Off Topic Discussion

ASOT · 17-05-2019 8:27am

Ush1 wrote: »

I must be cynical. If he is buying those houses outright and giving them to those people that's a great act of generosity.

I wonder though is he selling the houses to the council or renting the houses out under the HAP scheme?

Even if it's the latter it's a hell of a good thing to do that he doesn't have to do at all.

He gets well deserved flac for certain things and rightly so but hopefully he gets the recognition for this he deserves. It isn't the first time he done something for the homeless situation Ireland either and I'd imagine he does alot that goes unreported as it seems to be something he genuinely cares about.

Donald Trump · 17-05-2019 10:54am

I wouldn't make assumptions either way. Not really any info in that post about the houses:

3 bedroom houses, designated for families that currently reside in hotels around the capital, without a home to call their own.

Could just mean that those were the conditions of the planning permission. Not that any one person designated them as such unilaterally. Or as someone else mentioned, there might be schemes where developers put up the capital and build with a contract to let to Council.

Ush1 · 17-05-2019 11:06am

ASOT wrote: »

Even if it's the latter it's a hell of a good thing to do that he doesn't have to do at all.

He gets well deserved flac for certain things and rightly so but hopefully he gets the recognition for this he deserves. It isn't the first time he done something for the homeless situation Ireland either and I'd imagine he does alot that goes unreported as it seems to be something he genuinely cares about.

If it's the latter it's not a charitable exercise, it's for profit. Nothing wrong with that, people need homes and businesses need to make money but I'm not sure what way his social media post is trying to frame it.

bmcc10 · 17-05-2019 11:08am

From building houses to the bighouse the next day

Mellor · 17-05-2019 11:19am

Ush1 wrote: »

If it's the latter it's not a charitable exercise, it's for profit.

Not really.
Social/Affordable house isn't really profitable. Which is why no developers target the backlog on the waiting list. Probably doing well to break even, unless Dublin costs have changed since I left.

But if a "developer" was willing to make a loss from the start.You could achieve much more with a $200k loss than you ever would with a $200k donation to a charity.

Ush1 · 17-05-2019 11:33am

Mellor wrote: »

Not really.
Social/Affordable house isn't really profitable. Which is why no developers target the backlog on the waiting list. Probably doing well to break even, unless Dublin costs have changed since I left.

But if a "developer" was willing to make a loss from the start.You could achieve much more with a $200k loss than you ever would with a $200k donation to a charity.

Who says the housing is social or affordable? I can tell you renting to the council under the HAP scheme is profitable as I know a few landlords with HAP tenants.

Even if the council purchased the houses outright from McGregor he would still make a profit easily.

Mellor · 17-05-2019 12:04pm

Ush1 wrote: »

Who says the housing is social or affordable? I can tell you renting to the council under the HAP scheme is profitable as I know a few landlords with HAP tenants.

HAP is a form of social housing. But HAP is a contribution for normal properties.
Seems unlikely to be 8 normal houses for anyone.

Even if the council purchased the houses outright from McGregor he would still make a profit easily.

1. Build some houses
2. Sell to council
3. Profit

If it were that easy we'd all be millionaires.

Ush1 · 17-05-2019 12:30pm

Mellor wrote: »

HAP is a form of social housing. But HAP is a contribution for normal properties.
Seems unlikely to be 8 normal houses for anyone.

The ownership of the property is not socialised, the payment for rent is. It is a private landlord. Why do you think HAP is such a controversial scheme? People have accused that it's a government handout to private landlords.

Mellor wrote: »

1. Build some houses
2. Sell to council
3. Profit

If it were that easy we'd all be millionaires.

It's obviously not "that easy", do you have the capital to build houses or purchase land to begin with? You can apply this logic to any business.

Go to the property forum, you'll read many threads were people have been outbid on houses by the local council.

Donald Trump · 17-05-2019 12:56pm

Mellor wrote: »

HAP is a form of social housing. But HAP is a contribution for normal properties.
Seems unlikely to be 8 normal houses for anyone.

1. Build some houses
2. Sell to council
3. Profit

If it were that easy we'd all be millionaires.

Do you have access to the capital to purchase the sites, and build the houses?

Developers who made the big money during the boom, the likes of your man Johnny Ronan or Sean Dunne etc. are not geniuses (genii?) - they just have the contacts and knowledge which allow them to get access to capital to build.

