Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

HKC VS Siemens App Discussion Stickey Temp

  • 10-03-2015 6:25pm
    #1
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Ok this is the temporary Nest.


    I currently have an android phone.

    I'm running
    Siemens SPC anywhere

    and

    HKC SecureCo

    For the Siemens App.

    I have a Sim card installed and I have it connected to a UPC internet connection. The Sim card costs me any time I get a text back from the panel. It costs me about 15- 20 euro a year

    I don't count the UPC connection carrying phone/internet traffic as resilience, it is a single point of failure. As I have a sim card and a UPC connection, I have two different routes, not three

    On the HKC option I only have a SIM card, the card will pick up the strongest network, if one drops it will move from say Vodafone to three.
    I don't count this as resilience either as its is still a single point of failure. I'm told that this panel can have a module fitted to allow it to take in a phone line. This I would count as an alternative route.


    The siemens App was free I only pay to keep the sim card active. The app would work over my internet connection. Getting the panel to connect over RJ45 to my router was not simple, I didn't do it but it took a little bit of messing around. I pay for my internet connection, if I already have it so it did not cost me more. I text my panel a lot so I pay about 20 euro a year to keep the SIM juiced up

    Installation 2

    HKC app, cost 8 euro one off, yearly maintenance cost on the Sim was 87 euro (maybe it was marked up, that it the supplier business and not really up for discussion)


    Both apps work well.

    The HKC panel could be installed in a house with no internet and its sim will get you going, currently 60-80 euro a year, if you have a phone line in the house some HKC panels can connect to the phone line if you buy a module to do so

    As can the Siemens panel, if you buy the module for a sim card and and spend about 10 or 20 euro a year keeping the card alive you could installed it in a house with no internet and just use the sim to text the panel over and back, if you have the internet you could just connect the panel to your router and watch it that way using the app.


    So these are the costs, they are there to look at not kill each other over.


    Operation

    When the Siemens panel activates I get a text. I can use the app to access the panel, but i get the alert by text, as is stands i need to have the sim card for the notification, I can also reactivate the panel over text, or turn it off. The app provides more detail I can see open zones etc, but I get the alert from a text, I pay for each text the panel sends. I can isolate any zone i want using the app, but not by text

    On the HKC app, I get alerted by the App and I interact with the App. I dont get charged extra for interaction between the panel and the app.

    As it stands I get a log of the activity on the HKC panel, but on this set up I cant see the status of the different zones, I cant seem to isolate a zone or see the status of every zone, maybe I'm using it incorrectly but it does not have the same level of detail on the alarm as the Siemens one does.

    Polling,

    I need some help here, does either app poll the panel, or the other way around?


    As it stands I like the Siemens app as I get the alert via text, if i have no internet connection I can text the panel on or off, I have a little custom app to help, but you can get free text templates that you set up to sent a alarm on or off text.

    If I have the internet I can use the app and isolate a troublesome zone and then reset the alarm.

    Using the HKC app is simple, but if i keep getting issues with a zone , I don't think i can isolate it and arm the rest of the system like i can with the Siemens app.

    I know this is compromising the system. But the alternative is to turn it off ,or go to the panel and isolate the zone at the panel. this is ok if you are near the panel, but not possible if you are not. I may be underselling the HKC app, but I don't think I can isolate a zone using the app. This is very handy if you are not home and want some level of protection.


    When i turn off the data function on my phone, the HKC app stops working
    So does the the Siemens app.

    Having the texting functions each panel has is very handy, as you wont always have the internet


    I know I've made mistakes, so feel free to correct me, and we can come up with a guide that users can use and that we can point people towards and we can also use to avoid more arguments over.


«13456717

Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    There is a free update to the Siemens firmware and app you are running.
    From version 3-6-0 on wards you now get email notifications & remote access is now via a cloud. That means there is no more programming on the router. Even if you were to change ISP the panel would reconnect automatically.
    On your GSM you could also use your SIM card to provide a data connection to give you remote access via a browser/app. You can also set up your GSM to notify you of network fail (polling) . This can be set right down to seconds if your want..
    The only charges on the above would be topping up of your SIM card. I too use this set up and find under €20 a good estimate also.
    Another benefit of the Siemens is you have browser access. If you find yourself without a data connection you can login to SPC Connect from any web browser and any PC. Once logged in you can arm/disarm the system etc. If you wish to do more in-dept work on your system this page can redirect you directly to your panels server. I like this as a feature, because the panel has its own server you know there can never be a charge enforced to connect to your system. Siemens apps are free also.
    The newer app to SPC Anywhere is Called SPC Connect. Feature wise its much the same, but the configuration of this is easier also as you are just logging into SPC Connect so no settings like ports,site IDs or IP addresses.

    PS as there are many panels now offering free apps & remote access over IP could we include all or have a few separate threads?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Include all I'd say


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Excellent opening post Stoner, very detailed and well explained!
    Very few people have first hand experience with both systems.

