Armenia and Azerbaijan conflict

Jimbob1977 · 27-09-2020 5:28pm #1

There's been a worrying escalation in the Armenian vs Azerbaijan conflict this morning.

Long story short, the two sides have clashed over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region.

De jure it is part of Azerbaijan; however it is de facto an Armenian enclave with a majority Armenian population.

The Soviet Union put a lid on the conflict, but the two countries have been sniping since independence.

As expected, Turkey supports Azerbaijan. The Turks never acknowledge the Armenian genocide.

Russia, Iran and the European Union have called for cool heads.

There are shades of the Balkans conflict here. A war of culture, ethnicity and religion.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/armenia-azerbaijan-attack-bombing-nagorno-karabakh-clash-b640984.html

BoroMan32 · 27-09-2020 5:30pm

I see Azerbaijan's parliament have declared a ''state of war'' against Armenia.

Manach · 27-09-2020 5:39pm

I remember when the original conflict broke out post fall of the USSR. The fighting was fairly brutal leading to many columns of refugees trying to escape the fighting. Hopefully the regional powers can put a clamp on this before it escalates.

Harry Palmr · 27-09-2020 5:39pm

This is a blast from the past.

Jimbob1977 · 27-09-2020 5:53pm

It's very like the Balkans or Northern Ireland.

Age-old simmering disputes that polarise communities.

Them versus Us

TheBlackPill · 27-09-2020 5:56pm

The poor Armenians, they have lost so much already, genocided, scattered and now this

AMKC · 27-09-2020 7:34pm

I really hope this can be stopped before it escalates into something much bigger say Turkey V Russia etc.
They need to talk over there problems and negotiate not fight over it.

Del.Monte · 27-09-2020 8:03pm

It's all over the BBC World Service - no reportage whatsoever on Irish stations today unless I missed it. It's a dangerous situation with Greece and Turkey (two NATO countries) also again on he brink of open hostilities over gas drilling in the Eastern Med. A conspiracy theorist could be forgiven for thinking that Putin, Erdoğan and Trump cooked it up between them.

Cheerful Spring2 · 27-09-2020 8:07pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

It's all over the BBC World Service - no reportage whatsoever on Irish stations today unless I missed it. It's a dangerous situation with Greece and Turkey (two NATO countries) also again on he brink of open hostilities over gas drilling in the Eastern Med. A conspiracy theorist could be forgiven for thinking that Putin, Erdoğan and Trump cooked it up between them.

Armenia is in a CSTO alliance. It has similar principles in line with the Nato Charter. With CSTO if Armenia triggers it, the Russian Federation Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan. are all obliged to come to its aid during a war. This could get bad since Turkey is backed by Nato and there backing Azerbaijan war here. Armenia president had made allegations Turkish F-16s and drones are now involved. Israel also backs Azerbajan.

It's too early to tel if Russia would commit to war with Turkey here and potentially drag in Nato.

phelixoflaherty · 27-09-2020 8:07pm

https://youtu.be/hd-6WweqD0Y

DraftDodger · 27-09-2020 8:11pm

The human race never learns. Its in our nature to destroy ourselves

Del.Monte · 27-09-2020 8:17pm

DraftDodger wrote: »

The human race never learns. Its in our nature to destroy ourselves

Rubbish, it's a failure of leadership at the top in letting a bunch of fascist thugs get into power. It's not in my nature to want to destroy anything or anybody - I'll make an exception in the case of Putin, Trump, Rocket Man in North Korea, the Turkish, Iranian and Saudi leadership - on a personal basis not their people.

suicide_circus · 27-09-2020 8:19pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Rubbish, it's a failure of leadership at the top in letting a bunch of fascist thugs get into power. It's not in my nature to want to destroy anything or anybody - I'll make an exception in the case of Putin, Trump, Rocket Man in North Korea, the Turkish, Iranian and Saudi leadership - on a personal basis not their people.

Trump has his flaws, oh so many flaws, but warmonger is not one of them, bit of sabre rattling at North Korea aside.

Ten of Swords · 27-09-2020 11:40pm

Prime Minister of Armenia has mobilized the country's military and declared martial law

https://twitter.com/NikolPashinyan/status/1310146071004315648

Yurt2 · 27-09-2020 11:42pm

Azerbaijan will be tooled-up with Israeli weapons kit. Very cosy relationship between Israel and Azerbaijan.

Visited Armenia a number of years ago, stunning country that is off most people's radar. The women there are flat-out stunning. It's also a country that if things went their way could take off economically. Very educated population and it was a scientific research hotbed during the Soviet Union.

Never been to Azerbaijan but by all accounts it's a autocratic petro-dollar sh*tbox on the Caspian.

Oscar Madison · 27-09-2020 11:50pm

DraftDodger wrote: »

The human race never learns. Its in our nature to destroy ourselves

Terminator II.

4068ac1elhodqr · 28-09-2020 12:10am

Armenia gave us the Kardishans, but the Azerbaijanis always fair well at the Eurovision.
So difficult to take sides here, as they project increasingly large ordnance skybound at each other.

Dravokivich · 28-09-2020 12:31am

Malaysia Easy Rakishly wrote: »

Armenia gave us the Kardishans, but the Azerbaijanis always fair well at the Eurovision.
So difficult to take sides here, as they project increasingly large ordnance skybound at each other.

Armenia also gave us system of a down.

