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Bogus Lithuanian Clothing Charity Collectors

  • 24-07-2006 10:25pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    There has been an upsurge in Bogus Lithuanian charity collectors in Ireland, they are now active in Galway.

    While warnings about this scam have been issued in the UK in the recent past the same has not happened here yet.

    http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/Article389.htm

    The m/o is the same as in the UK. It will even mention a website for this 'charity' . They cannot LEGALLY call themselves a charity in Ireland because they are not REGISTERED AS A CHARITY in Ireland. You will be asked in a flyer to have a bag of clothes ready for the poor Rwandans or whatever.

    The feckers check the bags for good stuff and will dump the rest over your neighbours hedge so the community warden can find the rubbish with your nametag on it :( . Give your old clothes to a reputable charity like Enable Ireland instead .

    The poor Rwandans get nothing of course and have their names sullied by these scumbags to boot :( .


«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Gillo


    In fairness Irish people have been doing this for years.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    gillo wrote:
    In fairness Irish people have been doing this for years.

    Most Irish charity collectors are genuine and anyway they give you an alternative drop off point like a shop in the nearest sizeable town not a lithuanian website .

    I have had Irish 'collectors' come to the door and ask for clothing but not pretend it was going to / for Rwanda but that it was for themselves or the 'chilter'. Thats different surely.

    Here is a further warning from the scots police

    http://news.scotsman.com/glasgow.cfm?id=1354372004

    and northern england

    http://www2.walsall.gov.uk/newsdocs/NewsArticle.asp?NewsId=2289


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭Sizzler


    Im seeing about 3 flyers a month now from such "charities". Ive yet to see any people leave stuff out though around my area, I think most people have copped on :D

    Theres usually a mobile number given with the flyer though, so next time you get one ring it and say you're going to report them !

    On a similar note there was two eastern european people "working" on behalf of concern in our area some months ago (although they neglected to get permission from Concern!) and they knocked on the wrong door, lady left them at the door to go her her purse ahem, and went upstairs and called the cops, cue a cop car 5 mins later and the 2 spunkers were nicked :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Celticfire


    Sizzler wrote:
    Im seeing about 3 flyers a month now from such "charities".

    Sometimes I can get up to 3 bags a week coming through the letterbox.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Sponge Bob wrote:
    They cannot LEGALLY call themselves a charity in Ireland because they are not REGISTERED AS A CHARITY in Ireland.
    Really, is there any regulation at all of charities here?
    AFAIK there's nothing stopping you calling the "SpongeBob Intoxicating Beverages Fund - Please Give Generously" a charity and going out collecting money, the Revenue will in all likelihood refuse to grant you charitable tax exemption but that's a different thing. Anyway, that only bothers people who care about tax compliance...
    I believe PrimeTime did a programme on charities 3 - 4 years ago saying basically the field was wide open and not much if at all has changed since then.
    There are a number of respectable looking charities out there who eat up rather too much of the funds they collect on "administration".

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭Hitchhiker's Guide to...


    ninja900 wrote:
    Really, is there any regulation at all of charities here?

    simple answer - no, not really

    according to the Revenue Commissioners: "there is no legal framework for the registration of charities in Ireland"

    http://www.revenue.ie/leaflets/faq_chy.pdf

    it does make you wonder, doesn't it?!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭campers


    In Limerick, I get several of those stickers from bogus "charities" each week...

    Who are they fooling anyway:
    • No registered charity number
    • Phoney company registration number (...of no relevance for a charity anyway)
    • Only a mobile number
    • Collection day is PREPRINTED on the stickers... so either they have 7 different rolls of stickers, or they employ Santa Claus to cover every house in a single day

    ....getting sick of them now.... them and junk mail and free "newspapers".


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭vector


    the fake charities tend to only supply stickers, while the real ones supply bags


  • Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    Just ripped up one of those stickers. The website on it was for something to do with mitsubishi in Italian:confused:

    Can these people really be making money from sifting thru peoples cast off clothes? Honestly there must be easier ways to scam people?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    seems they are leafleting everywhere in Galway at present .

    these fake clothing charities do not supply bags (yet) , that is correct.


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  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Samson


    KatieK wrote:
    Can these people really be making money from sifting thru peoples cast off clothes? Honestly there must be easier ways to scam people?

