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Bald Tyre - Fixed Penalty Notice.

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135

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    #62
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,146 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Yes he could however if he is willing to swear under oath and that tyres are the same the judge will take it into account unless Garda swears he physically measured them

    How could the tyre fitter know that it was the same tyre that the garda looked at?


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    #63
    Cork_Guest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭Cork_Guest


    Should have told him yer Phil Hogan, he’d have bought you new tyres and charged your mobile while ye waited for him to fit them!


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    #64
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,615 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    tbh just like speeding offenses, id imagine the judge would look for a bit more than a notebook to prosecute with points.

    Youve taken all reasonable measures to check the condition of the tyre and it passed a state sponsored test.

    Id go to the court appearance and expect the guard not to appear.


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    #65
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,710 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Mellor wrote: »
    Swearing isn’t proof though.
    Sworn evidence is regarded by the courts as the best proof there is. It the only evidence that can be put to the test.

    Most if not all of the evidence people think of as "proof" is regarded as hearsay.


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    There still needs to be evidence / measurements to back up the claim. As somebody who has worked in metrology for over 25 years, you cannot determine the actual depth of something by just looking at it.

    Now, there doesn't. Personal opinion of a Garda with years of training and experience in a field is considered exoert testimony. It's why they get summoned to civil matters involving car crashes.

    Naturally I agree if the argument was 1.2mm but not a bald spot or wire showing.

    That's like the old joke about the doctor verifying death without checking for a pulse when the head is ten feet away


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    #67
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,710 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Now, there doesn't. Personal opinion of a Garda with years of training and experience in a field is considered exoert testimony. It's why they get summoned to civil matters involving car crashes.

    Naturally I agree if the argument was 1.2mm but not a bald spot or wire showing.

    That's like the old joke about the doctor verifying death without checking for a pulse when the head is ten feet away
    I know that joke - isn't the rest that when asked by counsel "...but he could still have been alive" the response given was "I suppose he could have been alive and practising law somewhere."

    Always gives me a tickle that one.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    I know that joke - isn't the rest that when asked by counsel "...but he could still have been alive" the response given was "I suppose he could have been alive and practising law somewhere."

    Always gives me a tickle that one.

    Way to ruin the punchline baloo!


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    #69
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,146 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    I know that joke - isn't the rest that when asked by counsel "...but he could still have been alive" the response given was "I suppose he could have been alive and practising law somewhere."

    Always gives me a tickle that one.

    the best jokes always have some basis in truth


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    #70
    donspeekinglesh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    all that for an 80 euro fine and two points? two points that will have no effect on their own. bearing in mind that if you lose the points are doubled and that will definitely have an effect.

    I don't know about anyone else's insurance, but I get a discount for having no points. 27% a year, so even 2 points would cost me near €500 in total over the the years (more than my renewal currently costs for a year). So for me that might tip the balance toward fighting what I felt was an unfair penalty.


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    #71
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    OP, if you believe you haven’t committed the offence and you don’t want to accept the out of court settlement for it as in points plus fine you take your day in court and tell the judge you’re not guilty.

    Gardaí will have to present their evidence and you can contest it.

    Any chance you still have that tyre on the car ? Tyres do have a serial number you know.


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    #72
    Boxcar_Willie
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭Boxcar_Willie


    meathstevie wrote: »
    OP, if you believe you haven’t committed the offence and you don’t want to accept the out of court settlement for it as in points plus fine you take your day in court and tell the judge you’re not guilty.

    Gardaí will have to present their evidence and you can contest it.

    Any chance you still have that tyre on the car ? Tyres do have a serial number you know.
    Yes the tyre is still on the car , still plenty of meat in it.
    I intend buying a new set for winter .


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    #73
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Boxcar_Willie wrote: »
    Yes the tyre is still on the car , still plenty of meat in it.
    I intend buying a new set for winter .

    Do all your tyres match? Same make/model?

    I think this would be sufficient evidence that you didnt magically switch them out, assuming the Gard took note of the make/model!


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    #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What were you pulled in for in the first place? Did you receive any other fines etc?
    Sounds like you got a right going over- were you speeding or something? Unusual for a normal checkpoint to check for bald tyres if tax insurance and NCT in place?
    I’m asking not out of nosy-ness but more that if there were other issues like speeding or careless driving etc things may not go quite so smoothly on the day if appealing the fine.


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    #75
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    There are brands of tyres, Continental for one, that have Tread Wear Indicators (TWI) that are different to the standard TWI that most of us look at and think **** better get that tyre changed, I wonder if the Gard looked at a Winter or Summer TWI and mistook it for a 1.6mm TWI?

    https://www.continental-tires.com.gh/car/technology/tyre-knowledge/lex-1-1

    tyre-worn-beyond-twi.jpg


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    #76
    Boxcar_Willie
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭Boxcar_Willie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What were you pulled in for in the first place? Did you receive any other fines etc?
    Sounds like you got a right going over- were you speeding or something? Unusual for a normal checkpoint to check for bald tyres if tax insurance and NCT in place?
    I’m asking not out of nosy-ness but more that if there were other issues like speeding or careless driving etc things may not go quite so smoothly on the day if appealing the fine.

