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Refereeing standards.

13

Comments

  • #62
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Semi Final Champions wrote: »
    They won't blow the whistle on themselves, but they know if they miss the opportunity to level a game or they put a big team out in a close call where they could have let it run for an equaliser (for maybe even 7 or 8 minutes + which has happened) they might not get the whistle again. The dogs on the street know it.

    Well the conspiracy forum is over there unless you have any proof to be honest. You are essentially saying that referees, who are not paid, fix matches on a systemic level consistently, with not one person ever breaking rank to say so. You can barely go for dinner in this country without someone tweeting your guilt, so nah, sorry, don't buy the tin foil hat stuff. Just one example of a jilted ref saying "I didn't get x match because I didn't play extra time" would do.

    So referees apparently fix matches for big teams, while also adhering to their own county historical biases. So some crooked referee from Leitrim does all the matches.


  • #63
    Semi Final Champions
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭Semi Final Champions


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Well the conspiracy forum is over there unless you have any proof to be honest. You are essentially saying that referees, who are not paid, fix matches on a systemic level consistently, with not one person ever breaking rank to say so. You can barely go for dinner in this country without someone tweeting your guilt, so nah, sorry, don't buy the tin foil hat stuff. Just one example of a jilted ref saying "I didn't get x match because I didn't play extra time" would do.

    So referees apparently fix matches for big teams, while also adhering to their own county historical biases. So some crooked referee from Leitrim does all the matches.

    I never said it happens consistently or systematically but if you ever played the game or followed it closely you'd know it happens


  • #64
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Semi Final Champions wrote: »
    I never said it happens consistently or systematically but if you ever played the game or followed it closely you'd know it happens

    You said "This is why very often big teams with big followings get the big calls". I think that implies a regularity.

    So no evidence, grand.


  • #65
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    crossman47 wrote: »
    In all honesty, the main problem is the tackle. There is a rule but refs leave a lot go. If they blew for every foul, they would whistle all day. Define the tackle more clearly as only playing the ball or a fair shoulder. Fellows are getting punched around the chest and stomach and not getting a free.
    Tackle in gaelic is a major issue. Not the main one but just a part of the problem.
    The rule isnt near good enough for refs to manage games or players to play. It needs to be rewritten from scratch.
    tayto lover wrote: »
    The game mentioned from 10 years ago was mentioned to show that nothing of note has actually changed. Refereeing is still putrid imo.
    The referee and linesman in the Cavan v Down game last Sunday didn’t seem to know the rule on the Mark.
    So how do you change things. Its far from referees fault. Theyre not helped by clubs, county boards/GAA as a whole any where near enough
    tayto lover wrote: »
    A referee knowing the rules and being fair to both teams ie if he gives advantage to one team then he does the same to the other. Both teams being treated the same way, neither can complain. Unlike last Sunday’s game.

    You a referee yourself?
    Not a GAA ref. Advantage cant always be the same. The rule isnt good enough either.
    Semi Final Champions wrote: »
    Unfortunately the Top of the GAA want refs to be able to draw matches when big crowds are involved for financial reasons obviously. This is why very often big teams with big followings get the big calls either to keep them in it or to progress and keep the money rolling in to the coffers. Video refs would'nt help this and could cost the GAA. Its all for the greater good im sure.
    That isnt near true. Video refs is only talking about the very top refs and the top level teams/games. The issue this thread ultimately is about is about how refs are trained/coached/treated from when they start reffing and doing games at u12/14 level and their rise to the top of the game. as there's major faults with whole system


  • #66
    Semi Final Champions
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭Semi Final Champions


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    You said "This is why very often big teams with big followings get the big calls". I think that implies a regularity.

    So no evidence, grand.

    Just experience.


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  • #67
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Semi Final Champions wrote: »
    Just experience.
    Any specific examples of games where this supposedly has happened?


  • #68
    Semi Final Champions
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭Semi Final Champions


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Any specific examples of games where this supposedly has happened?

    In fairness, I can't go there but I'm amazed you've had such great positive experiences over such period of time


  • #69
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    And that's why any conversation around refereeing never leads to anything. Fans, players, and supporters are far too blinded by their own perception to offer meaty and constructive criticism to raise the game as a whole.

    Refereeing can be improved, in my opinion, by :

    Micing the ref as per rugby so that the open displays of dissent would disappear over night.

    Retroactively severely punishing, as in several months ban, for anyone found guilty of simulation, or using slight contact to exaggerate injury to have a player punished

    Raising the regularity of fitness assessments, and laws of the game assessments to every 2 months for all referees at the top level.

