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Paquiao vs Mayweather fight

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    #92
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    ooops, looks like Pacman isn't prepared to go into a fight without his roids. He had the boxing testing sussed, but not this new testing... question marks over his entire career now...


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    #93
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    akindoc wrote: »
    ooops, looks like Pacman isn't prepared to go into a fight without his roids. He had the boxing testing sussed, but not this new testing... question marks over his entire career now...

    Your post seems to imply that you believe Manny to be a suspect fighter?
    He might well be, but so far, he hasn't tested for anything illegal
    in boxing.

    Until new testing standards are implemented and made legal in boxing, doesn't he have
    the right NOT to take the test, especially when Floyd could be playin' games with him.

    It's as much about mind games and gaining a mental edge as it is about fair play


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    #94
    consultech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭consultech


    akindoc wrote: »
    ooops, looks like Pacman isn't prepared to go into a fight without his roids. He had the boxing testing sussed, but not this new testing... question marks over his entire career now...

    Fairly clueless/sensationlist statement tbh.

    I'm not saying he's clean, nobody knows now; But he's well within his rights to not want to give a single drop of blood in the run up to the biggest fight of his career.

    The man has achieved nothing short of multiple miracles in successfully moving through the weights, and him being able to get his body to 110% condition should be his only priority, even if that means upsetting a few sensibilities by ducking behind the technicalities of the testing guidelines.


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    #95
    simongurnick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭simongurnick


    walshb wrote: »
    Is this the first time that boxers have been subject to this kind of testing?

    If the testing is not a legal requirement, then maybe Pac should not take it, or be
    requested to take it. Boxing is a drug tested sport, and until they bring in new testing measures, then Pacman should play by the "boxing testing" rules.

    I am vacillating on this issue. On the one hand, I want to see that our boxers are clean, and are tested vigorously and rigidly, but on the other hand, if the rules in boxing are all that is required, then play by them rules.


    Have to disagree here. The problem with drug cheats in all sports is they have found ways to get around each organisations testing procedures. Marion Jones was tested loads of times before she was caught. If Manny is clean, he is clean. He should take a test anywhere, anytime and if he doesnt why should Floyd have to face him.
    I hope to God he is clean given that he has been such a great role model for the sport.


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    #96
    shamblertine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 888 ✭✭✭shamblertine


    consultech wrote: »
    Fairly clueless/sensationlist statement tbh.

    I'm not saying he's clean, nobody knows now; But he's well within his rights to not want to give a single drop of blood in the run up to the biggest fight of his career.

    The man has achieved nothing short of multiple miracles in successfully moving through the weights, and him being able to get his body to 110% condition should be his only priority, even if that means upsetting a few sensibilities by ducking behind the technicalities of the testing guidelines.

    I think you're being incredibly naive. The only possible reason why he wouldn't want to give a test before the fight is if he wasn't clean. A blood test takes all of about 10 seconds and doesn't hurt, don't believe the bull about him not liking giving blood tests. Its as clear as day whats going on here but then I suppose people will believe what they want to believe.


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    #97
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    shamblertine wrote: »
    I think you're being incredibly naive. The only possible reason why he wouldn't want to give a test before the fight is if he wasn't clean. A blood test takes all of about 10 seconds and doesn't hurt, don't believe the bull about him not liking giving blood tests. Its as clear as day whats going on here but then I suppose people will believe what they want to believe.

    Yep. 25-30 million on the table and a simple blood test is stopping him from collecting? Hmmm.


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    #98
    Reginald P. DuM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Reginald P. DuM


    I must say its very disconcerting for a Pacquiao fan to hear of this news.
    I'm trying to get a handle on it, if someone could correct me if I am wrong. Mannny has no objections to be tested in the way he has been done before, as in before the pre-fight press conference (30 days) and after the fight. But Mayweather want Olympic style testing done which means random bloods and urine at any time up to and after the bout.

    So the Olympic testing has never been done before in Manny's experience and Floyd is trying to rattle his cage by insisting they go the new route, which is by no means mandatory? Have I got it right before I draw any conclusions....


