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BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Awful that drivers and passengers are targeted like that still. Predictable though. The same places again and again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭Daith


    Yep. Same in Finglas and St Helena's Road (mostly). Almost wish the 40 just went down Wellmount Road and skipped that part. And the Luas will be going through it. Wish something could be done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    Yeah no, that area has been notoriously crap since I moved here. I'm surprised these issues have only been highlighted now and not within like the first month of those routes though



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    The thing is really the problems only really occur after 6 or 7 in the evening. During the day most of the routes are fairly peaceful bar the odd junkie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭A2000


    Far too late in the morning to be term time departures. Looks like the 60 is being set up to fail.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭A2000


    There's also a public meeting in leixlip tonight about the deterioration in service since bus connects https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02zPeGjqYBbvkNaA3jenHjpXJWkYAazqdgAwanLc82dfh7DSYQHs9Z95gmCU6d2V9kl&id=100058280641286

    Post edited by A2000 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The problem is that there is a confluence of problems that people are blaming on BusConnects.

    Buses not showing up and real time information not working isn’t a BusConnects issue. They’re happening across the entire network and are down to the ongoing staffing issues and IT problems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,224 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Is the plan still to roll out virtually all of the bus connects routed next year? Do we have the drivers and buses to do that?

    On infrastructure presumably the clongriffin corridor is due to get planning permission by the end of Q1 2023. Haven't seen any tendering or asked consultation on it though. Lots of work go be done. It seems to me that the whole project is becoming a little bit dated already, as the rest of Europe moves towards low car-zero car design we're widening roads and retaining turning lanes, and even multi lane through roads in parts at the expense of footpaths, or bus and cycle segregation. I hope that we don't end up with in 10 years time with all the city's arterial roads freshly rebuilt to a design that's out of kilter with current best practice.


    The clontarf to city scheme currently under construction is a good example of what I mean. Designed to standards a decade or more ago, it incorporates 6 lane roads and miniscule footpaths with no additional greenspace and no deterrent to the current park-where-you-like set up



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    BusConnects network has two more years to roll out per the plan, until December 2024.

    You’re asking an impossible question about the availability of staff - who knows?

    As it stands GAI was still cancelling services yesterday, and so have been Dublin Bus.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    I have applied a number of times to Dublin Bus in the last while and they keep rejecting me in no uncertain terms have a bus licence and a bit of experience and all.

    It all seems a bit rich considering there's an industry wide shortage of drivers. Compared to operators in the UK who it appears will take anyone and everyone once there's an arse to sit in the drivers seat and can drive to a reasonably competent standard they're happy.

    It seems DB are looking for something more and I'm not the only one I know some who've worked as bus drivers in other countries and still get fobbed off by DB. For example a chap I know worked for Arriva London and was rejected by DB.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    I don't know if that's reasonable to say, but I think DB and especially GAI prefer unexperienced drivers who then can be trained and supported in getting a D licence as operators can pay them a lower starting wage. It's easier to make less experienced drivers to commit and stick around for longer rather than get a year of experience and leave. I don't think it's very feasible to desperately get anyone knowing that they will leave soon...

    I also could guess that operators might possibly have issues moneywise? The NTA provide funding, but diesel prices jumped drastically within a 12 months' time. I wonder, how often the NTA review and adjust a funding? Can't it be that the operators better off cancelling services rather than paying higher wages to attract more drivers? I would be very difficult to increase the salaries to new drivers but avoid increasing to current drivers... That's a huge number of employees and an amount of money to spare from the budget... It seems to me the whole driver shortage thing is being dealt ineffectively. That shows it's either being done deliberately or simply a huge mismanagement, or a bit of both.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Things must be fairly desperate with DB saw an inspector driving the 16 yesterday wearing the peaked cap and all



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I have been looking at the comments section of that post by the Social Democrats about their survey being completed on the C-Spine routes in Leixlip.

    While reading them; there is a comment from one lady there who has a friend who uses multiple bus routes while travelling from Tallaght to UCD to be there at 9am.

    The solution to that problem on paper is that the young person's friend will have to take the S6 from to Tallaght to Blackrock Dart Station via UCD.

    However; we still do not have a start date for the Southern Orbitals to commence for BusConnects Dublin posted here on boards yet which is the phase after the G-Spine. The G-Spine will begin to run services, which are the G1, G2 & 60, from this Sunday.

    What is the story here? Is there any news for the Southern Orbitals to start soon.

    Also would the issues with driver shortages at Go Ahead Ireland, who will run the S6 route, be sorted out by the time these new routes get rolled out to their passengers?

    Post edited by dublinman1990 on


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Last I heard, S2, S4, S6, S8, L25 and 74 were all supposed to launch on December 4th. That's from over two months ago now. That could still be the case but I'm still trying to find out what the latest is. Works are starting now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well at least some reality is setting in.

    The uplift in frequency is significant with these services, and if the operators cannot staff the current services, there wouldn’t be a hope of covering these too.

    Hopefully the staff can be found and retained in the meantime.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Not surprised. Hopefully they can get it sorted by then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    @LXFlyer can you link or share a map of the city centre routes which avoid college green?

    Have BC officially decided to avoid college green or not? Only the older map is available on BC site



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The map was in the report on submissions to the 2019 consultation. Page 26.

    While described as indicative, I think that you can be pretty sure that this will be implemented based on everything we are hearing.

    Buses (A, E and F Spines) and trams will still pass along the eastern side of College Green to/from Grafton Street.



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    Thanks yeah. I was just thinking about the Rathmines buses. They'll be returning to their older routes which were changed during Luas cross city works I think?