For a "normal" person, if you do happen to have a spare million quid knocking about, you might not want to take the risk of putting it all in the one basket. If you have tens of millions of your own money, or a million quid of the Bank's money, you won't care so much about the risk.

Mellor · 17-05-2019 1:04pm

Ush1 wrote: »

The ownership of the property is not socialised, the payment for rent is. It is a private landlord. Why do you think HAP is such a controversial scheme? People have accused that it's a government handout to private landlords.

That's exactly what I described.

And like I said, there are no HAP properties. You can't build houses for HAP.
So that's unlikely to be what it is.

It's obviously not "that easy", do you have the capital to build houses or purchase land to begin with? You can apply this logic to any business.

And if have the capital the only obstacle to making a profit, it would be easy to get a loan.

Go to the property forum, you'll read many threads were people have been outbid on houses by the local council.

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm aware the council buy private houses.
That doesn't mean a developer can offload to the council for guaranteed profit.

Anyway, we've no details in the above. Pointless speculating.
Maybe they're all actors.

Mellor · 17-05-2019 1:12pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

For a "normal" person, if you do happen to have a spare million quid knocking about, you might not want to take the risk of putting it all in the one basket. If you have tens of millions of your own money, or a million quid of the Bank's money, you won't care so much about the risk.

There's no risk if it's a guaranteed profit!

But that's the point.
It's not guaranteed, it's not that easy, hence we're not all millionaires.

Ush1 · 17-05-2019 1:14pm

Mellor wrote: »

That's exactly what I described.
And like I said, there are no HAP properties. You can't build houses for HAP.
So that's unlikely to be what it is.

No you said it's a form of social housing.
You can build a group of houses and contact the housing authority re HAP and they will snap your hand off. Doesn't matter they aren't "HAP properties", they can easily be built with the view of renting them via the HAP scheme.

This has zero bearing on your original claim of it not being profitable.

Mellor wrote: »

And if have the capital the only obstacle to making a profit, it would be easy to get a loan.

Genuinely confused by this sentence.

Mellor wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm aware the council buy private houses.
That doesn't mean a developer can offload to the council for guaranteed profit.

That's very different to what you said previously. Nothing in life is guaranteed, my point is that you can get very good money by selling properties to local authorities and of course make a profit.

Donald Trump · 17-05-2019 2:08pm

Mellor wrote: »

There's no risk if it's a guaranteed profit!

But that's the point.
It's not guaranteed, it's not that easy, hence we're not all millionaires.

Surely you understand basic risk diversification? i.e. "Don't put all your eggs in the same basket"

If all you have is one-million, don't put it all into the same thing whether that be houses or bank shares or shares in Microsoft.

If you have access to the capital, and spread it around, it substantially reduces the risk.

The man has capital. Fair play to him. Suppose he has 30m in the bank. And suppose you have 300k in the bank. Him investing 1m in those houses would be the same risk as you investing 10k. (And to be honest, that isn't strictly true as your risk appetite is probably less than his. What I mean by that is that you might have less capacity to absorb a 50% or 5k loss than he has to absorb a 500k loss). He's not being Mother Theresa because he invested in some houses (possibly with tenants lined up and organized through government schemes). He is right to invest his money though. It's exactly what he should be doing.

Mellor · 17-05-2019 2:09pm

Ush1 wrote: »

No you said it's a form of social housing.

It is a form of social housing.

HAP Fact sheet
The very first sentence says;

"HAP is a form of social housing support provided by all local authorities."

You can build a group of houses and contact the housing authority re HAP and they will snap your hand off. Doesn't matter they aren't "HAP properties", they can easily be built with the view of renting them via the HAP scheme.

No you can't. You can't offer HAP properties to the council. They don't place tenants. They have nothing to do with renting them out.

"HAP recipients must find their own accommodation in the private rented market".

That's very different to what you said previously. Nothing in life is guaranteed, my point is that you can get very good money by selling properties to local authorities and of course make a profit.

As I explained. I'm aware it's possible to sell to the council for a profit.
That's not the same as speculatively developing council properties.

I think I the horse is flogged to death at this point.

Ush1 · 17-05-2019 2:23pm

Mellor wrote: »

It is a form of social housing.
HAP Fact sheet
The very first sentence says;

"HAP is a form of social housing support provided by all local authorities."

Social housing support does not equal social housing.

Mellor wrote: »

No you can't. You can't offer HAP properties to the council. They don't place tenants. They have nothing to do with renting them out.