    I noticed him in my rear view mirror , I continued driving for about a mile then the blue lights came in and I pulled over .
    He asked for licence first then checked the windscreen discs which were all in order. He then "demanded" me to produce my certificate of insurance within 10 days , I told him that I had it in the car and handed it to him .
    After that he did his walk around and came back with the bald tyre spiel .
    I did not receive a penalty for anything else except the tyre .

    Just one other thing , the street named in the fixed penalty notice is incorrect. If I had continued another 200m then I would be in that street .


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    #77
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭Eleven Benevolent Elephants


    Gardaí should have to measure the tyre with a calibrated callipers and give a specific measurement of the tyre thread depth.


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    #78
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,146 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Boxcar_Willie wrote: »
    I noticed him in my rear view mirror , I continued driving for about a mile then the blue lights came in and I pulled over .
    He asked for licence first then checked the windscreen discs which were all in order. He then "demanded" me to produce my certificate of insurance within 10 days , I told him that I had it in the car and handed it to him .
    After that he did his walk around and came back with the bald tyre spiel .
    I did not receive a penalty for anything else except the tyre .

    Just one other thing , the street named in the fixed penalty notice is incorrect. If I had continued another 200m then I would be in that street .

    i wouldn't be relying on that to get you off. the judge will allow the summons to be amended there and then.


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    #79
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    Go to court bring the tire with you let the judge decide


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    #80
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,146 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bobbyy gee wrote: »
    Go to court bring the tire with you let the judge decide

    how is the judge to know that it is the same tyre?


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    #81
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    how is the judge to know that it is the same tyre?

    Just bring all 4 put your car up on blocks
    Get the garda to identify correct tire


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    #82
    chooseusername
    Registered Users Posts: 3,588 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    You must have pissed him off a bit boxcar.
    Were you blasting "king of the road"?


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    #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Boxcar_Willie wrote: »
    I noticed him in my rear view mirror , I continued driving for about a mile then the blue lights came in and I pulled over .
    .

    Did he state the reason why he pulled you over? I thought they must provide you with a reason for stopping you- maybe they don't have to but i thought they do.


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    #84
    chooseusername
    Registered Users Posts: 3,588 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Did he state the reason why he pulled you over? I thought they must provide you with a reason for stopping you- maybe they don't have to but i thought they do.
    We've had a report..blah ..blah.
    You/your car fit the description...blah..blah


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    #85
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,363 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I wonder if the Garda had one of the new Mobility App phones and happened to take a photo of the tyre in question?


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    #86
    Boxcar_Willie
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭Boxcar_Willie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Did he state the reason why he pulled you over? I thought they must provide you with a reason for stopping you- maybe they don't have to but i thought they do.


    No , his first words when he approached me was " Have you your driving licence there ?? "
    He then proceeded as above .


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    #87
    Needles73
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Needles73


    “He then "demanded" me to produce my certificate of insurance within 10 days , I told him that I had it in the car and handed it to him ......

    You shouldn’t have volunteered your insurance certificate. It was probably on the basis that it was in order he decided to delve deeper and do you on the tyre.
    He obviously was determined to get you for something. Personally I’d go to court and take my chances.


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    #88
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    Needles73 wrote: »
    You shouldn’t have volunteered your insurance certificate.

    Firstly, let me say all indications are that OP has been very harshly done by. But am not sure this is good advice?

    Surely it's not unusual for a Garda to ask for licence and insurance. I've had it myself once or twice over the years. And like the OP, if I happened to have my insurance cert in the car, I'd show it to him/her there and then. Wouldn't see the point of pretending not to have it and then having to make a separate trip to a Garda Station some other time. Particularly since our local Garda Station (rural area) is only rarely staffed, and it's a 25-minute drive to the closest one that's staffed full-time.

    Anyway, if the Garda really was determined to "do" him for something, would a promise of "yes Guard, I'll do that in the next ten days" really be enough for the Garda to then say "fair enough, on you go"?


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    #89
    Needles73
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Needles73


    It’s not normal or a good idea to have insurance certificate in the car. No issue with giving Garda my license but I wouldn’t volunteer certificate. It’s not about pretending not to be insured. I still would have opted to present it at the station.


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    #90
    Needles73
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Needles73


    Needles73 wrote: »
    It’s not normal or a good idea to have insurance certificate in the car. No issue with giving Garda my license but I wouldn’t volunteer certificate. It’s not about pretending not to be insured. I still would have opted to present it at the station,


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    #91
    Credit Checker Moose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Credit Checker Moose


    What is the issue with keeping it in the car?


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