    From my perspective on the Northside, it is super handy that the 14, 15 go down George's street. From the Southside perspective, I would personally prefer the route through George's street. It will be a huge change for people in Rathmines etc.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Well DB management are getting what they deserve due to the way they treat applicants. If they improved the recruitment process to something similar to what private operators they wouldn't have as much trouble getting drivers.

    GAI aren't like that from what I believe but they treat their staff like sh1t once they're already in so again they too are getting what they deserve. It's a pity for people trying to use the service but hey treat potential and serving staff like sh1t and that's what happens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It's not that big a change to be honest. I'm sure they'll cope! The Camden Street-Georges Street route is a nightmare in the evenings with taxis stopping here, there and everywhere.

    It will re-instate better connections with the CBD area from the southside which were lost when the buses were re-routed.

    I'd be far more concerned with the loss of connectivity between the Rathmines corridor and the Malahide Road corridor to be honest. It's a busy through route that will now require people to connect with buses from the D Spine at O'Connell Bridge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    With the best will in the world, it's not just having a licence that people are judged on to do the job. Perhaps there was something else that went against you.

    As a general comment, I would far prefer that the company were looking at the overall suitability of candidates, rather than just simply whether they held a licence or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    I'm wondering if we're taking too many buses away from the core area? If you exclude the less frequent local routes (23, 24, 73), the core restaurant, bar and club center will be largely void of buses.

    Also Capel Street is terribly connected with PT and Bus Connects was designed before this street was pedestrianised. Note no buses go down Dorset and the Jervis Luas is not beside the Capel St junction.

    Removing cars from these core areas is obviously fantastic, but I've a feeling we're leaving them badly connected with PT...




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Well how come someone I know who used to work as a London bus driver was also rejected. Generally in business when recruiting people if you have a load of people applying for a small amount of positions you can be choosy on who you select but if there's a high amount vacancies and few people applying then you can't afford that luxury. DB still think they have it.

    Licence + experience and still rejected as I say go to the UK and apply for a bus driving position with any of the large operators (Stagecoach, Go-Ahead, Arriva, Metroline, First Group etc.) and you'll nearly be hired there and then from what he was telling me as they're all desperate for drivers. Some of them don't even do a driving assessment.

    What's the difference between Ireland and the UK absolutely nothing apart from a few subtle differences and bus operators that take a far more business like approach to recruitment and selection.

    I get the sense though that DB is still seen as a job for life whereas in the UK drivers are seen as just numbers.

    Post edited by mikeybhoy on


  • Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    The DB interview process can be a bit random, like she's doing you a favour by interviewing you. I know people who did perfect driving assessments, but didn't get in until their third or fourth attempt at applying. If you want to drive for DB, it can help hugely if you go to GAI first. As a long-term option, the pay isn't as good, and their shift patterns don't suit everyone (in my opinion, that's a far bigger problem than pay), but I wouldn't have said they treat their staff badly. It's one of those places where staff seem to either last for 4 years or 4 months. Loads of newbies and loads of long-termers and very few in between.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    If people are applying bus driver roles with the operator because of new routes starting up due to BusConnects and get rejected because of their connections with CIE etc. Is this not a major indicator that BusConnects is being set up to fail on purpose?

    The recruitment process culture within DB must be very demoralising at present. I do think there is an overwhelming sense of irony coming from within the company in that if they are not able to recruit more new drivers as hoped to help them operate these new routes for the new incoming bus system. They would really find it to be a real struggle if they cannot be able to recruit the level of new bus drivers needed to operate the new services.

    Are they are going to have further problems down the line with recruitment of drivers for the Southern Orbitals phase of the project?

    DB are becoming the bigger loser here in trying to operate all of these new routes in the near future. They currently have about 90% of the routes given to them by the NTA to operate the PSO contract.

    What If 2024 comes along and Dublin Bus have come across more issues with retention of staff becoming worse within the next 2 years when they are trying to renew that crucial contract for bus routes within the GDA. What happens then; could they lose a larger amount of routes then expected by having them awarded to GAI as a way to some how to address clearing up their staff retention issues?

    Post edited by dublinman1990 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There can be any number of reasons why an employer won’t hire someone.

    Ability, competence, qualifications, personality, attitude, suitability, etc.

    None of us can say why someone wasn’t hired - that’s down to the interviewers.

    But I certainly do not think that the company should just hire anyone and everyone that walks in for an interview. That’s just asking for trouble. You want people that are suited to the role, and who are likely to stay with the company.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer



    Well in reality where do you expect the routes to go? Unfortunately there aren't many options available.

    Once the decision was taken regarding the pedestrianisation of College Green, then the only options that avoid massive doglegs are the ones on that map, and which also avoid turns at O'Connell Bridge, which is to try and facilitate longer pedestrian crossings there.

    I don't think that the majority of passengers would thank you for imposing a dogleg from Georges Street, along Dame Street, Lord Edward Street, Christchurch Place, Winetavern Street and then back east along the Quays onto their journeys. Remember that it is likely that Parliament Street is going to be pedestrianised too.

    The Spines do need to intersect around O'Connell Bridge in order to facilitate connections.

    The 73 will likely use Winetavern Street to and from High Street as it will have to get to the Quays.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    Yeah I understand this. If the main objective is bus connections near O'Connell Bridge, and you also want to eliminate turning on O'Connell Bridge, then indeed, you are very limited.

    The original plans for College Green assumed buses would use Dame St as a destination with a turning loop on the street. The current plans are very different and I've seen no public discussion about it.

    This huge portion of core city centre will be almost entirely void of Public Transport. I am not suggesting major overhaul of the wider plan but surely this is worthy of discussion?



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