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Discovery 3x07 - 'Unification III' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    So I enjoyed the scenes with Saru and the President, could have done with a lot more of that. And the idea of the Federation having over expanded and placed too many demands is a good one. Kind of ties back to the start of Insurrection (or Nemesis, can't remmeber which) when they were inducting new members quite quickly after the Dominion war. Other than that this was one of the most emotional episodes to date, and in my opinion not in a good way.
    • Burnhams mother in the Qowat Milat, fine I'll go along with that
    • Tilly as first officer, nope, no nada.
    • How does a recently minted ensign being the first officer not annoy at least one senior crew member
    • No problem with the science institute proceedings stuff, but too long and just not interesting
    • After ten minutes with Burnham the Romulans nearly split from the Vulcans, until Burnham takes away her request for information and now all is well again?
    • Never bothered me before this episode, but Burnham just whispers way too much in this one, which is irritating in itself, but really, really poor to be doing when making any form of presentation or argument
    • Same issues as with the third episode on Earth. Show me more of what's going on with the planet and what they're up to, less Michael saves everyone
    • I have never sighed as much and said f**k sake as much during an episode of Discovery
    • Is this the most amount of crying in any Trek episode to date?

    Hopefully this is just a necessary connector to the second half that works better when watched in one run, but I did not enjoy this at all. There were some nice callbacks to TNG and PIC, and I liked the Nimoy footage, but I can't help feel that the writer was going for a Drumhead/Measure of a Man type episode, and it's just not up to that quality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Yet again i find that this could have been one of the best. It could have covered so much ground, answered questions, and given insight to things that matter to fans
    • How does Vulcan record Spocks dissapearance? This is obviously Prime timeline so prime spock vanished right after the romulan supernova
    • How/When did reunification actually occur, and what is the status of the Romulan Singularity powered fleet
    • Why did the Vulcans believe their experiment caused the burn, this was never clarified
    • The vulcans expressed no interest in acquiring Spore Drive technology
    • If you must include Burnhams mum, ok - i need more information as to why she is now vulcan alligned- slightly touched on but not enough

    Instead we got the usual
    • Michael is such a legend - even when she is demoted shes still a legend
    • Michael is the only one who can get things done
    • Michaels mother is involved
    • The vulcans revere Michael too! She really is all that
    • Tilly, barely an ensign, is now first officer

    I find this series in general tedious, and boring. And despite the season high of episode 5, this is the weakest season so far. And i honestly dont believe discovery will last if the writers keep telling us to be interested in one character, who i started off disliking, grew to hate, and am working toward despising

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,017 ✭✭✭corkie



    Shows up 'Mikey Spock' lack of Vulcan education that she needs 'Silly' to explain to her.





    'Dr. Gabrielle Burnham' making an appearance kind of rules out the theories of her or her suit causing the burn?

    "He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him round the moons of Nibia and round the Antares maelstrom and round perdition's flames before I give him up!" - Khan quoting Moby Dick (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    Jesus christ this show.

    My new theory is that they didn't actually go to the future.

    Burnham is actually a Q who had created a Universe with herself at the center. It's called the Burnham Verse.

    This show isn't Star Trek, sure it gives fans a bit of Lip service but it's not Star Trek.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Only Michael can save the day! LOL. Well, of course.

    Tilly as first officer. Oh for ****s sake. ROFL.


    Otherwise really enjoyed the episode :)

    Vulcan/Romulans (or what do we call them now) were great. It really was "Unification III". Very good. Loved that story-line and always wanted more. Top marks on that front.

    And I just enjoyed the courtroom-drama Vulcan ceremony schtick.

    Good to get the mother-Burnham search out of the way relatively swiftly. Was worried that would drag until some last minute special effect, but it was a relatively subtle reveal and mum's role in the episode was actually worthwhile.

    Saru is a decent captain. A bit too soft though. Loses too much credibility when getting pushed around by Burnham. And appointing the ensign as first officer? Christ.