    I remember listening to Liveline a while ago, and this came up:
    There was a discussion about these so-called charity clothes collections and one particular woman rang in to say that she had just been to Paris on holiday and whilst browsing through the used clothing stalls at a flea market, happened to come across an item of clothing that she had given to one of these "charity" collections some time previously, for sale.
    Joe was a little dubious, but the lady was positive that it was her item of clothing, so Joe asked her how she could be so sure.
    She said there were 3 distinguishing things -
    1. It was St. Bernard (Dunne's Stores) branded, which would be rare enough for Paris.
    2. It had a distinctive mark/flaw somewhere on the inside.
    3. Her child's initials were on the care label.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Samson wrote:
    I remember listening to Liveline a while ago, and this came up:
    There was a discussion about these so-called charity clothes collections and one particular woman rang in to say that she had just been to Paris on holiday and whilst browsing through the used clothing stalls at a flea market, happened to come across an item of clothing that she had given to one of these "charity" collections some time previously, for sale.
    Joe was a little dubious, but the lady was positive that it was her item of clothing, so Joe asked her how she could be so sure.
    She said there were 3 distinguishing things -
    1. It was St. Bernard (Dunne's Stores) branded, which would be rare enough for Paris.
    2. It had a distinctive mark/flaw somewhere on the inside.
    3. Her child's initials were on the care label.
    I don't see what the problem is here. Better to see the clothes getting used than filling up a landfill somewhere.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    RainyDay wrote:
    Better to see the clothes getting used than filling up a landfill somewhere.

    Most ARE landfilled.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    My comment was specifically about them ending up for sale elsewhere. I really doubt that there is widespread landfilling of this stuff. If they are landfilling legally, they are paying the waste charges, which is likely to be punitive. If they a repeatedly fly-tipping, all it takes is a call to the Litter Wardens (maybe with a mobile phone picture) to get this sorted. I doubt if this is happening on an ongoing, widespread basis.

    I did hear that many of the 'charities' are simply recycling and/or selling the clothes - so what, imho. The householder has got rid of something they didn't want.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭netwhizkid


    KatieK wrote:
    Just ripped up one of those stickers. The website on it was for something to do with mitsubishi in Italian:confused:

    Can these people really be making money from sifting thru peoples cast off clothes? Honestly there must be easier ways to scam people?


    Ah crap, I feel truly conned, I gave away a lot of good clothes to these guys honestly thinking they were for real charitable donations, I washed them and all first, about three black garbage bags full. Those nasty f*ckers, Oh well don't blame me I done all I could to persuade people to vote No2Nice.

    Attached is the sticker I received, obviously the same one as KatieK received. Funnily enough, I have never received one myself as I live out the country but they are always thrown into one of the investment properties I own in the village though.

    It was thrown in about three weeks ago. I "donated" :mad: my good old clothes about two months ago, I am so mad now as their was Armani T-shirts and Abercrombie & Fitch etc that I no longer wore and that cost alot of money many I picked up while in New York for one of my little splurges in recent years.

    I will tell my relations who are holidaying in the house for the next 3 weeks to challenge them if the come around again.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    same sticker as Galway but with a .lt website instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭MOH


    Acccording to www.cro.ie, the company number on the sticker is registered to 'Hand Collection Service Limited' in Rathfarnham in Dublin, registered last December. So if it is a scam somebody's gone to the trouble of setting up a legit company anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭ircoha


    Acccording to www.cro.ie, the company number on the sticker is registered to 'Hand Collection Service Limited' in Rathfarnham in Dublin, registered last December. So if it is a scam somebody's gone to the trouble of setting up a legit company anyway.

    A simple case of identity theft


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 Doubt.It


    In Galway here. I've received the yellow sticker as in the image linked above, the only difference being that it has a different Lithuanian web address - www.vgn.remo.lt instead of www.icn.lt. This however is also nonexistent - to be precise, it's a 403. I'm guessing no such page ever existed. Though Remo.lt is real, it looks like it's just an ISP.

    You know what made me suspicious here? The lack of a name for the charity. Charities are normally, well, called something... Also the way Chernobyl was thrown in. I suspect they think most people lump these countries in together.

    As people have said, there's no real problem with selling used clothing to raise money. The question is whether the money actually goes to charity, or into someone's pockets. I can't be 100% sure this is a scam, but God it stinks of it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Its a scam. They are not registered as a charity in ireland and are not legally allowed to call themselves a charity here. The ISP probably deleted the page in response to police queries.

    They drive around on the day they mentioned in a black bmw and a transit van and check the bags first to see if they want the clothes .