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    #99
    consultech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭consultech


    Reginald P. DuM wrote: »
    I must say its very disconcerting for a Pacquiao fan to hear of this news.
    I'm trying to get a handle on it, if someone could correct me if I am wrong. Mannny has no objections to be tested in the way he has been done before, as in before the pre-fight press conference (30 days) and after the fight. But Mayweather want Olympic style testing done which means random bloods and urine at any time up to and after the bout.

    So the Olympic testing has never been done before in Manny's experience and Floyd is trying to rattle his cage by insisting they go the new route, which is by no means mandatory? Have I got it right before I draw any conclusions....

    That's about the size of it, yeah.

    I think it's too early to comment tbh. It would be great to see Manny just say "ok then" as the fight approaches. He may just be fucking with Mayweather coz that's clearly what PBF is trying to do himself.

    It's all seemed like a very ego-driven affair since the get-go, and now that PBF is making more demands; Manny might just have a problem with saying "How high" straight away.


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    #100
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    simongurnick wrote: »
    Have to disagree here. The problem with drug cheats in all sports is they have found ways to get around each organisations testing procedures. Marion Jones was tested loads of times before she was caught. If Manny is clean, he is clean. He should take a test anywhere, anytime and if he doesnt why should Floyd have to face him.
    I hope to God he is clean given that he has been such a great role model for the sport.

    I don't know what you are disagreeing with. I am well aware that the cheats can beat the system; my point is that in the sport of boxing, Manny is not legally required to do this KIND of test.

    What I find odd is that Floyd is saying that Pacman is one dimensional and that he will KO him; and now he wants drugs tests? His version of testing!
    Reeks of games to me


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    #101
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    walsh who said Pac was legally required to do the test?

    Plenty of people have expressed some question marks about his going through the weights with no bother, not just the Mayweathers.

    Do you know what the NVAC drug testing procedure is? A urine test before the fight and a urine test after the fight.

    If you know anything about performance enhancing drugs, you'll know that that is far from adequate. The long training camp is where the hard work is done and where the drugs will help.

    Pac is not comfortable with random tests up to 10 weeks before the fight. He is not legally required to take them, but it doesn't take a genius to see something suspicious here.


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    #102
    Reginald P. DuM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Reginald P. DuM


    akindoc wrote: »
    walsh who said Pac was legally required to do the test?

    I'm sure walsh can defend himself but he never stated that it was a legal requirement, that point is not up for debate. What is however is whats really going on here. When someone realises the kind of heights Manny has done in sport it is automatic that it be questioned, that is human nature. After giving this some thought I am convinced is Floyd and his camp stirring it more than anything else. This does not mean Manny is clean but I believe him to be so.

    As for your genius remark you are correct it doesn't take a genius to add 2 and 2 and make 7. Things are not always as they seem.


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    #103
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Tbh I think it's shocking to see people making excuses for a guy wanting to avoid drugs testing because of technicalities.

    If it was the less likable Mayweather carrying on the same way it would be called a disgrace.


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    #104
    consultech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭consultech


    Bottom Line:

    1) This is gamesmanship, simple as. The Mayweather's have sniffed out an opportunity to try and rattle Manny during fight prep, or tarnish Manny's (likely) victory, and they're running with it.

    2) Manny isn't refusing to be tested; He's objecting to the stipulations of olympic-style testing. He's even willing to go above and beyond the NSAC requirements in giving a sample 30 days before, and before he even hits the showers after the fight

    3) It doesn't matter when the test is done: PED/Steroids can all be tracked in a blood sample MONTHS after they're taken, and HGH can't be tracked by either, making it pointless on that count. Even if he didn't take anythin for this fight, they'd even be able to tell whether he did for Cotto or not. I don't know what everyone (in the know) is gettin their knickers in a twist about.

    4) I'm in sheer disbelief that a claim originally (and only) made by Floyd Mayweather Senior (FMS FFS!!!!) is being jumped on so readily. The man goes on like a crack-addict, and is not-to-mention PBF's father. Not someone in the media, not a doctor with any kind of proof, not the NSAC... FMS.


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    #105
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Why in the world would drug testing "rattle the cage" of a clean athlete!?

    Such a naive argument it's unreal tbh.


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    #106
    NiamhDunk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭NiamhDunk


    pacman has an awful amount of tattoos for someone whos scared of needles.......


