas the go fund me will be taxed as income I'd imagine.
Just a theory.

tuxy · 21-05-2019 7:33pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I see it says Mr Lawless was a member of the group that John Delaney died on.

You'd think that would have put the notion of climbing Everest out of his head given his family situation.

Mr Lawless didn't have the experience that many experts would recommend to take on Everest.
I think you mean Mr Hanna who has climbed Everest several times.

Blaizes · 21-05-2019 7:36pm

tuxy wrote: »

Blaizes wrote: »

Delighted to hear this, a measure of good news for the mans wife and family.

Does he have a wife and family? I can't find any info about him but if he did leave behind a family, are they ok? Do they need any kind of assistance?

Trying to delete my post - apologies I misinterpreted / misread the news story.

jasper100 · 21-05-2019 7:36pm

Another misleading article, it says he did it to raise €25000 for charity. This charity nonsense just doesn't cut it. His holiday would have cost in the region of €50K. Tacking on a charity is a means of boosting peoples profiles towards getting sponsorship to help pay for and justify their holiday.

No amount of window dressing will hide the fact that this guy was quite the idiot. He left his young family to go on a personal ego boosting adventure knowing full well he could end up dead. He didn't bother with an 8000M+ warmup climb and the mountain found him out.

Everest

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