    Give your surplus clothing to Enable Ireland who have a load of bring banks around Galway or to Vincent de Paul. That requires getting off your arse and bringing it to them I am sorry to tell you :(


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    it is stange they must travel aroudn the cities

    http://www2.limerickpost.ie/fullnews.elive?id=14&category=news

    However, when Limerick City Council were provided with the names of eight clothing collections for which we have fliers, only one, the Urgent Clothing Appeal (operating through a company called Hand Collection) appeared on the council�s list of waste collection permits.

    a search for hand colection services
    http://euro.recycle.net/trade/aa1044551.html


    a search for Gytis Kacenauskas
    Asylum seekers face appeal deadline tomorrow
    Gytis Kacenauskas (Lithuania) and Maria Todorova (Bulgaria) explain their situation, while Sr Joan Roddy is concerned at the overall picture

    * none of the companies listed had the a required waste collection permit from Limerick City Council although one company, Hand Collection Service Limited, who collect on behalf of Caritas, has applied for a license.

    I think I looked that up before and they be only semi legit one??


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 Doubt.It


    Unfortunately the news story your search found dates from 2003, so it could be a different Gytis Kacenauskas. Well, it could... The link to the actual streaming media doesn't seem to work anymore.

    But Caritas, the charity that Hand Collection claim to work on behalf of, sound familiar because they are a big international Catholic organization known by that name worldwide.

    Except of course in Ireland, where we know them as Trócaire...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭SouperComputer


    Sometimes I can get up to 3 bags a week coming through the letterbox.

    Yep, when I was living in Clondalkin I was getting about three a week over a period of two years. Annoying to say the least


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,129 ✭✭✭Nightwish


    I got 2 in the door today. One with a company number 2184994A, which I checked with the Company Registration Office, and turned out to be a bogus number. The other is from a charity called Second Life, based in Ukraine. I checked with the Revenue Commissioners, and there is no charity with that name, nor with the number on the sticker.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    set the guards on them


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    See today's Irish Times for an interesting article on this issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭bambam


    RainyDay wrote:
    See today's Irish Times for an interesting article on this issue.

    Testing charities on your doorstep

    Doorstep collections of goods are lucrative for charities. But how can you tell the bogus from the genuine, asks Shane Hegarty

    The first time Philip Elliott collected bags of donated clothes, curtains and bed linen from doorsteps of a north Co Dublin estate a couple of months ago, he says that he was waved down by men in two vans. Three men got out of them, pierced his tyre, took the bags, and told him not to come back. This was their area.

    Recently, after travelling from his home in Co Down to collect in Co Kildare, four men stopped him, pushed him up against his van and told him not to come here again. This was their area, they said, adding: "Don't come back to the South."

    One gang, he says, consisted of Irish men, while the other was made up of non-nationals. In between, there were phone calls to his house, warning him against collecting door-to-door. But he continues to pick up unwanted goods for the Northern Irish-based Belarussian Chernobyl Children's Charity.

    "I'm not easily scared, and these boys aren't doing this for nothing. There must be money in it for them, so there must be money to be made for the charities, and if we can make a hole in it, it will really help."

    The world of the door-to-door charity is a lucrative one, and one in which you can't always be sure if the van taking the bag from your doorstep belongs to a legitimate charity or to a bogus one likely to sell the clothes on for profit - often to eastern Europe. Increasingly, there is an extra element: organised thieves who are taking the bags and selling the contents in car-boot sales.

    What should be a feel-good aspect of modern life, an "everybody wins" situation in which householders get rid of unwanted goods and help the less well-off, has become a honeypot for fraudsters. It has become enough of a problem that at least one local authority has begun staking out housing estates in the hope of catching fraudulent collectors.

    Charity leaflets have become a familiar sight in Irish letter boxes, a mix of the convincing and the suspect. The more carefully crafted fakes will contain authentic-looking charity numbers, phone numbers and a promise that the clothes will go to people in an underdeveloped country. Yet, there is no registration of Irish charities and the English numbers featured are not always traceable. The phone numbers given may either not connect or lead to pay-as-you-go mobiles with no message service, so that they cannot be tracked later.

    The Irish Times recently attempted to verify a selection of leaflets dropped through letterboxes in north Co Dublin. Of eight - promising to send goods to, amongst others, African orphans, Eastern European children, and "under-developed countries, to improve their lives and welfare", only two could be confirmed as legitimate UK charities, although one of those did not return calls, and one as a genuine Irish charity. The rest of the phone numbers led only to dead ends, and one leaflet had no information other than a promise that the clothes or bed linen left out would go to Africa, and that the bags should be left out on Wednesday morning.