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    #107
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Why in the world would drug testing "rattle the cage" of a clean athlete!?

    Such a naive argument it's unreal tbh.

    It's amazing keane. Floyd is reasonable in wanting fair random drug testing from both of them, yet is being criticized for it. If Pac had just said Yes all along there would be absolutely no problem. Pacman has no problem stipulating 10 million per pound over 147, which Floyd agreed to. There are many many substances out there that athletes use. The only way to GUARANTEE that an athlete isn't using, is random testing. Pacman isn't up for random testing... and considering how miraculous his achievements have been in the past without random testing, you do have to wonder.

    Regardless, the basic point stands. Floyd wants fairness with random drug testing. Pacman doesn't.


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    #108
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    consultech wrote: »
    Bottom Line:

    4) I'm in sheer disbelief that a claim originally (and only) made by Floyd Mayweather Senior (FMS FFS!!!!) is being jumped on so readily. The man goes on like a crack-addict, and is not-to-mention PBF's father. Not someone in the media, not a doctor with any kind of proof, not the NSAC... FMS.

    It's not just Mayweather Sr. Many people have expressed concern. It's actually been said by many boxing fans.

    Considering the usual NSAC testing procedure is a simple urine test BEFORE and AFTER the fight... there is certainly some room to manouver there...


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    #109
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    consultech wrote: »

    3) It doesn't matter when the test is done: PED/Steroids can all be tracked in a blood sample MONTHS after they're taken, and HGH can't be tracked by either, making it pointless on that count. Even if he didn't take anythin for this fight, they'd even be able to tell whether he did for Cotto or not. I don't know what everyone (in the know) is gettin their knickers in a twist about.

    Dodgy claims there. You cannot know this for sure without being a world class chemist/pharmacist with access to every possible performance enhancing substance on the planet. Who knows what Pac could be using.


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    #110
    Reginald P. DuM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Reginald P. DuM


    Absolute gamesmanship and mind games, to conclude anything else is wrong IMO.

    Great fighters will tell you that it is just as important to beat an opponent mentally as well as physically. Indeed having the upper had in a psychogical battle makes the physical battle that bit easier. If you can get insdie the opponents head its the best possible start. The Floyd's know this. Pacman and his team won't be phased by this, nor will they bow down to the requests to go the Olympic route. Why should they move the goalposts now?

    Pacman's achievements have been extraordinary but miraclous is overstating it a little, he really is that good end of story.

    Lets face it, its not unbelievable to think that the Mayweathers sat down and tried to decide on a plan to get at Pacquiao, and this is their attempt. It's not a real dirty trick or anything lets not blow it out of proportion but nonetheless a stunt is what it is. If its ever proven that Pacman is wrotten I will do a George Hook on it and eat my tie. This fight will happen and I can't wait!!


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    #111
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    This guy sums it up pretty well

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CqZ4xY3xqc&feature=sub


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    #112
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    akindoc wrote: »
    walsh who said Pac was legally required to do the test?

    Plenty of people have expressed some question marks about his going through the weights with no bother, not just the Mayweathers.

    Do you know what the NVAC drug testing procedure is? A urine test before the fight and a urine test after the fight.

    If you know anything about performance enhancing drugs, you'll know that that is far from adequate. The long training camp is where the hard work is done and where the drugs will help.

    Pac is not comfortable with random tests up to 10 weeks before the fight. He is not legally required to take them, but it doesn't take a genius to see something suspicious here.

    Hey, I know well that the testing standards and procedures aren't great in the sport and I do understand how "cheats" work. The fact is that CURRENTLY in this sport, the NSAC do a urinalysis test before and after. This is the rule, applies to all, hence, until it is not a rule, then end of story.


    Pacman has gone a step further and agreed to random urine tests, something he didn't have to do


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    #113
    Reginald P. DuM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Reginald P. DuM


    akindoc wrote: »
    This guy sums it up pretty well

    Pretty well if you happen to agree with him that should read. LOL at the room in his house analogy. Thats some deep s"*t there!!


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    #114
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    Reginald P. DuM wrote: »
    Pretty well if you happen to agree with him that should read. LOL at the room in his house analogy. Thats some deep s"*t there!!


