Personal Security on Dart trains.

Stephen15 wrote: »

I've seen a few intimidating/undesirable looking characters on public transport over the years but I've never seen any bring harm on me or any of my fellow passengers. Of course for a woman on her own or an older person they may fear these undesirables but you can't really prosecute them just for their looks.

Agreed 100%, but these lads were groping and abusing kids. There was no problems with their looks.

Stephen15 wrote: »

I personally don't think a transport police would do much more than the Gardai do right now to prevent crime and anti social behaviour on public transport. If the scum see transport police on a train they'd probably just wait for the next one to cause trouble.

I see where you're coming from, but transport police could be autonomous and don't have to deal with traffic, gangland crime, rural crime, break ins, ATM crime, etc... they're concentrated and trained with collaboration with American and other European nations for transport policing.

Stephen15 wrote: »

It would seem some of these incidence are spontaneous aswell especially if they are happening on off peak and in areas that wouldn't be assoicated with high levels of anti social behaviour so they wouldn't all nessecarily fall victim to undercover sting operations.

Fair point, but, it would seem so, but there's continuous problems on certain LUAS lines that need attention. A properly trained transport police, like they have in a lot of medium sized cities whom are well versed in the law, know exactly what to do and where to do it would be welcomed by the more vulnerable commuter or tourist, be them the elderly, younger users or mothers with kids. Off peak or on peak.

Sam Russell wrote: »

The article, taken at face value, suggests that the female is not an 'aul one' but a young woman. She was threatened by talk of how she would look naked, and it could be judged assaulted by one of the young males impeding her exit from the seat.

I think any young female would be intimidated by the behaviour described. The fact they were smoking and drinking, both prohibited, would reinforce the idea that she was intended to feel the intimidation.

How can anyone defend such behaviour?

Noones gonna defend that behaviour if anything if the yobs in question are the usual type of knuckle dragging vermin wasters there should be ways of prosecuting and removing them.

The problem when it comes down to it was that stations were unmanned which allowed the vermin to get a foothold and it's only gotten worse as these scum have gotten more braver, brazen and agressive because they know they'll get away with it.

Only way this will ultimately get sorted is that anti-scumbag laws were brought in that the guards would be able to enforce and a judiciary that would stop with this revolving door nonsense and enforce harsh penalties expecially on violent types.

Get Guardian Angels, like NYC subway

John_Rambo wrote: »

The two lads would have overpowered me easily, they rough as f**k, big & gnarly but they were drunk and taken aback from my role play and alleged familiarity with the kids. All ended well, but it could have played out worse.

They might have recognised you from your films and knew well enough to stay away!

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Is there a problem with sexual harassment and groping on trains in Ireland?

Of course there is a problem with it. I don't know how anyone could think it's ok. You shouldn't do it. Full stop.

Perception is important here.

Even if in the OP she made her experience out to be more than it was every time these increasing numbers of articles appear it drives people away from public transport for obvious reasons

Nobody wants to put up with this stuff.

Use the car instead.

That's the practical effect.

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Nothing happened to the sheltered auld wan in the article but she felt the need to compose an article about it anyway. Has she ever been on the underground after a football match in London, a deserted Bronx subway car in NY or the Metro in LA when two factions are warring? all those cities have transport police by the way, and ****e still happens. It's reality of life in a city. Head forward, earphones in, mind your own business.

To the poster who was groped; report that to your local Gardai no matter how long ago this awful incident happened. Darts have good CCTV coverage and the perv could be identified as it's likely you aren't the first person they've tried this on with. Guards take this sort of stuff very seriously.

Crime happens in New York, Crime happens in Oslo and Stockholm.


Crime happens everywhere therefore we should give up is nonsense attitude.
Crime is LOWER in those ^ three than Dublin because they have one or both of the following:
-Consequences for committing a crime, so even career criminals are hesitant to do something half the time if it's not 'worth it'

-Some kind of rehab and restorative justice which Scandinavia does very well


Ireland has neither, we just give them a suspended sentence and let them go...that's it....that's our whole system.




As to the woman I'm a big very fit guy and I've felt intimidated in those situations where they are all sitting around you talking to you in a suggestive intimidating way. Even when you could easily physically deal with them it's still unerving because you don't want to have to get into something where you have to hurt people.


Breaking the rules re smoking and drinking should get you a years ban from PT and if you break the ban you get fined x% of your income or dole, they will soon stop risking 100euro off their dole for the sake of waiting a few minutes to drink or have a smoke, with a rule that if you are old enough to commit the crime you are old enough to take the punishment, if you are under 18 the parents money gets hit, and won't think it's worth the risk to engage in antisocial behavior if a policy like this was combined with a transport police presence.




It makes me so angry there are people out there who are desperate for a medical card, we can obviously use a transport police, and the govt is seriously talking about 6billion euro in tax cuts to buy the next f----king election!!!! Do you know what the ENTIRE GARDA BUDGET is? Just over 1b..do you know what an Irish NHS would cost? around 6b the estimate is, we could easily EASILY fund a new transport police and proper rehab facilities and new prisons, but they think people want that extra 30euro spending money MORE (thankfully polls show a small majority want Public Service improvements more than tax cuts but it's still depressing).


It's not a matter of not affording it it's a matter of political and popular will, which do you want more.

We could merge the airport/port police into any TransitPolice.


Feeding DART CCTV into the existing Garda control center (or better into a TP central control center) is easily done we already do something similar with the emergency management center.
There is no technological obstacle to this, just a matter of a little more investment.


Facial recognition tech exists too, the typical civil liberties objections to this are two fold:


1. False positives, ok well dispatch TP to the area where the system thinks the person whos banned is, compare their face to the file photo on their phone and now you eliminate that problem.


2. Tracking. Your images are only stored in the system if you are in front of the courts, problem solved, no Chinese style tracking or 'social score'.


The reason I think we need TP rather than security is simple: powers.


Security have the same powers as ordinary citizens:
-They can eject a trespasser
-They can defend themselves and others from attack and use reasonable force to retaliate and contain/deter attack from another
-They have the same citizens arrest power under section 4 of the Criminal Law Act ie if you reasonably suspect someone has committed a crime you can detain them if you immediately contact the cops to hand them over.


The biggest difference is search power, the cops have broad (imo with regard to the drugs laws too broad) search powers under the drugs laws and powers under the public order act to order you to leave and stay out of an area, and other such powers security do not have, security are not permitted to carry incapacitation spray, batons, or firearms or tazers all of which are considered offensive illegal weapons for you and me to carry with us, theres a litany of other powers they have security don't but those are just the biggest examples.


We can help fund it with a charge on the tickets but it can be primarily funded by central taxation easily.


People have pointed out the problem of Garda officers assigned to districts...they are not ALL restricted that way, there are national taskforces like the Special Detective Unit (aka Special Branch), the Regional Support Units (local swats basically) there is no reason a Garda national transport unit could not do this too. Contrary to what Francis Fitzgerald said during the whistleblower tribunal, the Garda Act has a provision which says the Minister can order (with govt approval) the Guards to do anything they want, they can also change their deployment, and change their priorities, goals, the works.


There are no real barriers to this, there is just no urgency because the people in charge of all this don't use PT and don't have to live in neighbourhoods ridden with ASB so they don't get how serious an issue it is.