Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Sand wrote: »

Are you American? Did you know Floyd personally? Or are you just this agitated about the event because the media says you ought to be?

Where was this energy when 7 year old Emily Jones was practically decapitated in front of her parents? Of course the media framing on that was very different. No systematic issue to investigate there.

No I'm not, but let's not deflect with the whataboutism and stick to the topic

Sand wrote: »

Where was this energy when 7 year old Emily Jones was practically decapitated in front of her parents? Of course the media framing on that was very different. No systematic issue to investigate there.

She wasn't decapitated. It's funny how you go on about "media framing" while simultaneously posting a conspiracy theory.

extra gravy wrote: »

She wasn't decapitated. It's funny how you go on about "media framing" while simultaneously posting a conspiracy theory.

Practically....

Sand wrote: »

Practically....

I guess we'll see when the inquest is concluded. Not that this has anything to with George Floyd and police brutality in the US.

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Are you actually disputing that this is what these priotests/riots began over following the killing of George Floyd? Because whether you agree with the protesters claims or not, it is well documented has been the primary reason for these protests.

If its well documented, you should have no difficulty defining the systematic racism you are talking about and supporting it with evidence. Right?

If you believe these protests are not about the perceived mistreatment of black people by police and that they instead are about something else, what do you beleive that to be?

Media narratives? Three weeks ago people on this very forum, this very thread, were mocking protests in the US who were calling for an end to COVID lockdown measures. Now the entire narrative is reversed and its fine for large groups of people to gather and mingle. Because the media sets the narrative, and people feel angry about what they're told they should be angry about.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

An update on that, the 75 members of the buffalo tactical response unit have resigned from that unit in support of the two officers who were suspended because of the incident and I've highlighted. So it seems given all the things that have happened and when there is proof of the incident their fellow officers take their side.

The fact that so many of the police officers have that response shows quite clearly who they are. I hear so often from some apologists for the police that well it is just a few bad apples and the vast majority are great. Well no one knows for sure just what percentage of the police are corrupt and or racist and engage in police brutality and or murders etc but it is not IMHO a few bad apples it is IMHO a very significant minority of the police. Then on top of that you have how their unions and leadership almost always close ranks right away after the latest police outrage and look to cover it up or play it down only giving way when they are absolutely forced to such as in the case with the murder of George Floyd.

bad2dabone wrote: »

This is a pretty terrible post.

People are agitated about the murder of George Floyd because it was the latest in a long line of police killings of black people. Police are supposed to serve the public, not murder people in their custody.

So you're only concerned about black people being killed by police? US police shot dead 172 white people and 88 black people in 2020 but its black killings specifically that bother you. US police can kill people in the course of their job, under rules and policies. And they can be killed - 22 killed by gunfire alone in 2020.

The reality is people are mad about this because that is the media narrative.

duploelabs wrote: »

Energised? I don't think you know me so what makes you judge what I am or not energised about.

I'm judging your posts - Judge Dredd, and similar hysteria.

I am commenting on your attitude that no matter what crime a citizen suspectedly commits, that you believe a level of force is warrented that, if it occurs, the suspects death is an unfortunate incident.

Or is that just because they're black

I believe that if police are arresting a non-compliant suspect, then they should follow their training to restrain and complete the arrest of that suspect.

What will exonerate or condemn the police officer in this case is to the extent he followed his training. Keeping Floyd restrained despite him agreeing to get in the car was unnecessary and wrong in my view. But it'll go down to the expert witnesses in the trial. Not you, and not me.

Sand wrote: »

The reality is people are mad about this because that is the media narrative.

That's too.simplistic.

In the US it appear pent-up energy and anxiety and rage have spilled out. The handling of COVID-19 laid bare the nation’s racial inequities, and with so many unemployed George Floyds murder has been spark at a time when many people have time on their hands.

On our side of the world we're watching the social fabric of the United States being pulled in a way that hasn't happened since perhaps the civil rights era.

eire4 wrote: »

The fact that so many of the police officers have that response shows quite clearly who they are. I hear so often from some apologists for the police that well it is just a few bad apples and the vast majority are great. Well no one knows for sure just what percentage of the police are corrupt and or racist and engage in police brutality and or murders etc but it is not IMHO a few bad apples it is IMHO a very significant minority of the police. Then on top of that you have how their unions and leadership almost always close ranks right away after the latest police outrage and look to cover it up or play it down only giving way when they are absolutely forced to such as in the case with the murder of George Floyd.

Its not surprising that they stick together, policing in America is a very tough job, especially with a country where the public is armed to the hilt. I don't think we can fully understand how stressful it must be at times, you can be making life or death decisions on the weekly basis.

I saw the video in question and the elderly man went over very easily, I'm not saying he faked it but it was a surprise to me, one cop goes to help him and seems to have been stopped by another, which is of course wrong as was shoving him.