    It is great to get an unbiased opinion of HKC and Siemens offerings.

    In summary it would seem that the differences are not significant.

    However the importance of acknowledging a single point of failure for both systems can not be overstated.

    My only question can the Siemens system poll?


  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    Not at the moment.
    You can bypass zones on the HKC app. When you go to arm via the app it will announce eg,
    "Zone 3 back door open". You will be prompted to inhibit the zone or cancel. Your installer would have to set" Force Arming to yes " in the arming opt menu for this to show in the app.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    2011 wrote: »

    My only question can the Siemens system poll?

    Yes with the new SPC Connect the panel is polling the server at an interval that can be set by the installer.
    if you have another comms path you can get notification of a network failure.
    GSD also now have this feature.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The Risco range of panels also have IP capability with APP & browser access.
    The Risco app is called iRisco
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.homeguard&hl=en
    https://itunes.apple.com/ie/app/irisco/id462155789?mt=8
    Like Siemens the Risco Apps are free & use of the cloud server is free.
    Also like Siemens you have the ability to connect from any web browser should you be somewhere without a data connection on your phone.
    Notifications are sent via push notifications to the app . You can also set up email alerts.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The GSD i70 systems can also be IP enabled for remote access. With GSD this connection can be via a LAN card or a WiFi card.
    With GSD Apps, remote access and alerts are free.
    Once set up you get free push notifications direct to your phone. At the moment GSD does not have browser access or email alerts.
    The GSD system does have polling at a time set on the app, you will get notifications of any network fails after the set time.
    GSD also can alert of smash & grab style attacks attacks. If, after an entry time start or an alarm activation , the connection to the server is lost, you will get a notification to your phone. As this is sent from their servers once a burglar gains entry he has no means of preventing notifications being sent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Yes with the new SPC Connect the panel is polling the server at an interval that can be set by the installer.
    if you have another comms path you can get notification of a network failure.
    GSD also now have this feature.

    Ok fair enough but will you be notified if all comms paths are down ?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    No notifications but it will show on the app.
    For this feature GSD is the best IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    Ok handy to know.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Diggerdunne


    i was talking to an installer the other day and he said that the siemens doesn't Poll and will only poll when the next update is released next month. He said he thinks the Beta version has polling in it but its not for general use until the release. Is this true?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    3.6.5 is a full release and is available.
    This is released. It is not test software.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Just a few things to add and a quick question about your post Stoner.

    The App for the HKC has a virtual keypad so anything you can do from the keypad you can do on the virtual keypad on the App.

    If a zone is open and you set the system using the virtual keypad the zone will show open on the keypad App.
    To inhibit you would do the same as if you are using the keypad 0 code * 5 (zone number) yes.

    If using the arming templet the app will list the zone or zones open and ask if you want to continue arming.
    This will set the system with the open zone or zones taken out of the system.

    The HKC system polls using the connection to Securecomm, this will be notified to your App.

    The GSM-SC when you turn off the Data on your phone can be set up to send you a text, I have mine set up to do both notification plus text.
    It is a good option as people out of Data coverage or people on holidays abroad may not have the data connection turned on on there phone.
    It is also handy as some people do not have smart phones so they can be set up to receive the text alerts while others use the App.

    This is using the same unit so no need to buy a separate GSM.

    Adding the Wifi card gives a back up to the GSM-SC.
    Using the Wifi card will also allow the same functions as using the GSM-SC.

    You say you have a GSM installed which uses €10-€20 per year.
    Is this using GPRS or just for sending text messages?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭altor


    2011 wrote: »
    My only question can the Siemens system poll?

    The system does not poll.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    Ok fair enough but will you be notified if all comms paths are down ?

    You wont get any notifications if all paths are down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭altor


    i was talking to an installer the other day and he said that the siemens doesn't Poll and will only poll when the next update is released next month. He said he thinks the Beta version has polling in it but its not for general use until the release. Is this true?

    It is on the way but as yet it is not released.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭soSolid


    @Koolkid I'm running 3.6.0 - what's new in 3.6.5?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Nothing that noticeable. But as a rule I'd always update to the latest stable release.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭soSolid


    Cheers, have you a link to it?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    I have PMed you that.
    If you need any help give me a shout.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭soSolid


    Got that, all done now! Cheers.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    altor wrote: »
    The system does not poll.

    Ok I've had a look at this, I'm not 100% but it appears as if there is a new service, not beta for the Siemens panel that allows polling.

    Are you sure Altor that the new available software does not allow polling.

    Is new firmware 3-6-0 & 3-6-5 released and available with polling?

    Koolkid is this beta or is it actually available.

    I assume that updating firmware is something a licensed installer would need to do.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    altor wrote: »
    The App for the HKC has a virtual keypad so anything you can do from the keypad you can do on the virtual keypad on the App.