    I may be wrong but I believe umpires for gaa are just guys the referee knows? Yeah get rid of that if that's true.

    Revise the laws for the tackle, with expert panel of coaches, players, administrators and referees all clearly defining with examples available on some sort of app.


  • #70
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    And that's why any conversation around refereeing never leads to anything. Fans, players, and supporters are far too blinded by their own perception to offer meaty and constructive criticism to raise the game as a whole.

    Refereeing can be improved, in my opinion, by :

    Micing the ref as per rugby so that the open displays of dissent would disappear over night.

    Retroactively severely punishing, as in several months ban, for anyone found guilty of simulation, or using slight contact to exaggerate injury to have a player punished

    Raising the regularity of fitness assessments, and laws of the game assessments to every 2 months for all referees at the top level.

    I may be wrong but I believe umpires for gaa are just guys the referee knows? Yeah get rid of that if that's true.

    Revise the laws for the tackle, with expert panel of coaches, players, administrators and referees all clearly defining with examples available on some sort of app.
    You dont need to have fitness assessments or rules assessments as often as that. There should simply be meetings with all refs in countys/divisions(depending on number of refs in a county division and size of county) on monthly or more regular basis than that led by referee staff who are full time staff appointed by croke park with refs at the higher levels or anticipated to be at higher levels soon attending more meetings thru the year.
    totally agree that umpires and who they are needs to change

    The rules need to be changed to help refs and make it easier for them to manage games.


  • #71
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    You dont need to have fitness assessments or rules assessments as often as that. There should simply be meetings with all refs in countys/divisions(depending on number of refs in a county division and size of county) on monthly or more regular basis than that led by referee staff who are full time staff appointed by croke park with refs at the higher levels or anticipated to be at higher levels soon attending more meetings thru the year.
    totally agree that umpires and who they are needs to change

    The rules need to be changed to help refs and make it easier for them to manage games.

    I can't comment on the top gaa lads, they look in great shape, and I'm sure they train together on a regional level at least, so one of the training sessions every once in a while could be given over to a fitness assessment.

    The laws assessment should not be pen and paper, but clip analysis, spot what's wrong with positioning etc,what would you have done in this instance. So that it is assessment for learning rather than just "do you know the laws of the game",but is also giving a centralised answer to iffy calls for everyone to learn. Again, after a season these could be made public etc.

    But I think we broadly agree on what is needed alright. Im a total casual when it comes to gaa refs and I think they do grand.


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  • #72
    rpurfield
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭rpurfield


    There's a podcast called Tackling Sport and the two lads on it have interviewed both David Gough and David Coldrick in the last year. If you want to know what the county lads put in listen to one or both of them as they talk about the assessments and training etc.

    Umpires are organised by the referee and are generally lads that they know from club or family. Some lads use ex referees too. The umpires do courses as well now.


  • #73
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    I can't comment on the top gaa lads, they look in great shape, and I'm sure they train together on a regional level at least, so one of the training sessions every once in a while could be given over to a fitness assessment.

    The laws assessment should not be pen and paper, but clip analysis, spot what's wrong with positioning etc,what would you have done in this instance. So that it is assessment for learning rather than just "do you know the laws of the game",but is also giving a centralised answer to iffy calls for everyone to learn. Again, after a season these could be made public etc.

    But I think we broadly agree on what is needed alright. Im a total casual when it comes to gaa refs and I think they do grand.
    I dont think you need to be focusing on fitness assessments as much as tat.
    Saying rules assessment is wrong though. It should simply be a discussion and led by full time staff member who js experienced ref/former ref. Yes positioning etc. Thats whats done in rugby.


  • #74
    flasher0030
    Registered Users Posts: 2,459 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    Semi Final Champions wrote: »
    I never said it happens consistently or systematically but if you ever played the game or followed it closely you'd know it happens

    That doesn't happen.
    I would be very confident in my assertion that a top GAA bigwig has never tried to influence a ref in how that ref was going to referee the forthcoming game. At least in modern times anyway - where social media has made freedom of speech so easy.


  • #75
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,410 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    All I want to see is that the referees =

    1. Know the rules and play by them.
    2. Referee both teams the same way.

    That should please everyone and give both teams a fair crack of the whip.


  • #76
    crossman47
    Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭crossman47


    tayto lover wrote: »
    All I want to see is that the referees =

    1. Know the rules and play by them.
    2. Referee both teams the same way.

    That should please everyone and give both teams a fair crack of the whip.