My point is this latest Floyd case is another bad apple bringing the whole police system under the spot light and now the whole media narrative is the cops in the US are scum, I don't even think that's an exaggeration. There is no doubt the police system there has problems, the training and recruitment need an overhaul but purely from a law of averages aspect there are interactions that go daily between the police and the public we don't see, cases where the cops are in crime ridden areas dealing with very stressful situations with different races and levels of violence.

We have no idea what the good cops have to put up with daily and how after years it can wear you down. Imagine your out there everyday and have been for years being a responsible cop, trying your best and then this latest incident and you have the public in your face telling you that your a racist pos. I'm sure there is a huge felling of frustration within the police who were playing by the rules and they don't agree with the narrative out there.

96 cops died in the line of duty so far this year, it was 147 last year. Its a powder keg right now and I have sympathy for the good cops out there having to be perceived as public enemy number 1 right now.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Its not surprising that they stick together, policing in America is a very tough job, especially with a country where the public is armed to the hilt. I don't think we can fully understand how stressful it must be at times, you can be making life or death decisions on the weekly basis.

I saw the video in question and the elderly man went over very easily, I'm not saying he faked it but it was a surprise to me, one cop goes to help him and seems to have been stopped by another, which is of course wrong as was shoving him.

My point is this latest Floyd case is another bad apple bringing the whole police system under the spot light and now the whole media narrative is the cops in the US are scum, I don't even think that's an exaggeration. There is no doubt the police system there has problems, the training and recruitment need an overhaul but purely from a law of averages aspect there are interactions that go daily between the police and the public we don't see, cases where the cops are in crime ridden areas dealing with very stressful situations with different races and levels of violence.

We have no idea what the good cops have to put up with daily and how after years it can wear you down. Imagine your out there everyday and have been for years being a responsible cop, trying your best and then this latest incident and you have the public in your face telling you that your a racist pos. I'm sure there is a huge felling of frustration within the police who were playing by the rules and they don't agree with the narrative out there.

96 cops died in the line of duty so far this year, it was 147 last year. Its a powder keg right now and I have sympathy for the good cops out there having to be perceived as public enemy number 1 right now.

Ah ok so the old guy decided I am going to take a dive here and crack my head open. Utter nonsense. He is 75 years not some sprightly 30 something guy in his prime. What happened was wrong, the reaction of the police to what was done was worse, the lies issued to excuse their behaviour afterward worse and then the 57 resignations afterward just summed up who these police are and what their mind set is.


No disagreement that being a police officer is a tough job there are lots of tough jobs out here in the world today always have been and always will be. The fact that it is a tough job in no way shape or form can be a justification for the kind of police brutality and violence that exists in the US and has done for so long. The fact that police stick together and turn a blind eye to outrages by fellow police officers is a major part of the problem and no matter how tough the job is that is not an excuse for fellow police siding with those who engage in police brutality and violence even if they did not commit it themselves. That behaviour makes them complicit in police brutality and violence.


Finally I will again reiterate my own opinion that the idea that all this police brutality and violence is just because of a few bad apples is wrong IMHO. Nobody knows just what the numbers are but it is a sizable minority IMHO and it is added to by the police unions, police leadership and fellow police officers who turn a blind, and or who almost always go straight into cover up/lie mode after the latest police outrage.

Sand wrote: »

Are you American? Did you know Floyd personally? Or are you just this agitated about the event because the media says you ought to be

To be honest Sand I get the impression that you're agitated by this because you feel people are saying you ought to be. You seem pissed off with the appropriation of this protest rather than the protest itself.

You haven't made a point other to chip away at notions of murder, rightful protest and now the guys character.

You seem to be just annoyed by whatever your perceive this is but not willing to confront the issue at its heart.

I mean I've read a lot of thoughtful comments by you in these fora regarding the rough deal British working class are getting over the last few years. Surely you can see that US African Americans have a right to be fairly pissed off with the current state if affairs.

Just IMO of course.

StringerBell wrote: »

More rumblings of Republican politicians who won't be supporting the Donald (privately of course and from sources)

Not that it matters really as he will likely have more support from republican politicians thus time than last time but still, it's the base size that matters and how effective he is at suppressing the other side's turnout.

Well it was reported that republican of the vintage who were in congress during the last days of the Nixon presidency, and were said to be "bewildered" by trumps actions around the church photo op.

I also see that tucker carlson aka Fox News are now blaming Jared kushner and say he is leading the dear leader in the wrong direction. I wonder who'll be next for them to blame that isn't Donald trump ?

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well it was reported that republican of the vintage who were in congress during the last days of the Nixon presidency, and were said to be "bewildered" by trumps actions around the church photo op.

I also see that tucker carlson aka Fox News are now blaming Jared kushner and say he is leading the dear leader in the wrong direction. I wonder who'll be next for them to blame that isn't Donald trump ?

His support among Republican voters actually dropped for the first time I have seen it from the usual 95+ approval to 84, overwhelming support of course but still a drop.