    But, I guess things are just a little easier going on a small science vessel, compared to what we're used to in other shows. We're getting more and more time with the crew anyway and that's been great. Whatever about Tilly as No.1, getting Burnham out of that role is a good thing. She can be a little more rogue now without it seeming ridiculous.


    Anyway, proper Star Trek :). Very good episode.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,017 ✭✭✭corkie


    Goodshape wrote: »
    Vulcan/Romulans (or what do we call them now) were great. It really was "Unification III". Very good. Loved that story-line and always wanted more. Top marks on that front.

    Ni'Var
    it was "a Vulcan term referring to the duality of things: two who are one, two diversities that are a unity, two halves that come together to make a whole"

    Like we don't usually refer to The Vulcans as Vulcanians, I doubt they/we will refer to them as Ni'Varians?


    Ni'Var (starship)
    ^^^ " The Ni'Var was a Vulcan Suurok-class combat cruiser that was in service with the Vulcan High Command in the mid-22nd century. The vessel was commanded by Sopek. "

    Edit: - The wiki is going through some changes.

    Vulcan (planet) or Ni'Var (planet)

    Drip feeding of clues to the burn continue.

    534252.png
    ^^^ https://youtu.be/1Suy8Ul3JMA?t=96

    "He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him round the moons of Nibia and round the Antares maelstrom and round perdition's flames before I give him up!" - Khan quoting Moby Dick (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Tilly as acting FO makes ZERO sense but this was coming since episode two. Make Nilsson FO, promote Tilly to LT. Of course not.

    "You are experienced because you jumped through a wormhole" is braindead writing.

    Can you imagine some incompetent ****ing upstart getting SVP over people with years of experience. She has ZERO leadership training. If Saru is incapacitated while on a "first response" mission and Tilly is in charge, someone please tell me how that works?

    Someone needs firing on the writing team. It pains me because I am really enjoying the reset for the show but it takes a moment of complete idiocy in the writing to undo things - two weeks ago, Georgio blinks at holograms to stop them working. Get out of it.

    EDIT: Barkley must be spinning in his grave.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Tilly as acting FO makes ZERO sense but this was coming since episode two. Make Nilsson FO, promote Tilly to LT. Of course not.

    "You are experienced because you jumped through a wormhole" is braindead writing.

    Can you imagine some incompetent ****ing upstart getting SVP over people with years of experience. She has ZERO leadership training. If Saru is incapacitated while on a "first response" mission and Tilly is in charge, someone please tell me how that works?

    Someone needs firing on the writing team. It pains me because I am really enjoying the reset for the show but it takes a moment of complete idiocy in the writing to undo things - two weeks ago, Georgio blinks at holograms to stop them working. Get out of it.

    EDIT: Barkley must be spinning in his grave.

    it reeks of fan fiction and a bunch of writers that never made it out of the valley.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 24,951 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    That's possibly the least interesting episode of the entire show so far. Little more than 40 minutes of pseudo court room drama.

    Tilly as XO is just so stupid a concept it's offensive to the viewer. I know it's a small enough crew, but there's no way there aren't other officers such as Bryce or Rhys or even Nilsson, who are way more experienced. And surely they'd want someone from the 32nd century Starfleet, who'd be familiar with the state of affairs in the galaxy, as well as Admiral Vance who'd want experienced officers in place on his secret weapon. No-one thought this through all.

    And what happened to the other long term threads? Where's Detmers PTSD gone? Is she just a nervous unstable wreck roaming the corridors? Where's the rogue AI in the ships computer gone?

    And the mother is suddenly Koat Milat? What?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Spear wrote: »
    And what happened to the other long term threads? Where's Detmers PTSD gone? Is she just a nervous unstable wreck roaming the corridors?

    I think that was intended to show that the whole crew are a little shook, rather than Detmer going mad on her own all season. And I don't really want to start defending Tilly as XO, but I'd see that as a continuation of the story thread with Detmer. She's the XO because the crew have been through enough ****, they don't need a hard-nosed 32nd century security officer suddenly in charge and barking orders at them.