    All that is not to say that those organisations collecting the bags are not legitimate - only that it wasn't possible to verify that they are.Given the number of leaflets in circulation, there are relatively few complaints made. The Garda press office says it is unaware of anyone being arrested for an offence specifically related to charity bags.

    Yet charities such as Enable and Oxfam certainly are unhappy, as are legitimate charity shops. The cashing in by fraudsters on the doorstep collection market is having a direct impact on the amount of goods being received by genuine charities. In the UK, where the Office of Fair Trading has run a public awareness campaign, the Association of Charity Shops has estimated that such fraud costs its members £1 million (€1.5m) a year. There have also been suggestions of paramilitary involvement in scams in the North.

    It has also flourished in the grey areas of legislation, which does not currently require charities to be registered - although there is a list of those which receive tax breaks. There has also been uncertainty over where these bags stand under waste-collection laws.

    Only recently have local authorities' waste-enforcement offices decided that, although the items are supposedly going for re-use, once they are being "thrown out" they should be considered waste and that collectors should first apply for a permit to do so.

    "Over the past 12 to 18 months, there has been an increase in door-to-door collections carried out by commercial rag merchants asking for unwanted clothing, etc," says Paul Dunphy of Oxfam. "There has been concern raised by the general public and in the media around the legitimacy of these commercial door-to-door collections and that the public are being given the impression that the money raised from the sale of the stock collected by these organisations goes to charity when in many instances it does not." This has not dissuaded the charity from continuing door-to-door collections, as it is currently engaged in its Clear ur Gear campaign.

    "We would advise the public if they want to be sure that their donation of stock is benefiting a charity they should either take it to their local Oxfam shop, other charity shop or only give it to those charities that carry out door-to-door collections and whose collection material bears the Irish Charity Shop Association logo. The logo will read Irish Charity Shops Association and will include a picture of a clothes hanger," advises Dunphy.

    Attitudes on the problem vary between local authorities, but Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown County Council has become particularly active in cracking down on bogus waste collectors, a category in which it includes charity scams. It has even begun to stake out areas in which it knows collections are due to take place, although no one has yet been apprehended. However, its environment department has noticed an increase in the number of bags being dumped, with anecdotal evidence of systematic stealing of bags from doorsteps.

    Given that leaflets name the time at which people should leave their goods on the doorstep, and give two or three days notice, it makes things very easy for an enterprising thief.

    "The evidence points to this being a more widespread problem than we had thought," says Aidan Conroy of Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown County Council's waste enforcement office. "Without having any firm evidence yet to back this up, it would seem that much of it is destined for the car-boot sale market."

    Part of the problem is that it remains difficult to nail down swindlers. If waste is found in a charity bag, it may have been stolen, illegally dumped or might have been left out by a householder unaware that the "charity" is a fake. Conroy says that the county council is considering setting up an information phone line so people can double-check the veracity of any leaflet claiming to represent a charity. "It would be to educate people, and not some form of entrapment."

    As for Philip Elliott, he says that he has seen enough around the housing estates to convince him that this is a good way of raising funds for the Belarussian Chernobyl Children's Charity, and will not be deterred. It is a profitable business, and he believes that benefits still outweigh the difficulties. At the moment, he collects with the assistance of an independent company that has the required permit, but insists that he would pick up every bag himself if necessary.

    "We've set a target of raising money," he adds "and in the long term this is an easy way of doing it."


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 Doubt.It


    Darn, they beat me! My article will be in the Galway City Tribune on Friday.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 karlmarcks


    RainyDay wrote:
    My comment was specifically about them ending up for sale elsewhere. I really doubt that there is widespread landfilling of this stuff. If they are landfilling legally, they are paying the waste charges, which is likely to be punitive. If they a repeatedly fly-tipping, all it takes is a call to the Litter Wardens (maybe with a mobile phone picture) to get this sorted. I doubt if this is happening on an ongoing, widespread basis.

    I did hear that many of the 'charities' are simply recycling and/or selling the clothes - so what, imho. The householder has got rid of something they didn't want.

    Your old clothes can go to many real charities. If instead they go to scammers, you have helped the scammers to steal from the beneficiaries of those real charities. That's why you shouldn't.

    Many charities are reporting declines in their income dur to the activities of the scammers of various kinds...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,953 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    There's obviously a huge market for this stuff. Central and Eastern europe is riddled with shops selling second-hand clothing from the older EU countries. Sometimes, at first glance, you can't tell that some of the stuff is second-hand. It's more obvious when the brand name is the same as that of a chain, M&S etc...


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