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Tracing family in cork questions...

  • 06-07-2011 12:45pm
    #1
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭


    I've been dipping in and out of the online census for a few months now, I think I have my grandmothers family but can't be sure...

    We know both my grandparents dates of deaths so would this be enough to get their death certificates and if we did would it give us anymore information on it like date of birth so we could get birth certs??

    I've seen an archive office in great william o brien street in cork being mentioned, I'm in cork so what records does the office hold does anyone know???


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Comments

  • #2
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    When did your grandparents die?
    If it is pre-1958 we can help you find the death index reference online and then you can just order those certs. If it is more recent, you can go into that register office in cork and get the certs that way (name, place and date of death will be enough for them to find it).

    Death certs pre-2008 do not have DOBs. You can use the census combined with online indexes to narrow down a list of probable birth certs. If you have a read of the sticky at the top of the forum, it gives full details of what's on each type of cert and how to use the indexes.

    A marriage cert yields the most information and is easiest to narrow down online. If you know both your grandparents birth names (ie, grandmothers maiden name too), an approximate year of marriage and the location, post them up and we'll help you find the index reference so you can order their marriage cert. That will have their fathers' names, so then you should be able to confirm the census records.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #3
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Thanks pinkypinky

    My grandfather died in 1964 my grandmother in 1994, I've been quizzing my mother again today and she knows her dad died when he was 49 so that gives him a year of birth as 1915 and he was born in may so getting there, she also remembered 6 of his siblings names too so more info once again...

    She knows her mothers fathers name too but not entirely sure of her mothers mothers name, my grandmother was born in 1912 and theres a name that matches my grandmothers father pretty much where my mother thinks they came from too that has him at 19 in 1911 which if it's him means he married my grandmothers mother either in 1911 or 1912, my grandmother was born at the end of 1912.... but we don't know anything other than a possible first name for my grandmothers mother....

    We don't know when my grandparents got married either but the oldest in my mothers family turned 70 this year so I'm assuming it could be around that time which could be 1940...

    Grandfathers name, Tomas O Sullivan Grandmothers Maiden name Ann O Shea, possibly married 1940 or beforehand, in around the city centre as far as we know.. not sure if that info will help or not...


  • #4
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    dido2 wrote: »
    Thanks pinkypinky
    Grandfathers name, Tomas O Sullivan Grandmothers Maiden name Ann O Shea, possibly married 1940 or beforehand, in around the city centre as far as we know.. not sure if that info will help or not...

    Just for clarity: in Cork?

    Please don't take any ages as gospel. People would get them wrong. Some examples from my own family:

    Grandmother died 2004 - age incorrect on death cert
    Her father died 1929 - she actually told me the wrong year
    Her grandfather records his own daughter and son in law's ages incorrectly on the census, as well as how long he has been married.
    Great-great grandfather recorded as single aged 40 on census in London, when he was in fact 50, married and a grandfather! Family was in Limerick, he was an MP.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #5
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Name: Anne Shea
    Registration District: Cork
    Event Type: MARRIAGES
    Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1940
    Volume Number: 5
    Page Number: 83

    Name: Thomas O'Sullivan
    Registration District: Cork
    Event Type: MARRIAGES
    Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1940
    Volume Number: 5
    Page Number: 83

    Here's one match.
    There's no other obvious matches but if you want to doublehcheck:
    http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#surname=o%27sullivan&toYear=1940&alivePlaceLoc1=Cork%2C%20Ireland&placeId=8003246&p=recordResults&givenName=tomas&year=1935&searchType=close

    http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#searchType=close&p=recordResults&placeId=8003246&givenName=ann&surname=o%27shea&toYear=1940&alivePlaceLoc1=Cork%2C%20Ireland&year=1935

    You want to get it match in registration district, year, quarter of the year, volume and page number.

    If you want to order the above cert, you can do some in writing /fax to the GRO - look at the sticky at the top of the forum for the full details on that.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #6
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Thanks for that!! Now for probably the stupid question what can I do with that info can I go and get a marriage cert with that info??

    Yes in Cork City Centre.....