"HAP recipients must find their own accommodation in the private rented market".

They will often try and find places for people on the homeless list if people complain they can't find accommodation.

Again, this all has no relation to the profitability claim made by you.

Mellor wrote: »

As I explained. I'm aware it's possible to sell to the council for a profit.
That's not the same as speculatively developing council properties.

I think I the horse is flogged to death at this point.

I said:

"I wonder though is he selling the houses to the council or renting the houses out under the HAP scheme?"

You said in reply:

"Social/Affordable house isn't really profitable."

It clearly can be profitable.

Building for profit is speculation to some degree, again, as is any other business venture. It's not a very complicated concept.

Mellor · 17-05-2019 2:37pm

The phrase "Isn't really profitable" doesn't precisely mean "can't ever make a profit".
You're intelligent enough to understand the difference. So I think we can leave it there.

Ush1 · 17-05-2019 2:45pm

Mellor wrote: »

The phrase "Isn't really profitable" doesn't precisely mean "can't ever make a profit".
You're intelligent enough to understand the difference. So I think we can leave it there.

So what was the point you were making then?

I said I wonder is McGregor is selling the houses to the council or going to take on tenants via the HAP scheme, both ventures can easily turn a profit as opposed to a completely altruistic venture like gifting someone a house(no profit).

Mellor · 17-05-2019 2:59pm

it's not confined to being a complete giveaway or a profit driven business. There is a middleground.
But I said that above.
And I don't see the point in continuing to go in circles, so I'm done.

Ush1 · 17-05-2019 3:11pm

Mellor wrote: »

it's not confined to being a complete giveaway or a profit driven business. There is a middleground.

Hence I said:

"Nothing wrong with that, people need homes and businesses need to make money"

Again, not sure what you're trying to add?

My comment was how it was being framed on social media.

If Johnny Ronan or Donald Trump were posting that I can imagine them being torn to shreds as to how they were only doing it for their own ends.

Donald Trump · 17-05-2019 4:51pm

Ush1 wrote: »

If Johnny Ronan or Donald Trump were posting that I can imagine them being torn to shreds as to how they were only doing it for their own ends.

Oi! Feck off including me in with that Ronan fella

ASOT · 17-05-2019 9:07pm

Looking for ways fight is back, Erik Silva's brother looks a beast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqBOHO0Wod0

ASOT · 20-05-2019 6:05pm

Artem Paulie presser starting now in a few

https://www.fite.tv/watch/bkfc-6-press-conference/2ownf/

xtal191 · 20-05-2019 7:25pm

Classy

Axwell · 20-05-2019 7:26pm

Paulie still going on about Conor and the sparring session. Artem talking first and saying nothing about Paulie was a bit foolish on his part, left himself open to all Paulies abuse then when he had the mic. Will be interesting to see how it goes down if/when they get in the ring.

Tazzimus · 20-05-2019 7:31pm

That's a very large black dude at the back of all that..
I know it's highly unlikely but I'd love Artem to absolutely starch Paulie in the first few minutes.

ASOT · 20-05-2019 7:33pm

xtal191 wrote: »

Classy

Scumbag, that big nose of his will get broken.

20-05-2019 7:58pm

Artem's hands looked broken after his bareknuckle fight.

I know that he said they weren't but they way they ballooned up like that... usually indicates a facture. I saw a picture of him last week and again .. looked like i'd expect a month removed from a bad break. Swolen back of the hand and his last two knuckles not visible at all from a clenched fist.

Is BKFC properly sanctioned, like with announced & enforced medical suspensions ?

ASOT · 25-05-2019 7:13pm

Posted it in the McGregor thread but I'll throw it here aswell, just watching this on Gaethje. Very good short doc. I still can't get over him not using his wrestling considering how good he is. Short clip at the end of his first amateur fight, He got it after agreeing with his wrestling coach to keep his gpa up in return for a fight after meeting rashad and a few more lads in the gym and wanting to fight. He goes in with 0 technique and hit two monster slams on the lad. Well worth the watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tooHXjrwrtk

Brussels Sprout · 26-05-2019 9:30pm

Paddy Holohan topped the poll in Tallaght earlier and was elected as a councillor to South County Dublin council:

https://twitter.com/KennyAKE/status/1132697195562569728

Zero-Cool · 26-05-2019 9:34pm

Absolutely beaming for Paddy, seems like a genuine guy who would be passionate about fighting for the locals.

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