    No. 1 is impossible because the rule on the tackle is ignored by all.


  • #77
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    tayto lover wrote: »
    All I want to see is that the referees =

    1. Know the rules and play by them.
    2. Referee both teams the same way.

    That should please everyone and give both teams a fair crack of the whip.
    when you say ref play by the rules do you want a very rigid approach where everything is exactly by the book or do you give refs leeway?
    crossman47 wrote: »
    No. 1 is impossible because the rule on the tackle is ignored by all.
    Which just shows the tackle rule isnt good enough and needs to be rewritten


  • #78
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    I dont think you need to be focusing on fitness assessments as much as tat.
    Saying rules assessment is wrong though. It should simply be a discussion and led by full time staff member who js experienced ref/former ref. Yes positioning etc. Thats whats done in rugby.

    I've been on panels with guys who bluff their way through discussions, hiding behind senior lads and only offering opinions when they're as obvious as day. An assessment gets lads off the fence. Could just be soccer though..


  • #79
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    I've been on panels with guys who bluff their way through discussions, hiding behind senior lads and only offering opinions when they're as obvious as day. An assessment gets lads off the fence. Could just be soccer though..
    It doesnt need to be a physical assessment. If you have all refs attending regular meetings ran by the top officials/appointed ref development staff and then refs are regularly assessed when doing games and get feedback from the assessors who are experienced/retired refs


  • #80
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    I've been on panels with guys who bluff their way through discussions, hiding behind senior lads and only offering opinions when they're as obvious as day. An assessment gets lads off the fence. Could just be soccer though..
    It doesnt need to be a physical assessment. If you have all refs attending regular meetings ran by the top officials/appointed ref development staff and then refs are regularly assessed when doing games and get feedback from the assessors who are experienced/retired refs


  • #81
    Open the Pubs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 396 ✭✭Open the Pubs


    Refereeing was a disgrace again yesterday, Barry Cassidy done all he could to advantage Donegal. In the end it didn't matter but it could have been remembered for all the wrong reasons.


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  • #82
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,410 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Open the Pubs wrote: »
    Refereeing was a disgrace again yesterday, Barry Cassidy done all he could to advantage Donegal. In the end it didn't matter but it could have been remembered for all the wrong reasons.

    Deegan was poor in the Cork v Tipperary match too.

    It will continue to be ignored though.


  • #83
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,410 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Just read through both of Sunday’s match threads again.
    Nothing but posts pointing out issues with the referees.
    The National Broadcaster failed to mention them, I wonder why?

    Can’t see things changing anytime soon.


  • #84
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Did the national broadcaster praise the referee in the other matches?


  • #85
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,506 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Deegan was poor in the Cork v Tipperary match too.

    It will continue to be ignored though.

    Especially when you have fellas like Dessie Dolan with the benefit of replays agreeing with the calls. It's like he's watching a different game at times.


  • #86
    Open the Pubs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 396 ✭✭Open the Pubs


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Just read through both of Sunday’s match threads again.
    Nothing but posts pointing out issues with the referees.
    The National Broadcaster failed to mention them, I wonder why?

    Can’t see things changing anytime soon.

    Really incredible RTE neglected to mention it. Barry Cassidy was trending on twitter for a long time and that's not a good sign for a referee.

    RTEs punditry has been appalling, you have the likes of Colm O'Rourke and Sean Cavanagh coming out with total ****e every week.


  • #87
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,410 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Really going to watch the refereeing today the reason being that I don’t rate Brannigan at all and can’t understand how he got an All Ireland semi-final.
    The referee should be from Munster or Connacht if the GAA were doing this right.
    He’s from Ulster yet the Cavan lads have no time for him.


  • #88
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    That's great, can you keep a list of all the decisions you agree with from him, and then the ones you don't agree with.

    All frees, cards, frees correctly not given etc.


  • #89
    rpurfield
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭rpurfield


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    That's great, can you keep a list of all the decisions you agree with from him, and then the ones you don't agree with.

    All frees, cards, frees correctly not given etc.

    And then give Croke Park a shout to say they can help with the assessment :pac:


  • #90
    tanko
    Registered Users Posts: 9,199 ✭✭✭tanko


    I'd love to see the assessment of Barry Cassdys performance in the Ulster final.


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  • #91
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,410 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    tanko wrote: »
    I'd love to see the assessment of Barry Cassdys performance in the Ulster final.

    Some of the boys above think there’s no problems with referees.
    Might just be in that game themselves,🤪


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