    From looking around on websites I've found that ages and dates of birth are a bit hit and miss with people!

    So if we were to get their death certs would it give their DOB's or would that have been based on who gave them the info for the death cert??


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  • #7
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055579524

    The sticky I mentioned has all the details - a few posts down on the first page.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #8
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Thanks Pinkypinky, just looking to the thread at the moment.....

    They look like a good match


  • #9
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Another question...

    The entries in both Page Number and Volume number, is there a close link between other records having the same or is it a huge amount of records under these numbers???


  • #10
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I think there's up to 4 marriages recorded on each page but they'll only give you the one with the names you mention. This does mean there's a tiny chance that someone else on that page will have the same name as one of your parties. I've never had this happen to me though.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #11
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Its actually a birth record from 1887 with the same volume number and page number as the 2 links you posted above for my grandparents...

    It just caught my eye


    name: Margaret O'Shea
    registration district: Cork
    event type: BIRTHS
    registration quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1887
    estimated birth year:
    age (at death):
    mother's maiden name:
    film number: 101061
    volume number: 5
    page number: 83
    digital folder number: 4193975
    image number: 00666


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  • #12
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    I believe that marriages were kept in separate registers - i.e. just 2 to 4 marriages per page (no births or deaths mixed in). The register pages have pre-printed forms for entering the details.

    I would think that birth record record you have found is an unusual coincidence.


    Shane


  • #13
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I'd agree with Shane there - just a coincidence.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #14
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Thanks shanew and pinkypinky, thought as much but thought I'd check just in case...

    Another question, when it comes to burials, when you've grave plot with different suranames on it, is there any pattern as to who is often buried with who, I think I've read that sometimes the woman will be buried with her own family even if she has married...

    both my grandparents are buried together, but there are 2 others buried there, one with the same surname as my grandfather so possibly family member, maybe mother, and then theres another man who was buried in 185? couldn't read anymore from the grave stone....


  • #15
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Graves were resold over time if no one was maintaining them so you can get strangers in the same one but I'm not familiar with any particular usage patterns. Never heard of a married woman being buried with her own family.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #16
    CeannRua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭CeannRua


    I don't think you can say burials followed a definitive logic - it is more of a personal thing. In my own family it was sometimes down to there being a space in a grave / plot or someone expressing a desire not to be buried alone. One of my gg grandmothers is buried with her own family.


  • #17
    debarran
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭debarran


    Hi

    My grandmother is buried with her parents, I believe it was because she died very young (36) and possibly because this grave was already there - as money was scarce I imagine my grandfather had no money to buy a new grave. He is buried on his own in a different graveyard but is not on his own as his son and daughter are buried in the same graveyard.


  • #18
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Graves were resold over time if no one was maintaining them so you can get strangers in the same one but I'm not familiar with any particular usage patterns. Never heard of a married woman being buried with her own family.

    We had some discussion touching on that a while ago: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056069528

    My grandmother died young, and I think the grave where she was buried belonged to her people: her father was buried in it later, but not her husband, who went into a new grave that was later shared by his second wife.

    There is a sean nós song that I very much like: Amhrán Mhúinse. It appears to be rooted in reality, and the name of the composer is known. It is her deathbed request to be brought back to her home place and be buried with her own people, and not with the strangers among whom she lived with her husband. [She didn't get her wish!]


  • #19
    Wyldwood
    Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    I don't think it was too unusual to bury people apart in past times.
    My two sets of grandparents are buried apart. My paternal grandparents are in the same graveyard but in different plots. I'm presuming that is because the plot my grandfather is in was full when my grandmother died years later. He was buried with my grandmother's family (parents etc.).
    My other grandparents are in different graveyards. My grandfather died young and was taken back to his family grave, my grandmother probably didn't have the means to buy a new plot as she had a young family at the time and had to go to work to support them after his death. When she died she was buried in a new plot in a city graveyard now occupied by her daughter and son-in-law also.


  • #20
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Thanks for all the replies!