    I hope your still LOLing 20 years from now when the fight never happened. You can still defend pacman and say it was floyds fault for wanting fair testing accross the board. or "gamesmanship" in other words.


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    #115
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    walshb wrote: »

    Pacman has gone a step further and agreed to random urine tests, something he didn't have to do

    Where does it say he's agreed to random urine tests?

    If so, well why not agree to random blood tests too... hmmm


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    #116
    mrflair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭mrflair


    We all know why manny wont take the blood test 30 days before the fight. The subject is not allowed on boards but come on where does he get that power from. Its not wetabix.


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    #117
    consultech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭consultech


    akindoc wrote: »
    It's not just Mayweather Sr. Many people have expressed concern. It's actually been said by many boxing fans.

    Floyd Sr. started flapping his meth-hole about it publicly before anyone else. Prove me wrong.


    No-one is gonna change their mind on this once they've made it up either way, so we should let it lie.

    Let's just watch how things unfold over the next three months. Surprise surprise this will blow over and PBF will fight (and guess what? He won't be buying a weight advantage this time round at $10m per pound, and rightfully so), and the issue will only be brought up again by the Mayweathers should PBF lose.


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    #118
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,584 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    akindoc wrote: »
    Where does it say he's agreed to random urine tests?

    If so, well why not agree to random blood tests too... hmmm

    It is what is being reported, coming from Roach and Arum.

    Look, I am big time anti drugs cheats and believe in a really firm approach and penalties. The fact is that the rules are not being broken here. Floyd is creating HIS own rules. That's all well and good, but it means jack sh!t.

    Why have rules if they are then not enough, or if a person abides by them, he/she is still criticised. Like I said, if the rule changes, then Pacman should
    abide by the change.

    Where does it end? Hoop after hoop after hoop!


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    #119
    consultech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭consultech


    akindoc wrote: »
    Where does it say he's agreed to random urine tests?

    If so, well why not agree to random blood tests too... hmmm

    PBF wants him to give blood within 48 hours of the fight while he's all the while waiting for a knock on the door to do it. It's unreasonable.

    Manny is both spooked by having blood drawn, and believes it makes him weaker (grand if you're walking around at the weight all year round, like guess who).

    For someone so vocal on the issue akindoc: I would've thought reading the pertinent quotes by the fighters in any one of the numerous news releases available online would be a good place to start.


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    #120
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    consultech wrote: »
    Floyd Sr. started flapping his meth-hole about it publicly before anyone else. Prove me wrong.


    No-one is gonna change their mind on this once they've made it up either way, so we should let it lie.

    Let's just watch how things unfold over the next three months. Surprise surprise this will blow over and PBF will fight (and guess what? He won't be buying a weight advantage this time round at $10m per pound, and rightfully so), and the issue will only be brought up again by the Mayweathers should PBF lose.

    Fans and boxing journalists have been wondering about Pacman since the Oscar fight mate. It's been discussed on boxing forums for a long time. Floyd Jr has been saying it for a while himself.

    I don't know whether Pacman is using or isn't. But he doesn't fill me with confidence by not agreeing to the test. It's my understanding that the best way to detect HGH is with a blood test. EPO stays in blood for 10-14 days I believe, after that you can't detect it, which makes random testing for that sort of thing a significant deterant.


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    #121
    akindoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭akindoc


    walshb wrote: »
    It is what is being reported, coming from Roach and Arum.

    Look, I am big time anti drugs cheats and believe in a really firm approach and penalties. The fact is that the rules are not being broken here. Floyd is creating HIS own rules. That's all well and good, but it means jack sh!t.

    Why have rules if they are then not enough, or if a person abides by them, he/she is still criticised. Like I said, if the rule changes, then Pacman should
    abide by the change.

    Where does it end? Hoop after hoop after hoop!

    Last time I'll respond to this particular argument because you don't seem to accept the point I've made or other people have.

    And that point is that,
    YES, he rules are the rules,
    NO Pacman doesn't legally have to take any other tests,
    BUT the tests are ambiguous and as it stands, Pac could be getting away with using performance enhancing drugs under the current rules which the Mayweathers and everyone else is aware of.

    I also have not seen Pac agreeing to the random urine testing from any articals.


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