    If a zone is open and you set the system using the virtual keypad the zone will show open on the keypad App.
    To inhibit you would do the same as if you are using the keypad 0 code * 5 (zone number) yes.

    That is true and that was pointed out to me, however that is handy, its written on the door or the actual RKP too, it is good but not as good as the i/o list the siemens app shows you, on that i can see all the zones on my system and interface with them.

    this does close the gap aright, but its still something you have to know/remember and its not the same as a zone list at your fingertips, but it would certainly save you a trip.

    altor wrote: »

    You say you have a GSM installed which uses €10-€20 per year.
    Is this using GPRS or just for sending text messages?

    I just use it for texting, I also have the panel hooked up to my router


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    KoolKid wrote: »
    3.6.5 is a full release and is available.
    This is released. It is not test software.

    Great stuff, so is there a set of release notes that state it can poll now.


    Also if I upgrade will i lose the use of my X10 units.

    The whole reason I got the siemens (or Europlex panel as it was then was to use x10 for my lights and heating?

    I think I'll forget about polling if I have to change all my X10 units to Siemens switches.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Stoner wrote: »
    Ok I've had a look at this, I'm not 100% but it appears as if there is a new service, not beta for the Siemens panel that allows polling.

    Are you sure Altor that the new available software does not allow polling.

    Is new firmware 3-6-0 & 3-6-5 released and available with polling?

    Koolkid is this beta or is it actually available.

    I assume that updating firmware is something a licensed installer would need to do.

    The system does not poll. Only way of knowing it is down is if you can not get into your App or browser.

    Like yourself you need a second device attached to the system to know of alarm activation's.

    3-6-0 was the beta version, any bugs were updated in version 3-6-5 which is the latest software.

    If you have access to your system and these files which are available on here by request then you can update your system with the latest software.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Evolution1 wrote: »
    When you go to arm via the app it will announce eg,
    "Zone 3 back door open". You will be prompted to inhibit the zone or cancel. Your installer would have to set" Force Arming to yes " in the arming opt menu for this to show in the app.

    really I dont get that, i just get the alert to say that there is an issue,

    ie. "Tamper Zone Back door open"

    I get no invitation to engage with the panel, maybe it is in the set up


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Stoner wrote: »
    That is true and that was pointed out to me, however that is handy, its written on the door or the actual RKP too, it is good but not as good as the i/o list the siemens app shows you, on that i can see all the zones on my system and interface with them.

    this does close the gap aright, but its still something you have to know/remember and its not the same as a zone list at your fingertips, but it would certainly save you a trip.

    The difference is rather than going through the list to see the state of the zones the system will announce to you the open zones and ask if you want to continue arming.

    There are differences tho.

    Stoner wrote: »
    I just use it for texting, I also have the panel hooked up to my router

    The HKC system can have a GSM-Q added to do the same for the same price as you have stated.

    GSM-SC will do Data connection plus these text functions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Stoner wrote: »
    really I dont get that, i just get the alert to say that there is an issue,

    ie. "Tamper Zone Basck door open"

    I get no invitation to engage with the panel, maybe it is in the set up

    That is correct, the installer never set up these options for you.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    altor wrote: »
    The difference is rather than going through the list to see the state of the zones the system will announce to you the open zones and ask if you want to continue arming.
    There are differences tho.

    Fair enough

    I've just tested it.

    Yes I still in work!

    It seems that the prompt comes when you go to reset the alarm, so i can deactivate it remotely and when i go to activate it again i get the prompt.

    On the siemens app, I don't get that prompt, but i do get a look at the state of all the zones, So I'd press zones, see which ones are active (handy) and turn them off.

    So on HKC that is fine if the zone is still open when you are resetting, but if it was an intermittent fault that was gone when I was resetting I would not get the prompt. Then I'd have to inhibit.

    Not the end of the world, down to splitting hairs territory at this stage.

    My own most common activation is a window left open and the inertia setting off by the blind.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Stoner wrote: »
    Great stuff, so is there a set of release notes that state it can poll now.


    Also if I upgrade will i lose the use of my X10 units.

    The whole reason I got the siemens (or Europlex panel as it was then was to use x10 for my lights and heating?

    I think I'll forget about polling if I have to change all my X10 units to Siemens switches.


    Hi Stoner
    There have been 3 releases of the 3-6_* firmware. There was an original beta 3-6-0 this was followed by a release version which was followed by 3-6-5.
    There is a further release due shortly. All these versions poll and will give notifications down a different path if one is available. If you log into the app it will also show you instantly at any time if the panel is off line.
    As this thread is now about all IP systems I would like to take this opportunity to state, if this is is a major requirement for anyone GSD i70 have the best notification system here where they can notify you of network down or suspected smash and grap alerts without the requirement of a second comms path.
    As for your X10. This is still supported with all the usual features like cause and effect, calendars etc...
    I have multiple X10 devices running well on my 5320 along with regular polling backed up by GSM and PSTN.


Advertisement