    I've spent hours in the past days looking through all the online resources, I think now I have found records for all of my own grand parents and also my husbands grandparents, both of his grandmothers had surnames that weren't all that common so a lot easier to pin down, I also found marriage records for both mine and my husbands grandparents too, so some fun and expensive times ahead!!

    Anyone who has use the GRO option of ordering records how long does it take to get them once you have the name, volume number and page number, going to do it this morning.... and also is it just best that I print out all of the names, volume numbers etc and attach it to the application form??


  • #21
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I have faxed them my order before with my credit card details on it - always been fine. I fill in what I can on the form (obviously set up for living or recently dead people with PPS numbers, etc) and enclose a cover note with the page/vol details from Familysearch.

    Make sure you only tick the box for the cheap copy certs at €6 (this includes a search fee at €2 which technically you shouldn't pay because you've given them the full details but I always pay it anyway.

    Normally it'll be less than 10 working days but I don't know if there's any particular backlog at the minute.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • #22
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Thanks Pinkypinky

    If you've got a good few to get do you put them all on individual applications or can you do it in bulk with just one application form with credit card details on it??


  • #23
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭kilsmum


    Pinkypinky,

    Just to let you know the first time I sent off for certs to the GRO I sent a cheque covering €6 per cert to include the search fee (even though I had all the information like you).

    A couple of weeks later I got a postal order from the GRO refunding me the difference between the €6 and the €4 - since then I just send the €4 per cert.


    Kilsmum


  • #24
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    dido2 wrote: »
    Thanks Pinkypinky

    If you've got a good few to get do you put them all on individual applications or can you do it in bulk with just one application form with credit card details on it??


    I just do one with form with all details on my cover note.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #25
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Thanks kilsmum and pinkypinky

    I had sent them an email last week and they said it was €4 per copy because I already had the details...

    Just putting them altogether now and will pop them in the post today, will be like a child waiting on the post for the next week then!!!

    We're all enjoying it though, had my mother in law going through all of her family at the weekend and it's just funny what comes up...


  • #26
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Genealogy can be a cheap hobby!


  • #27
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Well so far I consider it cheap anyway!! The entertainment factor for me is great, my 3 young kids might not agree though!!!!

    Have 4 Marriage certs now and 4 birth certs that i'd be certain are right due to right maiden names that aren't the usual names and also right dates so let the fun begin!!!


  • #28
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    Well got them all back in the post today, both of my own sets of grand parents Marriage records are correct, not entirely sure about my husbands grand parents..

    My Grandmother on my fathers side it has always been said she was in an orphanage, but my dad says they were always told to be quite when they asked questions, but theres a name listed for her father on her marriage cert but he's listed as dead so that all seems right, but we kind of feel there might be something more, but next question is are records connected, I have my grandparents dates of birth, date of marriage and date of death, would that be enough to get their birth certs??
    I got 2 possible ones for my mothers parents but I know one of them isn't right, but I'm not sure of the other one, not convinced it is though either, but would like to get all grand parents birth certs to get their mothers names as I have their fathers names now...


  • #29
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    The records are not connected (they are nowadays but even that is dependent on the informant giving the information).

    Use the LDS index to find the possibles - if you have the exact name and birthdate you should be able to narrow it down reasonably well and then order. If there's more than one possibility, unfortunately you'll just have to guess or order them all.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #30
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    This is where the problems lie, I can't find any major links for Births for any of my grandparents only my maternal grandmother which I did get but I'm none the wiser really because its a year later than we thought she was born, fathers name has an O where he doesn't in her marriage cert but I know both of these things are considered variables anyway, last grandparent to die was in 2003, then 1999, 1994 and 1964, what are the chances of being able to get their birth certs based on the info I have that I don't think is right in terms of the year any of them were born....


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  • #31
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    A year out and an O are sufficiently minor - it's probably her.

    You have your grandparents' marriage certs - the ages are more likely to be correct on them than later on. If it says full for the age, that's not going to be helpful though. You could possibly check electoral registers? I'm not sure of the survival rates for Cork but the library would be the placed to go. People had to be 21 to vote until the 70s. I presume they're all too young for the 1911 census?

    If you want to post details, maybe we can help?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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