    And maybe I'm alone on this one but give me court-room Trek all day long :). Last week's shooty-blast-fest was dull as dishwater for me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    Tilly the Ensign is now No1, even TNG followed rank when Troy ended up Captain. How pissed would you be after years of training and hard work your captain promotes the girl he likes to gossip with ahead of you.

    Mummy somehow made it to Vulcan and become a Ninja.

    Burnham with one speech somehow managed to nearly start a civil war and then united a planet. Must of been her Q powers, tears and whispering.

    The cats not a cat...

    Stamits has a really smug face.

    So Burnham wants to stay now. Basically she got the feeling we all got on our first day of work when we come back from our holidays.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Burnham's overreaction to any new morsel of information about the future is wearing very thin by the way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Spear wrote: »
    That's possibly the least interesting episode of the entire show so far. Little more than 40 minutes of pseudo court room drama.

    Is that because they blew the budget on planet Iceland? :pac:

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,473 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    It's not like it's Voyager where they're stranded with no link to starfleet and 2 mismatched crews, they've met up with starfleet and Saru got an actual promotion to captain. You'd think Starfleet might have an issue with the probably the most important ship they now got having tilly as fist officer and could have suggested a alternative.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    I don't agree with Tilly being a good choice for first officer generally. But I did have a good laugh out loud as she listed all the reasons she is not a good choice - matching the discussion here :) I don't think it will be permanent though. This is just temporary, Tilly is getting acting first officer because she is compliant - which is what the crew need right now. At least that is how I understood Saru.

    I enjoyed that episode. It's a shame it wasn't a bit longer and they stayed in the ship. The TNG episodes where Spock is believed to have gone rogue on Romulus and Picard has to go after him were good episodes. I guess we're supposed to take it that Spock / Burnham have more in common than we thought? I did appreciate that Burnham backed down in the end rather trying to force her way through. I'd like another visit to Vulcan and more of an in-depth view at how they are getting on there.

    The whole court room drama part was classic Trek. I mean even the Lower Decks has done a court room episode :D I also liked Vance saying "Headline - Michael Burnham is coming". Oh and not to sound like a broken record, but Discovery 1031-A looks great! Solid episode.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭GSPfan


    I swear I’m not even halfway through the episode and the Tilly stuff has me wondering if the writers are trying to annoy us.

    Additional Thoughts...

    Ok, I finished it. It was painful. That is some of the worst tv I’ve watched. No point making a list of problems as the entire episode speaks for itself. Just absolutely awful writing.

    Every part of it seemed so contrived. All done for over-dramatic effect and at the centre of it is the most unstable, unlikeable, unbearable starfleet officer ever.

    It’s just bad bad bad. Such a bloody shame.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    I enjoyed that episode. We get to hear about Vulcan and what is called now and Picard is mentioned in it and we get an explanation of wht the Federstion started to break up and crumple.

    So I wonder is the transporter room redundant now or do they still been into it like the four Vulcan Romulans seemed to with there own transporter?

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    I liked that episode. Really liked seeing Leonard Nimoy again. Good to see more Sonja Sohn too. Wouldn't mind knowing more about the Ni'Var. It great to see the show jump the 1000 years with them. Think the fact files had the split way longer in the past from TOS so it makes sense they'd be at each other. My first thought went to potential civil wars.

    That SB19 project looks like some kinda gate technology. I remember comparable technologies like the wormholes, the borg transwarp conduits and the Iconians tech. Pretty sure there were more but second guessing myself with maybe Stargate stuff.

    Anyway, right so I didn't watch the preview but caught the first second of it. I'm guessing this season is now all leading up to an episode on What caused the burn and decision that has to be made about it. I'd almost guess another bit of time travel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Slydice wrote: »
    I liked that episode. Really liked seeing Leonard Nimoy again. Good to see more Sonja Sohn too. Wouldn't mind knowing more about the Ni'Var. It great to see the show jump the 1000 years with them. Think the fact files had the split way longer in the past from TOS so it makes sense they'd be at each other. My first thought went to potential civil wars.