Gatling · 28-09-2020 1:33am

There goes this year's Eurovision !

biko · 28-09-2020 10:41am

Tensions between Greece and Turkey, India and Pakistan, China vs everybody.

Armenia vs Azerbaijan enters the server

jmayo · 28-09-2020 11:07am

suicide_circus wrote: »

Trump has his flaws, oh so many flaws, but warmonger is not one of them, bit of sabre rattling at North Korea aside.

Yeah he just lets his backer Putin do what he wants and leaves his former allies up sh** Creek when he does deal with their enemy.
Just ask the Kurds on that last one.

Malaysia Easy Rakishly wrote: »

Armenia gave us the Kardishans, but the Azerbaijanis always fair well at the Eurovision.
So difficult to take sides here, as they project increasingly large ordnance skybound at each other.

Correction the yanks gave us the Kardashians.
Don't blame the Armenians for a bunch of self entitled big ars*d American women.

silverharp · 28-09-2020 11:14am

could someone give a handy list of how to pick a side? is there an obvious good guy bad guy or is it complicated?

ohnonotgmail · 28-09-2020 11:26am

Malaysia Easy Rakishly wrote: »

Armenia gave us the Kardishans, but the Azerbaijanis always fair well at the Eurovision.
So difficult to take sides here, as they project increasingly large ordnance skybound at each other.

armenia gave us charles aznavour and for that we should be eternally grateful

Gatling · 28-09-2020 11:30am

silverharp wrote: »

could someone give a handy list of how to pick a side? is there an obvious good guy bad guy or is it complicated?

It's slightly complicated but Russia is at the heart of it along with turkey,
Both sides are backed to a degree by russia one is rules by a former kgb officer while the other is also military backed by russia but see's it's self an alternative to russian oil and gas supplier to Europe ,

Russia has been supporting Armenia military wise and have support agreements in place , Azerbaijan has been spending big on military equipment and modernising it's military over the last few years due to its Oil and gas sales

Turkey wants to be a big player in the region but it's complicated history with Armenia and refusal to even acknowledge the genocide of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI by the then ottomans .

There is no real clear cut good guys Vs bad guys in the current situation

da_miser · 28-09-2020 11:46am

Am i the only one who does not care?
Its half a world away, let them at it.

silverharp · 28-09-2020 11:54am

Gatling wrote: »

It's slightly complicated but Russia is at the heart of it along with turkey,
Both sides are backed to a degree by russia one is rules by a former kgb officer while the other is also military backed by russia but see's it's self an alternative to russian oil and gas supplier to Europe ,

Russia has been supporting Armenia military wise and have support agreements in place , Azerbaijan has been spending big on military equipment and modernising it's military over the last few years due to its Oil and gas sales

Turkey wants to be a big player in the region but it's complicated history with Armenia and refusal to even acknowledge the genocide of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI by the then ottomans .

There is no real clear cut good guys Vs bad guys in the current situation

Seems Turkey is in the middle of a lot of these things, I wonder was that even a factor behind the recent Arab states thaw with Israel this year?

Zebra3 · 28-09-2020 11:58am

To go back to the start of the conflict, both nations left the USSR, and then Nagorno-Karabakh which had a form of self-government and mainly full of Armenians declared independence from Azerbaijan.

So if Azerbaijan had the right to declare independence from the USSR, did NK likewise have the right to declare independence from Azerbaijan? This would be very similar to Kosovo which was an autonomous area within Serbia but not a republic within the federal Yugoslavia.

Under international law however it is still part of Azerbaijan, and Armenia also occupies areas of the rest of Azerbaijan surrounding NK.

Russia is happy enough to see two of its' former Soviet republics at each other's throats (divide and conquer) and the US has splinters up its' arse. Big ethnic Armenian community in the US, but Azerbaijan has oil.

Was in NK ten years ago in both Stepanakert and Shushi, very interesting place to visit. Literally the day after I left there was a skirmish at one of the no-man's land areas and five soldiers were killed.

Anyone really interested in it all, I'd recommend a great book called Black Garden.

Trouser Snake · 28-09-2020 12:03pm

da_miser wrote: »

Am i the only one who does not care?
Its half a world away, let them at it.

Until the EU start taking in more refugees fleeing the area.

wes · 28-09-2020 12:07pm

TheBlackPill wrote: »

The poor Armenians, they have lost so much already, genocided, scattered and now this

The Armenians ethnically cleansed Azeri's during the first conflict. They are far from innocent in this:

https://assembly.coe.int/nw/xml/XRef/X2H-Xref-ViewHTML.asp?FileID=11283&lang=EN

da_miser · 28-09-2020 12:13pm

Trouser Snake wrote: »

Until the EU start taking in more refugees fleeing the area.

Wont happen, Armenians are Christian, their kind are persona non grata as refugees

Open the Pubs · 28-09-2020 1:37pm

https://twitter.com/KimKardashian/status/1310278055768846338

https://twitter.com/KimKardashian/status/1310278059266904069

https://twitter.com/HenrikhMkh/status/1310167328458448898

https://twitter.com/HenrikhMkh/status/1310167775961325568

Turkey seem to be aligned with Azerbaijan. Iran, Greece and Syria with Armenia. Israel, USA, Russia neutral so far. EU irrelevant as usual. Armenia are in some defence group with Russia and other ex Soviet countries like Kazakhstan, which could be important, Azerbaijan are not in that group anymore but have oil money.

Armenia and Azerbaijan conflict

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