    That SB19 project looks like some kinda gate technology. I remember comparable technologies like the wormholes, the borg transwarp conduits and the Iconians tech. Pretty sure there were more but second guessing myself with maybe Stargate stuff.

    Anyway, right so I didn't watch the preview but caught the first second of it. I'm guessing this season is now all leading up to an episode on What caused the burn and decision that has to be made about it. I'd almost guess another bit of time travel.

    Which way? To the future or to be before the Burn sometime?

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    AMKC wrote: »
    Which way? To the future or to be before the Burn sometime?

    Going back would be 'against the law' so I'd say Michael has her ticket booked already.

    Some silly decisions being made this season.

    Enjoyed the court room bits where the Vulcans and Romulans were talking.

    Enjoyed Sárú and President talking.

    That's about it.

    Silliness.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,017 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ya know what I liked. The early half of the season where they gave us the faint hope we might learn about this crew. Detmer has been dropped, Culber sidelined again Stamets with him and Adira was just a Mcguffin. Havnt even seen LT. Highfive and his buddy in a while


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭GSPfan


    It’s more than ever just a Burnham show now.

    In season 1 you had captain Lorca, Ash Tyler and Empress Georgiou as strong lead characters with Saru and the crew sprinkled in.

    In season 2 you had Pike and Spock with Saru and the crew sprinkled in.

    This season we have..... pretty much just Burnham with Saru and the crew sprinkled in. Oh and there’s that guy Book. Yeah he’s totally not going to die at some stage just so we can see Burnham cry again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,944 ✭✭✭duffman13


    Girl grows up on Vulcan, attends the Vulcan science academy etc. Spends one year, 930 years in the future and doesn't ask Book a single question or look up anything about Vulcan or Spook? First she hears about it is when some admiral tells her. Bizarre

    Agree regarding Tilly, most underwhelming first officer ever.

    Probably my least favourite episode of the series


  • Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    [*]Tilly as first officer, nope, no nada.

    Got as far as that and I don’t think I can even watch the episode now. Ridiculous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    To be fair, I think they stressed the *acting* first officer. It's a bit of a morale booster while a real XO is sorted out, probably.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    Goodshape wrote: »
    To be fair, I think they stressed the *acting* first officer. It's a bit of a morale booster while a real XO is sorted out, probably.

    Morale boost or not, it's still ludicrous picking the most junior officer out of 80+ crew members. I wonder if maybe they're using it to set up some conflict with the Admiral? I find it hard to believe that Tilly's promotion to first officer, on a ship they are using as their only rapid response vessel, would go unremarked upon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭lapua20grain


    Breathless whispering, tilted head and a fcukin know it all that saves the universe once again I've had enough now and then they top it off with an ensign being XO, bullshyte.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,017 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Morale boost or not, it's still ludicrous picking the most junior officer out of 80+ crew members. I wonder if maybe they're using it to set up some conflict with the Admiral? I find it hard to believe that Tilly's promotion to first officer, on a ship they are using as their only rapid response vessel, would go unremarked upon.

    What's worse is everyone is so happy about it. None of the Lt. Nostories on the ship went F this being captain was my dream too


  • Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    Just watched it *sigh*.

    Sooooooo much sighing/crying/whispering, can Burnham just speak like a normal person instead of "breathing" her words.

    As someone who usually eyerolls the haters and is happy for ANY new Trek that was utter utter s**te


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,017 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Just watched it *sigh*.

    Sooooooo much sighing/crying/whispering, can Burnham just speak like a normal person instead of "breathing" her words.

    As someone who usually eyerolls the haters and is happy for ANY new Trek that was utter utter s**te

    I've tried to just judge on the merits of a Trek show and stay away from the over the top criticism but this is finally the episode that may have tipped me over to the "not real Trek" brigade


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